Since a large part of the US population is urban, what are some strategies to survive Y2k?

For my family, we are setting up to hibernate for a few months; have 55 gallon drums plus spare plastic garbage cans to fill with water and catch roof rain water from gutters, plenty of food, medication stockpiled, extra and warm clothes and down bedding, wood stove, butane and propane stoves, plywood to patch broken windows, and are armed to dissuade or derail attackers. Also extra food for barter with close neighbors should they knock and are identified through peephole as such. After safety restored, 3 wheel bicycle with large basket plus two wheel bicycle for transportation to lake for water to use with Katalyn filter. Other ideas?

-- Leslie (***@***.net), April 06, 1999

Answers

Leslie: What you have here is fine. If you'd like some other ideas, go to my website at http://www.y2ksurvive.com for more information. It's all free.

-- cody varian (cody@y2ksurvive.com), April 06, 1999.

Forgot. Also have compost toilet and supplies from Lehmans.

-- Leslie (***@***.net), April 06, 1999.

Just a couple of thoughts:

Use your propane/kero heat first, as wood will create smoke and may draw attention to you.

Be sure to filter the runoff water before using - roofs collect bird and animal droppings. Be able to collect it without showing yourself.

Leave your windows broken, forget the plywood. The more looted/abandoned your place looks, the better.

Plan on hibernating for a year.

Ditch the peephole. Someone will eventually send a bullet your way through it if they know you have food. If you're going to hole up, HOLE UP. If not, and you indicate by your statement re: sharing with "close" neighbors that you aren't, be prepared for a stream of friends-of-relatives-of-neighbors as well as your "close" neighbors. Some of them will have guns and be willing to use them. More will know how to burn you out. Personally, in an urban environment, I'd act like I wasn't even there, or if I was, that I had NO food. A good technique would be to start badgering your neighbors for food after a week or so. A reply of "Go away, I'm dying" is a good response to any knock after week three or so.

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but if you choose to remain in an urban environment, you've got to understand that it's going to be dicey at best, and unsurvivable at worst.

-- sparks (wireless@home.com), April 06, 1999.

Open pollinated seeds, if you can garden. Local Rx. has them 10pkts for $1.00. As much tp. as you can. Got lake? don't forget fish hooks etc.

-- && (&&@&&.&), April 07, 1999.

Sparks, thanks for your perspective. I tend care about others and can see how this might be risky. We were considering a barter only and direct neighbor only but perhaps we'll think it over again with your perspective. We've been stocking extra TP and also sugar for barter. I hadn't thought of hibernating for a year. We'd probably have to venture out for lake water to filter after a few months. We figured the 3 wheel bicycle to haul water and the bicycle to guard the water. We have fishing gear too. Thanks everyone for your contributions to this discussion. All thoughts are much appreciated

-- Leslie (***@***.net), April 07, 1999.

Leslie, what is source for a three-wheel bicycle? Great ideas, thanks for the post.

-- quietly lurking (quietly@preparing.com), April 07, 1999.

It is always difficult to judge how to prepare for Y2K in any event but to live in the city and have a life while bugging out seems a tad harsh. What are your risks? Some folk will have water problems but not the cold. Some may have family members that are a problem. What about where you live? Do you have a mortgage? How bad will it really be?
 I am not  a city person. A matter of fact I like being away from the city. But my first concern would be security. Gang infested places would be tough. It would not be long till civil disobedience occurred. Nothing like bored people to get things happening. I would be out of there. No water? Do you live around any fresh water you would use? If not then I would be talking to your water supplier. If they brush you off without a detailed and timely assessments of their plans I would be out of there. What about your power company. Are they communicating their remediation? Have they been at least two years into it? Are they communicating directly with the phone and gas companies? If not I would be out of there.
 If the water and power and civil disobedience occurred, would you be able to live life in some form of safety and security where you are at? The first step is to make a commitment to stay or to move. Moving during possible chaos would be pretty impossible. This brings to mind a gentleman named Tom Benjamin and his Toms take.   There had been heated discussions on weather it was to late to move last fall. I am happy to say that folks have successfully relocated and by contributing to the host community and being befriended.
 That time may have past. But that is for another thread. May I suggest that folk read up on the icestorm in Quebec. There is nothing like reading from others experiences to give a person an idea of what it would be like with no power for weeks.

Personally I would think that preparing for the city or the country has to be viewed as to the risks and benefits of the location and making plans accordingly. And I would think that you have the right idea Leslie.

Here is some reading material about the ice storm.

 Montreal Ice Storm Ecological Disaster Hits Quebec Ontario New Brunswick New York Vermont New Hampshire and Maine

 The anatomy of Ice Storm 1998 - part 1 of 3

There is one thing on the internet though. It is hard to say how to help people when you have no idea if they are in a house or not. Or where you are at. Always remember what are your risks. Those are the problems you have to fix.

Oh and don't forget to have lots of books, tools, games - cards, music, a hobby, and something useful to add to the benifit to the community. If you don't have community you don't have a place to "live".

It should be noted that there are rural survivalists, and urban survivalists. Think about that. The Site below is a Christian site that discribes plans on urban survival.

Urban Survival - Y2KChaos The Y2K Survival Site

Here is a interesting quote from the author's (Minister) elder;

>>>>>>>>>
ONE OF MY ELDERS PUT IT THIS WAY

"Our Church is built on the San Andreas Fault and in the middle
of 100,000 poor people. And on the edge of about 6 million
more poor people in the midst of 12 million of people who make
up one of the most immoral and corrupt areas on earth. If we're
not ready for a large public, social catastrophe, and if we're not
ministering to all those around us who have faced private
civilization-ending catastrophes in their own life, how do we
think we are prepared to serve our Lord under any
circumstances good or bad?
>>>>>>>>>>

Would your family be ready?

My two bits for now.

Brian

-- Brian (imager@ampsc.com), April 07, 1999.

I checked out Cody's site and thought this was interesting.

Y2K Survive Big Chill

As you read this the first thing to remember is dress warm and that is your best defence in the cold. Snowsuits, thick wool socks and a warm hat, and a person can take alot of cold. The second, if you have a woodstove use it. I would rather be in a shed with a woodstove than in a cold house. You get the point. But it is still better to have a plan. Better yet have some "tests" preformed. The idea being used to setting up in the event of an emergency of one sort or another is just good sense. Specially if folk have family.

-- Brian (imager@ampsc.com), April 07, 1999.

Quietly lurking,

We got the three wheel bicycle with the large basket between the two back wheels at a local bicycle shop. At the time, they only had one in stock and it was sold and hadn't been picked up yet. They ordered us one and it came in about two weeks. We got the bicycles last summer, in August.

-- Leslie (***@***.net), April 07, 1999.

Brian,

Thank you for your thoughts. Moving is not an option. My husband is 60 and I have MS. When I asked him if he was willing to die to stay, he said he was. I love him and am not physically able to survive alone in the country. I live in a metro area of about two million. I have two lakes and a resevoir within a mile. The climate is rainy in winter with occasional short-lived snow. I have family spread out around the area and an elderly mother down the street. I have walkie- talkies to remain in communication with her but she will stay here initally until things are safe for her to go home. You're right, the decision to stay or leave is a gut-wrenching one. Assessing my family vulnerabilities as well as the risks of my location has been very challenging. Bottom line, "stay and potentially die" issue had to be faced and be dealt with. For me, leave and die seemed more likely. Oh, I have a large university hospital and ER within a mile too. I think the issue of assessing family vulnerabilities is important, in addition to risks of location. There are a lot of people with medical vulnerability that would like to survive. My doctors were more than willing to give me extra prescriptions to aid stockpiling. I had to do triage on my meds and finances. Survival of the fittest is often described on this web as physical fitness. I am very fit mentally and emotionally. In fact, I think facing my medical issues made it easier to grasp and emotionally come to grips with Y2K, and at least sound warning to neighbors and friends. I survive now by being proactive, intelligent, emotionally resilient (so I'm told)and a fighter. I'm determined enough to somehow survive Y2k...if it is at all possible. I'm also at peace that it might not be.

-- Leslie (***@***.net), April 07, 1999.

I am new to this forum, but not new to the y2k issue. The City of Poway has a real audio conference at http://www.realvoices.com/y2k/townmeeting.html given by a survivalist training group that is has been reoriented for urban survival. Pretty stark, basic info., but I found it phsychologically calming. It gave me some important knowledge I didn't have that allowed me to feel less vulnerable and dependent upon modern technology for my basic needs. May I suugest it?

-- marsh (armstrng@sisqtel.net), April 07, 1999.

Marsh -

That must have been the talk by the folks from "Conniry's Native Skills & Wilderness School". I'm sorry I couldn't make that one - it looked very interesting.

If anyone's interested, there's a link to the Conniry site from the "Y2K Links and Resources" selection on the Yourdon home page.

Or just click here: Conniry's Native Skills & Wilderness School

-- Mac (sneak@lurk.hid), April 07, 1999.

Leslie

 It sounds like you live in Seattle. You have the commitment to live where you are at so that is accomplished. You have resources at hand and you are emotionally and mentally strong. These are good attributes.

 Let us not assume that it is easy to live in the bush. It is not. If your health is at risk then being close to a hospital and medical folk that know you is going to be more important.

 The one thing that you should consider in your prep plans is the fact that it doesn't take allot of space to be comfortable. May I suggest making a comfortable bug out room and using that as your heated area. This will concentrate your resources so that they would go farther. Less area to heat and light up will mean that those supplies will last many times longer than you may need.

 Cover your windows with styrofoam during the night. This will prevent light from escaping and will help with keeping the heat in.

 You did not mention how secure your area is but operating on a need to know basis never hurts. If no one needs to know, don't tell them. And if you have a older house get the front door reinforced so that it is not easy to break down. This is something that thieves look for.

Always have a number of alternatives. I have about 4 ways to produce light. Hopefully 5 if I can get Propane lights. Propane is great! Having used it in the 'bush' allot and at work it would seem to me that someone has to do something really stupid to cause an accident with propane. 100 lb. tanks will keep you for months if used only when needed for cooking. You can rent tanks for cheap and get adapters so that one can use lots of handy gas items that take the little one LB. tanks. And they are cheap.

Grow sprouts. Better yet grow wheatgrass. Staying healthy is going to be important to you (and everyone else). Here are some links

  Growing and Using Sprouts

  Sprout Information Index (Sol Azoulay)

Book Contents   (wheatgrass)

And Flax seeds. This is important! Flax seeds are cheap and all a person needs is a coffee grinder and use the ground up seed in oatmeal.

 Barlean's Organic Oils

Here is a link to a site on Y2K prep I think highly of

 *** Preparedness Nuggets Pages***

Lots of good info.

Well there is some more for you to consider. Please don 't consider Y2K a life or death issue. You already have that in your life. Consider the challenge a life quality issue during Y2K. Make plans to try and enjoy it. Pick out several of your favorite books to keep you entertained. I think that one of the main challenges is to stay sane. I actually see Y2K as a mental challenge as much as a physical challenge. Can folks adapt to life changes around them. Leslie you have adapted to MS and that is remarkable. Y2K should be easier. It is not as personal. You mentioned that you plan on hibernating. This is a natural approach to winter survival.

Good luck

-- Brian (imager@ampsc.com), April 07, 1999.

Thanks again, Brian. The support is much appreciated. As is "Preparedness Nuggets pages".

-- Leslie (***@***.net), April 08, 1999.

Mac - Yes, that is the couple that did the presentation. I am not currently an urbanite, (have lived on the edge of a national wilderness in the mountains for more than a decade,) but have my own insecurities and vulnerabilities. Way out here, chances are we will be entirely on our own, if things are bad. No one is going to come rescue us. We will be last on any fix list. That is kinda scary, particularly since the bell curve peaks in dead winter. When you consider the y2k potential, preparations can mount as if you are preparing to rocket off and colonize mars.

The information given at the conference gave me some simple knowledge to face the bottom line with an orderly direction. Yes, I believe we can survive and the tools are very basic. All I really am doing with anything additional is buying time to develop more refined skills of daily living without technology or to bridge a time of economic uncertainty.

Thanks for the acknowledgement. Entering new forums is somewhat like trying to sit in an active rocking chair.

-- marsh (armstrng@sisqtel.net), April 08, 1999.

Leslie, I'm in a city too. Feel free to e-mail me if you want to compare notes.

-- Libby Alexander (libbyalex@aol.com), April 08, 1999.

Same here. Hate to stay in the city but have a family member on dialysis.

-- Shimrod (shimrod@lycosmail.com), April 08, 1999.

God bless all of you people!

This is a thread that makes the whole forum worthwhile.

-- GA Russell (garussell@russellga.com), April 08, 1999.

I've just read "Be Safe, Not Sorry" (amazon.com) and it described a variety of means of helping to deter criminals intent on looting your home. It said they are basically lazy and will go for the easiest mark. So make your home like an onion, so they have to get through layers to get at you, and they may give up. Fortifying doors & windows, having non-electric alarms, having methods of protection if they still get through all of that. For the fainthearted, there is the taser, which I got, and which will knock an attacker out for 15 minutes without doing permanent harm, until you can summon help. Since I don't expect there to be much help available in a meltdown situation, there is the trusty shotgun and handgun as last resort. Isn't it sad to be thinking this way? But if you live in a gang-infested area (which I do, although otherwise it's a lovely county!) and they are perpertrating crimes against us now...what will it be like then? Good luck to all of us who, like me, cannot leave their urban area, much as we may desire to do so.

-- Elaine Seavey (Gods1sheep@aol.com), May 27, 1999.

Survive for what? If things get as bad as some suspect, i.e. huge urban riots, famines, and nuclear armageddon, what would be the point. I live in a "gang infested urban ghetto" and I will bet that I will be safer and have fewer problems than those in the hinterlands who have run away in fear, desperate to preserve their own precious skins. The good people are staying.

-- brian (brian.mcneill@cwix.com), June 02, 1999.