Gary North and others have often wondered in print why journalists and other clueless idiots of similar ilk constantly bleet the mindless y2k refrain "Don't worry, planes won't fall from the sky (as many doomers have claimed". So what y2k doomers have ever claimed that planes would fall from the sky ? No known y2k source or origin for this drivel.

However, I'm wondering if this idea could be the result of mimetic crossover from the popular world of Rapture studies, where a favorite device for making the Rapture more interesting in presentation to unbelievers is to have one of more among the flight crew of a plane in the air be raptured up, leaving the plane in danger of - you guessed it - "falling from the sky". Cf. the excellent novel Left Behind by LaHaye and Jenkins. This image is so striking and so graphically calamitous in nature that it may have seeped beyond its natural habitat.

-- Count Vronsky (vronsky@anna.com), April 06, 1999

Answers

You will not find the idea of a 'secret rapture' in the Bible; it is a man-made fable only, that had its genesis in false prophecies that date only back to the 1830's.

"Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, He is in the desert; go not forth; behold, He is in the secret chambers; believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." -- Matthew 24:26-27

He said that, not me

-- Chicken Little (panic@forthebirds.net), April 06, 1999.

Count V.: As this is early A.M., cannot post verses till ten eastern tonight, but a more intersting set of havoc verses will be sent then from II Esdras. This is an apocrophal book included in the Bible & used by Roman Cathoics and Episcopalians. Verses may not mention rapture, but are scary mentioning worldwide famine and breakdown of civilization- men breaking into each others houses I believe- will find and post tonight.

-- churchorganist (musicswede@webtv.net), April 06, 1999.

"For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up (raptured) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord." I Thessalonians 4:16,17. The rapture is not made up, nor is salvation through Jesus Christ. He is real and at some point in time will return.

-- Rick (Rick@rick.rick), April 06, 1999.

Right on Chicken Little.

Rick, read it carefully. The Rapture theory is goofy. The theory takes all Christians off the earth and leaves the so-called antichrist to wreck havoc on earth then a certain group of people, who have no love for our faith, become faithful and then save the rest of the world? Goofy.

-- freeman (freeman@cali.com), April 06, 1999.

Pastor Chris has a very nice forum right around the corner where all of you would be welcome to discuss "the rapture" until the cows come home, or the Christians depart to heaven, or the infidels burn, or planes fall from the sky.

-- gilda jessie (jess@listbot.com), April 06, 1999.

Here is the posting I had promised this morning. As a presbyterian-reformed (there, you know my background) I subscribe to a Dominion-covenant theology that says we will have an end of an age, but not the end of the world, even if so many translations use the "end of the world" term! I am close to Gary North on this. (no, am not G.N.) So- from II Esdras, chapter 15, verses 13 through 19 I add minor items in brackets that should get liberals and atheists ROTFL! HERE IT IS: "Let the farmers that till the ground mourn, because their seed shall fail (hybrid seed problem?) and their trees ruined by blight and hail and a terrible tempest. (wars, bombs?) Alas for the world and those who live in it! For the sword and misery draw near them, and nation shall rise up to fight against nation (...skip) for there shall be unrest among men; growing strong against one another, they shall in their might have no respect for their King or the chief of their leaders. (any current political names?) For a man will desire to go into a CITY and shall not be able. For because of their pride the cities shall be in CONFUSION. the houses shall be destroyed, and people shall be afraid. A man shall have no pity upon hs NEIGHBORS but shall make an assault upon their houses with the sword (gun) and PLUNDER their

goods, because of hunger for bread and because of great tribulation."

Now, I will be first to say that most of the O.T. and apocrypha ties in with PAST history, be it Babylonian captivity, dividing of Judah and Israel etc. The later part of Esdras II has many pictures of war clouds going from east to west etc. One later verse mentions Asia having copied our evil ways and devices- (computer devices?) I don't often quote scripture and repeat that this section is not held as canon but by Catholics and Episcopalians. The sections of this speak of a world wide terror seemingly greater than just "the world" as the biblical peoples knew.

-- churchorganist (musicswede@webtv.net), April 06, 1999.