Is this a reason for going to war?greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread
This was posted on the USA Gold forum.
This from a leftist perspective, but who can doubt the relevance of the information?B When (and if) Kosovo is "liberated", who winds up in control of the mines?B Anyone who might be making campaign contributions?B Remember the movers and shakers of the NWO are just as amused by the rantings of the "leftists" as they are by the rantings of "right wing extremists" -- as long as the two blame each other and continue to fail recognize their common serfdom.B ICE ****************************************************** Subject: The Serbian Cash Register A real Eye Opener
Via Workers World News Service Reprinted from the July 30, 1998 issue of Workers World newspaper ------------------------- Kosovo: 'The war is about the mines' By Sara Flounders
Wars are at root about economics, and the rapidly expanding war in Kosovo is no different.B So why have millions of dollars in high-tech weapons suddenly become available to the so-called Kosovo Liberation Army by way of the U.S. and Germany?
A July 11 report by New York Times Balkans bureau chief Chris Hedges describes the KLA's new arsenalb
-- Sceptic (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 05, 1999
The dollar cost of this current NATO enterprise is certainly going to exceed $5 billion. One B1 bomber goes for $2 billion. If that's all the mineral reserves are worth, it's nonsense to think that they are the object of the exercise.
Buying control of the Kosovo mines (the usual method), or even paying market prices for the products, would be a whole lot cheaper than mounting a war to obtain it.
As for coal, no way it would be cost-effective here after delivery to U.S. ports. Not to mention that we have enormous coal reserves in the U.S.
-- Tom Carey (email@example.com), April 05, 1999.
Remember that the military-industrial complex thrive in times like these, Yeah we lost a bomber - what we gonna do? hey, that's old technology now - why we'll just build more deadly bombers - what? - running out of cruise missiles we hear being muttered by Clinton News Network, why we'll just ramp up production PDQ - you see the pattern here Tom, the idead is to destabilise world-wide, the mandarins are laughing all the way, literally, to the bank.
They THRIVE on this. The situation is being set up so that SEVERAL cards can be played simultaneously, one of which of course is THE Y2K CARD - stay tuned, read between the lines.
-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), April 05, 1999.
I guess this is the thread for this.
"Follow the money." --- Deep Throat
from the Progressive Review -- the Princeton University Student's newspaper (through ZNet Update) BALKAN STATS I FROM A COLUMN BY TONY SNOW: Key members of the United States Senate sat slack-jawed through a confidential briefing last Thursday from the Clinton administration foreign-policy team. ~~ After the foreign-policy wise men asserted that the United States has a moral imperative to stop the murderous Serbian president, Slobodan Milosevic, one senator asked: How many Albanians have Milosevic's troops massacred this year? The president's emissaries turned ashen. They glanced at each other. They rifled through their papers.
One hazarded a guess: "Two thousand?" No, the senator replied, that was the number for all of last year. He wanted figures for the last month - or even the year to date, since the president had painted such a grisly picture of genocide in his March 24 address to the nation. ~~ The senator pressed on.
How often have such slaughters occurred? Nobody knew. As it turns out, Kosovo has been about as bloody this year as, say, Atlanta. You can measure the deaths not in the hundreds, but dozens. (I'm not trying to deny Milosevic's brutality here; only to provide some comparisons.) More people died last week in Borneo than have expired this year in Kosovar bloodshed - more died in a single Russian bomb blast; in a single outburst of violence in East Timor; in a single day in Rwanda. China has been bloodier this year.
BALKAN STATS II
--Estimated number of persons killed in Iraq due to American-led sanctions: over 1,000,000 --Estimated number of persons killed in the Sudan over the past 15 years: 1,500,000 --Estimated number of persons killed in Rwanda over the last five years: 500,000 --Estimated number of persons killed in Chechnya: 80,000 --Estimated number of people dying each day around the world because of lack of water, clothing, shelter, food or medicine: 100,000 --Estimated number of people in the world who go to bed hungry: 800,000,000 --Estimated number of persons killed in Kosovo last year: 2,000
BALKAN STATS III
--Estimate of new households watching CNN thanks to its war coverage: 472,000
BALKAN STATS IV
--Cost of America's 21 B-2 bombers: $42 billion --Value of Yugoslavian GDP: $43 billion --UN budget as a percentage of the Pentagon budget: 5%
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-- Hallyx (Hallyx@aol.com), April 05, 1999.
Link to Tony Snow's editorial in the Detroit News:
Pols edgy about Clinton's foggy war march
Thanks for the pointer, Hallyx.
-- Mac (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 05, 1999.
Excuse me, but I was under the impression that this is a y2k forum.
-- Yan (email@example.com), April 05, 1999.
Stick around and watch a while. There's something about y2k that brings the paranoids and conspiracy theorists out of the woodwork. If you look carefully, you'll see a strong direct correlation between fanaticism of paranoia and conviction of y2k doom.
The great thing about the internet is, sense is NOT a requirement.
-- Flint (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 05, 1999.
How long have you been on the Net? The Internet has been full of "paranoids and conspiracy theorists" almost from Day 1; DARPANET certainly had more than its share of crazies. Of course, folks from the .MIL sites tend to get a little nervous sometimes, and with good reason. Sometimes people ARE following you around.
Given the size and scope of Y2K, it would be surprising if some folks didn't conclude that it's one big plot. Y'know, like all those execs who swear that it's been cooked up by consultants. 8-}]
I don't subscribe to conspiracy theories much, since they require far more organizational ability, finesse, and intellect than I've seen in many corporate boardrooms. Prefer "Hanlon's Razor", m'self. It's not the conspiracies that may kill us; it's the stupidity.
-- Mac (email@example.com), April 05, 1999.
Here is a y2K connection. In nine months theses NATO forces are going to be severely weakened by the non compliant embedded systems. Count on it.
-- Gunman (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 05, 1999.
"The great thing about the internet is, sense is NOT a requirement."
I'll pass on this one Flint :)
-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), April 06, 1999.
-- Yin (email@example.com), April 06, 1999.
The simplest explanation for this Kosovo war is that our governments are filled with headstrong, idealistic, and unyielding firstborn children of Baby Boomer age. It is almost purely demographic and psychological in cause. It is most likely not a planned conspiracy, just stupidity.
Some of the people who used to be throwing rocks at servicemen, say, 30 years ago, are now in the highest offices of government. Now they are ordering our boys out to do the dirty work. It doesn't matter that what they were doing back then wasn't practical. They saw themselves as ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, and justified their actions with rationales more based in emotion than in cold, clear reality.
Now, once again, our headstrong leaders are ignoring the facts, the alternatives, and the overall complexity of the situation, and choosing to do what FEELS GOOD to them...IF IT FEELS GOOD, DO IT-- RIGHT??!! Their handling of this situation is in character with a generation raised by Benjamin Spock and cowboy TV shows.
The so called "Silent Generation" would not have gotten us into this one. They would have negotiated a peaceful settlement and gotten the Russians to oversee the peace in Kosovo. The so called "GI generation" would not have let it escalate like this either. They would have threatened overwhelming force and imminent use of a large ground force and occupation army. The "GEN-Xers," if given the chance to lead, would have long ago decided that the presidential directive to ban political assassinations was inconvenient--and would have quietly put a bullet in the head of Milosevic, replacing him with a more moderate figure...or they would just say "Why bother?" and go on about other business.
I realize now that what I have just said will be construed as very shrill and hostile--ie., similar to "Don't trust anyone over 30." ;) Well, it is not meant to be. Not all of those who fit the "Baby Boomer" demographic comply with the stereotype. I am only refering to the Baby Boomer LEADERS. I am only refering to the people who were motivated to enter public service by their burning idealism and their desire to remake the world into their own image. Thus they've contributed to present climate of leadership that is highly idealistic, very flambuoyant, very hubristic, and very irresponsible.
In my humble opinion, many have no business in the highest offices of this country. They will lead to our nation's ruin unless some other people--preferably those who are elderly or those who are still young- -step in and grab their reigns of power from this dangerously Quixotic cadre of leadership. Remember world war I. The circumstances and our place in the cycle of time may share uncanny similarities.
-- coprolith (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 06, 1999.
Excellent reading that supports much of Ms. Flounders writing...
"When Corporations Rule the World", by David C. Korten.
-- Roland (email@example.com), April 06, 1999.
"The simplest explanation for this Kosovo war is that our governments are filled with headstrong, idealistic, and unyielding firstborn children of Baby Boomer age. It is almost purely demographic and psychological in cause. It is most likely not a planned conspiracy, just stupidity."
Good observation, Coprolith - you are so so so so very right.
-- Lisa (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 06, 1999.