Is It Mainly Christians Preparing?greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread
On TV and radio, at huge preparedness expos and public seminars, on the Net, and at churches, I've observed (for over a year) that so many Christians are taking Y2K prep seriously. They seem to be practical and realistic, for the most part, and not trying to create fear in others. Anyone else seeing this, too? Great granny Holly
-- Holly Allen (Holly3325@juno.com), April 03, 1999
I don't think its mainly Christians that are preparing, but they(we) seem to get the most press - mostly negative. I would say a lot (still a great minority) of Christians are preparing and there are simply a fair number of Christians in this country, compared to most others - I think I read for instance that less than 1% of people in India are any type of Cristian faith.
Although, of course, Christian beliefs certainly tend to support this type of scenario happening sooner or later, so we are predisposed to at least believing its possible.
Another group that would be predisposed are programmers - like the many cool and witty people on this forum (no joke).
-- Jon Johnson (email@example.com), April 03, 1999.
I'm not a Christian but I am making some preparations for Y2K disruptions. I have a friend - who could be considered a "right-wing fundamentalist Christian" - who is not making any preparations for Y2K.
-- Jim Morris (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 03, 1999.
I'm sure most of those in the US who are preparing are Christians, simply because most people in the US are Christians.
Whether non-Christians who are preparing are over- or under- represented among the population of preparers, who knows?
-- Flint (email@example.com), April 03, 1999.
From my observation and interaction of people in Central Nebraska concerned and preparing for y2k, most are Christian and most are motivated by a desire to be able to help others that are not preparing, just in case this does turn out real bad.
I agree with Jon Johnson's previous comment that "Christian beliefs certainly tend to support this type of scenario happening sooner or later, so we are predisposed to at least believing its possible." This is part of my belief system that a just God will bring judgement for our National and individual sins sooner or later. Why not through y2k? TJ
-- TJ (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 03, 1999.
Some are connotating the date of April 9/99 with the proverbial 666. I'm no programmer, so can't give you the specifics. But something to do with a file delete code.
-- Devil-Slayer (email@example.com), April 03, 1999.
As a Christian, I think I see as many brothers and sisters preparing as not. I also know a number of non-believers who are taking steps, but their steps seem to be less pronounced than those of Christians I know. Why do Christians take this more seriously? I agree, we tend to look for "signs of the end times." But I also think we, due to our faith in Jesus Christ, tend to rely less on man to come through for us. There are plenty of examples in scripture of people doing wacky things for yet unseen events, and in the end their actions prove prudent rather than laughable.
As we get closer to January 1, people like Mitch from ZDnet have greater ammunition against us to show our thinking ridiculous. More companies declare readiness, more PR comes out of the White House, etc. Non-Christians don't walk by faith. Christians, in spite of what you see by your five senses, are supposed to walk on what they believe the Lord is telling them to do. The next few months probably won't bring errors upon errors. It probably will bring greater reason for Y2K-optimism. This will make it harder for the non-Christian who might have otherwise prepared.
For us Christians, on the other hand, if we really believe the will of God is for us to prepare, who cares who laughs and how goofy it seems? We either obey or disobey. Therefore, I think you'll see preparation become a more Christian tactic as the new millennium edges nearer.
-- Brett (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 03, 1999.
I'm not sure of the numbers, but I do know that some of us rotten infidels are preparing as well. :-)
-- Donna Barthuley (email@example.com), April 03, 1999.
This Y2k problem is not a religious issue. It is not about End Times or God's punishment of a wicked society. It is a problem caused by computer programs that use 2 digits for the year instead of 4, so that 01-01-00 sorts before instead of after 12-31-99. Other interesting effects can be expected. One need not be of any particular faith to understand this.
-- Robert Sturgeon (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 03, 1999.
Exactly, Mr. Sturgeon, and an interesting debate is why so few in the general population understand 00 = problem.
-- Leska (email@example.com), April 03, 1999.
Hi Great Granny Holly. We meet again. :))
Most of my Christian friends are NOT preparing. I am a Christian and am preparing to the best of my ability. Thing is I'm not only preparing because of y2k, although it was my beginning motivation. We live in an area where hurricanes are a threat. Also I have a husband who has diabetes and it is not controlled. I look at it as I'm preparing for ANY disaster that may come my way.
The other night we had a strong thunder storm pass our way. The electricity went out and the kids were a bit concerned. I told them not to worry, went upstairs and got two candles out of my two cases I had stored, brought down an oil lamp and presto, we had light! They seen how being just a little prepare brought a sense of comfort.
-- Sandra (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 03, 1999.
Ahh, yes, a few infidels are preparing. End times? Judgement for our sins? The will of God? Well shucks, and all this time I thought it was those pesky old computers.
-- gilda jessie (email@example.com), April 03, 1999.
"This Y2k problem is not a religious issue. It is not about End Times or God's punishment of a wicked society."
-- Robert Sturgeon (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 03, 1999.
True it is not a religious issue. However some of us Christians understand that this economic System is evil. You have to admit that it does enslave people. Do you own a home or is it owned by the bank and you have to work for the privilege of living there?
We also believe that this System is called Babylon the Great and it will be replaced by a truly free system. Isn't it interesting that we have been attacking the Chaldeans, Iraq, for most of this decade? Iraq (Babylon) is the source of this system we live under.
If you are interested in learning more come over to Pastor Chris's site.
By the way, I've been kicked out of three Churches for talking about these things, so I can understand your disdain for what I call, Churchianity.
-- Mark Hillyard (email@example.com), April 03, 1999.
Well. . .I brought up the subject once to some very devout Baptists (parents of one of my child's friends) and the wife's response was, "Our pastor gave a talk on this, and he said that if we started storing supplies it would be the same thing as posting a sign in our yards that read "Free Food."
What to conclude from that?
-- FM (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 03, 1999.
One of the churches I got kicked out of was a Baptist Church. Go figger!
-- Mark Hillyard (email@example.com), April 03, 1999.
Just a thought here... From the things I have been reading on the 'net, it seems that a number of churches have assumed the resposibility for informing their congregations about preparing for Y2K. Those without Internet access and who don't frequent a church are only getting the "rosy spin" put forth by the mainstream media. No wonder they aren't concerned.
-- just sunshine (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 03, 1999.
I don't think that the common denomination (Sorry!)in all this is necessarily a particular religeous belief.
As somebody said,GI's are the kind of people who are good at seeing & understanding how things can be & are connected to each other.
Another factor may well be the way in which an individual thinks about their individual/collective responsibilities & the quality & meaning of life.Our present society almost encourages a state of dependency & conformity. You only have to go to a less bureaucratic country to appreciate how controlled our lives really are.The sad thing is that most people accept that level of control almost on a sub-conscious level or are prepared to toe the line for financial or status reasons.
A third reason maybe that those who have suffered some traumatic but totally unexpected event in their lives..such as a fatal road accident or the sudden death of a child, have a far greater understanding of the realities of life than those whose lives have not been touched with tragedy.
Many people seek & need reassurance in authoritian figures.Desmond Morris,the anthropologist, said in his book, "The Naked Ape", that most human beings,even adults, need a "father figure". In my reading many of those DGI's & DWGI's are the child to the Government's adult.
I KNOW that nothing in life is certain.Luck can be on your side..or maybe not,Fairness & justice do not come into the equation.
So,I prepare,following the old family mantra:-
Like many, Love few, Learn to paddle your own canoe.
-- Chris (email@example.com), April 03, 1999.
Here in the Los Angeles melting pot it is easy to see beyond this false dichotomy of Christian vs. faithless. I'm noticing that some of the Japanese community is preparing. This is from stopping in at many different ethnic businesses to get buckets, and getting into conversations. Japanese and other Asians are as a group, notably self-reliant, hard-working, with low crime rates, low reliance on welfare. They have no love for government handouts and take care of their own. This is cultural.
Chris, I agree. Whether one prepares has a lot to do with the type of perception one has. Inner or outer directed, or both? Likes to see the big picture? "N" on the Meyer Briggs scale? There was a thread on this a few weeks ago. From our (admittedly small and self-selected ) sample, there was a striking preponderance of N's! On this scale, a person tends to either N or S - iNtuitive or Sensing. N's take their perceptual cues more from inner guidance and S's more from their external senses. I doubt if "N" always correlates with being religious, since there are different ways of being religious. Some religious are directed from a connectedness with humanity and spiritual sense within (N); others have "internalized the external" icons, symbols, rituals, and voices of authority (S) or are very practical and active serving the community (also S), but in either case an S might be less likely to be a GI. With a whole range of folks between. Likewise non-religious are N or S. (Not that one is better than the other, each has shortcomings and strengths.) People who are S may be less likely to make the intuitive leap about possible Y2k problems, when the sun is shining, the economy is booming, etc. On the other hand once it hits, they may be the ones out there mobilizing the community.
Well, I won't push the pop psychology beyond what it can do... but it can be another useful tool.
-- Debbie (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 03, 1999.
No, I am an anti-Christian and I am VERY prepared.
-- THE ANTICHRIST (email@example.com), April 03, 1999.
Interesting thread. Lots of good observations here.
I've been exposed for years to "predictions" of God's punishment (from the stories of Fatima, Akita, Garanbandal, etc.). Y2k is VERY different from any of those. Not a comet out of the sky, or a supernatural event, but something we absolutely did to ourselves, the perfect poetic justice. If I were writing a sci-fi novel, this is the story I would use.
BTW: Among those religious "predictions" is the gloomiest I have ever heard, anywhere, so I'll share it with you: Mankind will never write the year 2000 at all. When the rollover date comes, there will be such chaos in the world that no one will know for sure what day it is.
Even Paul Milne isn't that gloomy....
-- hey (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 03, 1999.
GI or DGI, what percentage of each is Christian? Does it matter? The more who prepare the better all of us will be. I'm with Donna..just another rotten infidel preparing.
-- Mike Lang (email@example.com), April 03, 1999.
Mike --- I agree: what difference does it make? While there is nothing wrong with a thread like this, I don't see it as particularly constructive.
-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), April 03, 1999.
Neither do I.
-- Deborah (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 03, 1999.
In answer to your question: vielleicht.
The United States of America is not a true Christian nation, but there are many real Christians who dwell within this country. Many more Christians dwell elsewhere on this planet. There are many nonChristians who are VERY AWARE of Y2K, and they are taking appropriate measures to prepare for the worst.
Any human with depth perception knows hard times are coming. Continue to prepare because the Great Depression will hit us all!
-- dinosaur (email@example.com), April 03, 1999.
I think a thread like this can be encouraging to some (like myself)I don't have much contact with people because of my lifestyle and my only info comes from forums such as this one.I don't know the day or the hour of the (end times)but hope to be able to help those who get blindsided if things do go bad.It is encouraging to read of other Christians and their take on things.But I am glad for everyone who is trying to plan for survival.I believe we are in the minority.Christians or otherwise. Traveler
-- traveling stranger (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 03, 1999.
While I personally know more Christians than nonChristians who are preparing, that may be a function of the fact that I know more Christians than nonChristians period. On the other hand, considering that we live in a post-Christian society (i.e. one in which the majority of the population are NOT practicing - note that word - Christians) I would expect that *per capita* there are more Christians than nonChristians who are preparing.
Interestingly the one factor that I note consistently among preparers is that they are those who, by and large, are not part of the power elites or upper-class yuppie America. Look around at all of us yourdonites - both Christian and nonChristian...see what I mean? Power elites R not us!
As for this country being under God's judgement - I don't doubt that for a minute...though how He will use or not use y2k as part of that judgement is something we wont know until after that fact.
just my 2 cents' worth,
-- Arlin H. Adams (email@example.com), April 03, 1999.
Hi, Holly. I've ben lurking here for a year now, I used to enjoy your posts. Come on back and stay a while.
I was raised Catholic and my one sister is a Jehova's Witness. However, I am an Atheist now, despite all the religious training and dogma that's been thrown my way.
I don't believe there are more religious than non-religious who are preparing. I do feel that the GI's seem to be more intellectual types, regardless of religious persuasion. Let's not get back on the IQ thing...I'm only saying those of us who are deep thinkers and analize EVERTHING going on around us are the ones who take it the most seriously.
To Granny and all, Have a Happy Vernal Equinox celebration. May your land be fertile and produce well this year.
-- christa (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 03, 1999.
Christians are predisposed to eschatology. They've been predicting and waiting for the End for 2000 years (the first followers of Jesus thought the world would end in that generation - read Matthew!). Time and time again there have arisen Christian movements predicting the imminent demise of the planet. They never learn from history, just keep on predicting the End (always in the generation they happen to be living in - isn't that convenient?).
As a former Christian (thank God I escaped Christianity, as Mark Twain might have said), I'd say that Christians are statistically over-represented in the y2k crowd. But so are right-wing nuts and insane people. Draw your own conclusions.
-- Infidel Heretic (email@example.com), April 03, 1999.
I feel I have to throw in my 2 cents worth. So far in this thread, no one has identified themselves as Jewish. Though I have no undergone a formal conversion, I will claim that status by virtue of marriage and years of practice as a Jew.
I have been a heavy advocate of preparation in my congregation. Some have paid attention. More are waiting "until autumn" do start to prepare.
I feel that when the dust settles on the y2k issue (when we finally figure out what happened and to whom), Jews will be very hit very hard by y2k. I can cite several reasons I can identify. There may be more.
-- Jews tend to be concentrated in major cities. This is not healthy for y2k.
-- A high percentage of Jews (at least in our congregation) are academics, a population that really does not get it.
-- Jews tend to associate preperation with Christian fundamentalists.
-- Traditional survival stategies for Jews have been to depend on the whims of "the powers that be" as a force against the population.
-- Preperation (collecting big piles of stuff in one's house) may seem to put one in the position of being a walking, talking ethnic slur.
I invite others to add to this list. I know there are other GI's in the Jewish community. I know because I have exchanged e-mail with a few. Or you can look at my y2k web site
-- David Holladay (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 04, 1999.
I thank the Lord for his goodness and the bible that got all the answers that we need for life. God told Noah to build an ark. Sure people laughed because they had never saw rain before. But Noah did what he was told by God. Then the rains came. What happened to those people that laughed at Noah. A lot of my christian friends laugh at me. But that is ok. In Proverbs 6 vs6 reads, Go to the ant, you sluggard; consider its ways and be wise! It has no commander, no overseer or ruler. yet it stores its provisions in the summer and gathers its food at harvest. Now don't we have more sense then an ant!!!!!!
-- Lyn Truss (StormieLyn@webtv.com), April 04, 1999.
In reply to Mark Hillyard (email@example.com), April 03, 1999, especially, "True it is not a religious issue. However some of us Christians understand that this economic System is evil. You have to admit that it does enslave people. Do you own a home or is it owned by the bank and you have to work for the privilege of living there?"
I don't know what some Christians understand. Some parts of the current U.S. political system are wrong, if not out and out "evil." But the economic system is not particularly evil. No, I do not admit that it enslaves people. And yes, I do own my home. The bank does not. I need only pay the low C(not "K")alifornia property taxes in order to live in it. But if a bank did hold a mortgage on it, that would be because I agreed to such an arrangement- hardly the same thing as slavery.
I may or may not have disdain for "Churchianity," but that is quite beside the point. This is about 2 digits in the year field instead of 4. The problem is shared by computers in Saudi Arabia, Sweden, Israel and every other place on earth that uses the Christian calendar for business purposes. If it is the Lord's doing, He seems to be punishing the saints and sinners with equal enthusiasm.
-- Robert Sturgeon (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 04, 1999.
Robert, I'm glad you brought up that slavery bit. Why is it slavery when you choose to saddle yourself with house payments beyond your means which keeps you working harder than you like. My dad used to say, "If paying for it, takes the joy out of owning it, get rid of it." If Americans wouldn't get so caught up in "malling" and the "shop till you drop" mania, they wouldn't be slaves to the economic system of choice.
-- gilda jessie (email@example.com), April 04, 1999.
To see the latest on this issue, click
firstname.lastname@example.org), April 05, 1999.
That post disappeared! Try again:
To see the latest on this issue of whether Christians are preparing as a significant portion of the "GIs" -- a fact which is quickly becoming a major focal point, click:
and look for the articles under April 3 which have "Christian" in the title. Very interesting reading!
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-- Leska (email@example.com), April 05, 1999.
-- what's wrong (with@HTML.now?), April 05, 1999.
You don't have to be a christian to GI. I'm a "born-again atheist" (I was born an atheist, but was indoctrinated into the religion of my parents by my parents with the "blessing" of society. Then, in my teen years, my intelligence allowed me to see through the scam, and I became "born again" [as an atheist]).
Y2K is not some religious "millenial event"; it is a technology caused event. BTW, according to religious scholars, OVER 2000 years have passed. Our BC/AD count is off by several years.
-- A (A@AisA.com), April 05, 1999.
(With apologies to all) Christ preached a radical detachment from the world. Matthew 6:26 "Behold the birds of the air. They neither reap, nor sow, nor gather into barns, yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are YOU not much better than they?" I am the world's biggest hypocrite (trust me), but living in the Will of God is the only way to escape from the tyranny of man's will. For 500 years we have lived under the delusion of the Enlightment: that man does not need God, and that man can make his own way in the world. But when I am getting ready for 'work' every morning, I always watch the squirrels and birds, frolicking in the dawn. Why are we so stupid, if we're so smart?
-- Spidey (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 05, 1999.
"-- A high percentage of Jews (at least in our congregation) are academics, a population that really does not get it."
Interesting observation. It's amazing how many things academic-types don't get. I work with college professors, & the historians -- otherwise intelligent people -- totally don't get Y2k at all. My guess is that they're interested only in events that have already happened. In another 200 years such people will be writing their doctoral theses on the events surrounding Y2k. But until it happens, they can't or won't imagine it.
-- observer (email@example.com), April 05, 1999.
Good posts here. Hope this is a contribution to the discussion. All shared in my humble opinion (IMHO).
There may be a difference between one's 'practiced' religion and the 'religion' one esposes with one's lips. There are alot of contradictions which are never resolved (in most people's livetimes).
One thing that may be true about those who are preparing is that they are not as invested in 'believing' in the world people have made for themselves..not as enfranchised in it. Alot of the DGI problem is a problem of religious belief, not rationality. Hence, much of the DGI response is alot like people whose (practiced) faith is challenged.
Talking about 'christians' as a cohesive group is probably not very valid because 'christians' or those who identify with that label are way too diverse. Gallop (a Christian) polled people in the USA (in the mid 1980's) and found that 90% of those who identify themselves as 'christian' behaved no differently from those who did not do so. Also found that they were virually illiterate concerning the content of the Bible. In the summary he noted that christian faith in America was 'a mile wide and an inch deep'. And so it goes.
I agree with the comment that 'there are so many of them that it seems like they are more involved in preparing'. But there are also alot of Mormons involved now(especially more lately since the Leadership has put the word out). There is probably an entri in any group which has a view of themselves as 'seperate from' and 'in contrast to' the 'world' or 'world system'. As well, any group which has a sense of occational 'divine judgement' occuring in the affairs of the world.
I am a Christian; been involved with evangelical and charismatic expressions of faith since 1970. Could be called 'conservative' but escew 'right wing' as well as 'wacko nut-case'. (;-)
In terms of what is 'judgement', etc. Its probably important to sift out the popular images and ideas of popular culture if one wishes to consider this with any clarity. My understanding is that this is not a topic which can be stated in a sentence or two (though it often is) and that popular language is often as bad a barrier as a chinese and a nigerian trying to speak to each other in portugese. Language still our great barrier, isn't it? That is not to say that people would agree with each other if proper language were used, but at least we would know where the real disagreements were.
-- David (C.D@I.N), April 05, 1999.
It is mostly Christians who are blindly following the doomsayers.
-- doombuster (A@B.C), April 05, 1999.
People, from all spectrums of the global rainbow, prepare, when they really understand our interconnectedness.
Understanding is also non-denominational.
Wisdom is lived understanding. It knows no religious bounds or specific idiologies.
Youve either learned lifes lessons, or not. Period.
And you either choose to understand beyond, what you think you know, or not.
Intuition and guidance doesnt choose sides or belief systems.
Neither does the Divine Creation.
Sad. Especially when they don't "get" what's important.
-- Diane J. Squire (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 05, 1999.