Dear People:

I ask you are you a believer in GOD? I am a believer, and I have walked the walk and talked the talk since Jan 16th,1967. I BELIEVE GOD. GOD knows me and I know him, He is not interested in my actions, For he looks upon my heart and my mind to see if I intend good or evil to myself,or any other person. He is REAL and His word is as sure as the air you breathe or the water you drink. No matter who you are (a believer or an unbeliever) he is close enough to either kill you or do with you as he pleases. He is more powerful than all the bombs that were ever made or any that will be made. I had two men threaten my live with guns and bad language to my face. And I ask Lord is this my end or will you help me. One lost his mind on the spot and the other died of a busted heart vessel before me, One time when I was going over a one lane bridge and I meet a tractor tralor on the bridge moving very fast. Whe We got thro the bridge the driver of the truck and I both stopped and there was not even a scratch on either vehicle. I know his power to make things small or great at his will. I know this is a y2k forum, and I think this is y2k related. Many will be angry, spam me

The things that I have learned no matter how much bible reading or scripture anyone knows that God wants honesty and faith that you are talking to The Creater of All Things then he acts to see that the request is answered.

I have read much about the mark of the beast on these threads which is all faulty. So I thought I would try to ease some hearts from believing some things written. When the mark of the beast comes to you you will know it. Indeed there are some today and even on this thread with the mark already on their forehead and on their hand. If your right hand means good help to all with God help, and your mind which is in the forehead means good thoughts, hater of injustices, with GODS help good will toward all men, Then you will never have the mark of the beast.

FOR GOD has filled his peoples hands and our forehead with his Spirit of Love and satin has filled his with hate and lies and bloodshed.

Now God has said, St. Matthew 18:19 Verily I say unto you,That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching anything that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my father which is in heaven.Only 2. Only 2.Only 2. Thats why things aren't be done. No 2 people agree and pray.

OK now all you complainers and fearful people come and put your prayer down with truth in your hearts. Confess your faults and really tell God how you really feel about him and yourself. Its ok to get mad and argue with him, he hates yes people that then goes on and do their own thing.

IF it be God will Clinton and his bunch will be shown for what they are and will soon be dung before the eyes of the world and the people. That is my prayer.

Lon

-- Lon (Lon1937@aol.com), April 02, 1999

Answers

Lon,

I'm sure that all of the forum participants respect your religion and your faith ... but given the basic focus of this forum, it's hard for me to see how your message addresses the basic issue of Y2K that we're all grapping with in our own little ways...

-- Ed Yourdon (ed@yourdon.com), April 02, 1999.

Lon and Ed,

I think I understand what Lon is saying in his own way, Ed. He is saying that God is in total control and that perhaps all of us need a balance in our lives regarding Y2K and its affect on our lives today and in the future. In the end, everything passes over God's desk for approval or veto. Beliving this doesn't mean I don't prepare for possible service disruptions, but it does mean that I am able to sleep nights and not fear for my life or for the future of my children. Personal believes and one's faith have ALOT to do with how one responds to Y2K and its possible ramifications.

Thanks to all for the helpful ideas, recipes and humor. I appreciate all of it. ;)

pamela

-- pamela (pamela4@hotmail.com), April 02, 1999.

Yeah, gotta watch out for that "satin" guy.

I'm sure that there are more appropriate places, with people who want to hear this stuff.

This isn't one of those places.

Please leave.

Jolly dislikes preachers and their ilk.

-- Jollyprez (jolly@prez.com), April 02, 1999.

Isn't he the one in the shiny pants?

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), April 02, 1999.

Lon yes you are right, Y2K will test our adherence and strength in our relationship with God. Blessings to you on this Holy Day. Keep the faith and come back to the Circus leaving in the morning for diversion relief. God is the Reality.

-- lurker (from@way.back), April 02, 1999.

That's not the same Lon.

-- me (trying@to.help), April 02, 1999.

Lon, I don't care whether or not this is the place for what you wrote! I don't think the poster earlier had any right telling you to leave either. ("Please leave?!" Let him/her leave!!!) I very much appreciate your opinion and your thoughts on the reason that you are able to cope with y2k! Yes, I knew you might be flamed or made fun of. I used to post here quite often, but got sick and tired of all the fussing, flaming, arguing, etc. Some here tolerate filthy language and vulgarity...but can't seem to tolerate one's reflection of their faith or learn from their testimony, which gives them courage and peace about facing y2k. Real easy to poke fun and make jokes...not so easy to examine one's self and face conviction of the heart. You have seen the mighty hand of God at work, so you try to encourage others. I speak for myself and others...Thank you for that! Today is truely Good Friday for those of us who believe! (Even though you spelled Satan's name wrong...we ALL know who you mean.) Thank you again, Lon, for your testimony...which helps you with y2k!

-- Angel (Heart@2Heart.com), April 02, 1999.

Dear ED,UncleDeah, Jolly Prez.

I don't want or need respect for my beliefs. Y2k covers a wide range of torments to people. I see them on your threads.

Ed you are an expert in your field of progamming and known all over the world. What say you, for sure to the people?

He who drives nails at the entrance of the doorway will surley be found guilty of hurt.

All in all, If you happen to hear an angel neither look nor speak for he is of Heaven. I know he will be awsome.

Since this is your site I will respect that and leave it as I found it.

Lon

-- Lon (lo1937@aol.com), April 02, 1999.

Hello, Believer in the Living God:

There will be hard times ahead due to Y2K and unforeseen surprises preempting the Y2K rollover. Millions will not be prepared. When those who have been in denial suddenly realize the absolute requirements of obtaining the basic necessities for sustenance, then all Haydes will break loose, and it will get very ugly! No joke. :(

Keep your faith. The Living God will sustain you through Y2K and beyond because He has promised to never leave you nor forsake you. :)

Ed Yourdon has been diagnosed as being secular. I pray he knows the Living God that you know. :)

-- dinosaur (dinosaur@williams-net.com), April 02, 1999.

Thanks for the inspirational message Lon. Back in the 60's the Supreme court decided God was not relevant in our school systems, I think we can all see where that led. God is most assuredly never off topic, for nothing transpires without his notice. I would ask that we all pray for the refugees, and that peace may come to the world in the next century.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), April 02, 1999.

The basic belief that God is a huge spirit that covers the whole universe is total nonsense. God the father and his son Jesus Christ are two distinct seperate beings who look just like us and have a body of flesh and bones. They are Celestial beings.

We also have a Mother in Heaven who loves us more than you can imagine or comprehend. Our Mother in Heaven is so sacret to God the Father, that he does not allow us to take her name in vein, and that is why nothing has ever been written about her.

I can't wait for the day that I can embrace her with the love I have for her. When that day arrives, Y2K really does not matter one way or the other.

Y2K is just another test that will come our way to prepare us for much greater things that will come our way in the next phase of our excistance. Perhaps we will be graded how well we have prepared and how well we handle Y2K.

With all the rerible turmoil in this world, I long for the day that I can live in peace after I leave this life. Then there will be no corruption and greed for money, which is the cause of all turmoil in this world!

May all of you have the peace within you that you need to have to handle life during Y2K!

-- Y2K prepared (Y2Kprepared@completely.com), April 03, 1999.

Will you children take your simplistic, juvenile, anthropomorphic, extraterrestrial diety over to Pastor Chris's forum? He has posted an invitation on the thread just below this. I'm sure you will find others there more in tune with your, ummm...beliefs.

Satin's Doll

PS: Get a spell checker...better yet, learn to spell. Learn to write, sheesh.

-- Mr. Mephistopheles (Styxx@Hades.corn), April 03, 1999.

If the "Save ME! Save ME God" crowd ever gets control, before or after Y2k, they will make Yugoslavia look like a playschool. If Y2K is a 9, we'll have to listen to forty zillion more sermons, from morons walking around in clothes blathering about God's will. And we'll hear that we brought it on ourselves because we sinned ad inifinitum. If it's a "bump in the road, " it won't be because of a Herculean effort by programmers, or corporations spending the necessary bucks, it wil be because God SAVED us from our folly.

Listening for the zillionth time that "God is REAL, I BELIEVE GOD, (shouted) and God is in control, and omnipotent, and all that repetitious hogwash, ad nauseam, ad hominem, reminds me why I happily threw off the yoke of religion forever.

And Pamela, you didn't need to explain what Lon was saying by repeating it one more time. Obviously we have to respect fool's religion, but fools do not have to respect any suggestion from the provider of this forum. If it should turn out that the Religious Right is in control before or after Y2K, I'd rather be dead.

Gee, I may go to that conference in Chicago after all, sponsored by the Council for Secular Humanism. It's May13-16, the Topic is Why Does Religion Persist? Fairth, Culture, and the Brain. It features Richard Dawkins, Wendy Kaminer, Lionel Tiger, Philip Jose' Farmer Frederik Pohl and others.

And don't tell me not to read the if I don't like it. I want to know who my enemies are.

-- gilda jessie (jess@listbot.com), April 03, 1999.

Aw, don't go away, gilda,...there'll still be a strong need for skeptical and critical thinking should all that come to pass.

"Man is a Religious Animal. He is the only Religious Animal. He is the only animal that has the True Religion--several of them. He is the only animal that loves his neighbor as himself and cuts his throat if his theology isn't straight." Samuel Langhorne Clemens, AKA Mark Twain

-- Donna Barthuley (moment@pacbell.net), April 03, 1999.

Enemies Gilda? Respect a fools religion? Somebody must have hit a nerve........BTW, are you from the USA; the country where people are dying to get to, because people (so far) can say or practice any religion they choose?

-- KoFE (Your@town.USA), April 03, 1999.

Another great quote. Wish I could remember the citation, I think it was an 18th Century French philosopher or historian...goes something like this:

"If 4 million people think a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

Then, H.L. Mencken said:

"The most costly of all follies is to believe passionately in the palpably not true. It is the chief occupation of mankind."

-- Donna Barthuley (moment@pacbell.net), April 03, 1999.

Donna, don't you love Mark Twain. He had a lot to say about religion and hypocrits. Here's one of my favorites: "If Christ were here now there is one thing he would not be--a Christian."

As a spiritual person, but not a Christian, this is my one prayer to the Christian God: "God please protect me from your followers."

-- gilda jessie (jess@listbot.com), April 03, 1999.

Gilda --- As you may remember, I feel strongly that religious-centered threads, whether about God or goddesses, should not be on this forum. I regret this thread profoundly and continue to urge Christians to post about matters of faith on the complementary forum.

I am sincerely sorry you view me as your enemy. I don't see you that way. Your prayer is not at all unsound in part (I would probably have been put to death by fellow Christians several hundred years ago). But, you've never said anything in the past that suggests you would ever pray to the God and Father of Jesus Christ, the Christian God indeed. On the assumption you were not mocking, I would suggest that you ask him to protect you FOR Himself as well as FROM (some) of us.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), April 03, 1999.

All you Godless unbelievers think you're so high and mighty, but your time will come when your tired old body expires. You cannot escape it!

You talk big now and pretend to be able to live without God. What are you going to do when your body expires and you have an out of body experience?

Will you still say, this is not happening! I do not believe this! I'm not dead!

I know that you will say....Oh, God please help me! How foolish I have been, not believing in God and life after death! How sorry I am for saying the things against God and religion! Oh, God, I'm so sorry for having offended thee! Please forgive me! I didn't know! Oh, please forgive me!

You people will sing a whole different tune when your body expires! Death is approaching just like Y2K! YOU CANNOT ESCAPE DEATH!

I say to all of you "DGI" religion disbelievers, YOUR TIME WILL COME AS SURE AS HELL!

Maybe Y2K will speed up your time of arrival to the other side, when your body expires because of lack of food and water.

Yes, you WILL run out of food sooner or later if Y2K is a 10 like Gary North has been warning you about!

May God have mercy on all of you high and mighties!

Repent yee, for the hour is nigh!

-- starsky (starskyand@hutch.com), April 03, 1999.

You never know what will fall out of this tree when you shake it.

As for me, I welcome whatever broadens my awareness of the world I'm living in. This thread qualifies.

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), April 03, 1999.

To the complainers - If you hate Christian perspectives so much, hit the back key and move on to the next topic. It's really a very easy thing to do. We all have opinions and thoughts that come from our own unique perspective. Why can't Christians express theirs, especially when it is so easy for you to simply choose not read their post and move on to the next one ?

-- TJ (trickjames@hotmail.com), April 03, 1999.

I welcome death the same way I welcome life.

Some people just can't leave well enough alone and pretend they have the inside story about death because a moldy old book written by second century monks tells them so.

Well I have two points to make. Number one, if you ever meet Jesus, Kill him (credit due to the Buddhist who said that first).

Number two, whoever said that A.) life will be good if it goes on forever? and B.) that the so called Heavenly Father cannot die?

As far as I can see this planet is in miserable shape and yeah that is our fault but so what? We're humans. If anyone ever tries to preach to me that I'm going to be punished for being human I'll tell them they can take their religious ideology and save it for their own death beds. "cause I'd rather laugh with the sinners then cry with the saints, the sinners are much more fun".

I'm with gilda, throwing that religious yoke off my back was the best thing I ever decided for myself. Now THAT is Freedom.

-- (~~@~~.com), April 03, 1999.

TJ, I do not open religion topics. But once they are open, I say what I feel, which I have as much right to do as Christians.

Pastor Chris has extended an invitation for Christians to come to his site and chat, proselytize, lament, give thanks, blessings, and be with like minded people. But that wouldn't be any fun would it? You'd rather blatantly carry on about your faith and start a big ruckus. Of course, if none of us bring it up, that's a big disappointment, so you start a religion thread so you can preach and act all persecuted when we disagree with you.

Big Dog, I do not consider you a personal enemy. But Christians and the IRS scare me. Both are zealots that won't take no for an answer. After reading the Psychology of Religion: Religion in Individual Lives, I understood why I was scared.

I have personal beliefs about being a spiritual person that I discuss with some like-minded friends, that believe as I do. But I would never start a thread on a Y2K forum about my spirituality. I'm into rice, beans, toilet paper, expiration dates, filters, news about y2k, good books and the totally wonderful environment that is being ruined whether y2k happens or not.

-- gilda jessie (jess@listbot.com), April 03, 1999.

Hey Starsky, you always were the stupid one.

-- Hutch (lame@70s.show), April 03, 1999.

--- gilda: if the founding fathers had foreseen the IRS, they would have abandoned the Revolution in despair at what would happen to their experiment, without a doubt.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), April 03, 1999.

Wow! See the sparks fly!

This Saturday at work I wondered what other responses would be posted. Last night the server became TOO BUSY, and I couldn't regain entrance, so I logged off.

My comment about Ed Yourdon being diagnosed as secular came from reading materials by Y2K-aware Christians. I don't know exactly what Ed Yourdon believes regarding the supernatural except that he was the first to reply to the Christian's post, and his words were revealing.

gilda:

OK, I know you're not happy with religion and mind control, but your venom has an appropriate antidote: prayer. The powerful spiritual force inspiring your posts is one whom I have no desire to encounter. At one time in my life I was a firm atheist, but an evil supernatural attack upon my consciousness removed that biased mindset forever.

I don't mind people stating their differing religious beliefs on this forum, and I realize many people have not experienced various harmful attacks from the numinous realm, so I accept the conflicts evinced when true freedom of speech is expressed. I thank Ed Yourdon for this wonderful forum, and I hope he and his family prosper.

What most offends me on this forum is the crass invective!

-- dinosaur (dinosaur@williams-net.com), April 03, 1999.

Instead of three topics being impolite to discuss at dinner, it is now four: sex, religion, politics and now Y2k. Absolutely amazing that when the topic of personal beliefs comes up, whether it being how much food and water to set aside for Y2k, or who to vote for in the upcoming election or some politician's sex life, or lack thereof; or one's personal belief in God, it is an invitation for non- believers (Y2K is not going to happen, Clinton didn't *really* lie, it wasn't *really* sex and there is a God, but not the God *you* say He is.) to attack the person who is expressing these thoughts.

Forums are meant for people to share ideas thoughts and to help each other. It is disgusting for *anyone* to be criticized for what they believe and for daring to share what they believe. And if people want to weave their beliefs into a very personal situation such as Y2K, it is their right.

If you don't like the way a particular thread is heading, move on to the next one. Try to remember this is not Communist China.

God is like Y2K. He is real and He will make an impact on your life whether your prepared for Him or not. Thank God He didn't put my in charge of protecting His reputation.

pamela ;)

-- pamela (pamela4@hotmail.com), April 03, 1999.

Pamela --- I am a fanatical Christian who is quite ready to preach the gospel boldly (I have helped found several small house-churches and travel periodically to preach), but strongly disagree with your comments and this forum being an appropriate context for religious discussions.

First, I come here to learn about Y2K and, even more, how to prepare practically for Y2K. Spiritual preparation is vital for Christians but it is not the purpose of Ed Yourdon's forum and the way Christians approach that would not be relevant to non-Christians anyway.

I understand perfectly why non-Christians (not all, but many) are offended by crude efforts to convert, exhort or blame them religiously here.

Secondly, I don't want to be subjected on this forum to other theologies either, whether Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist or New Age.

Please join us at Pastor Chris' forum or email me privately to discuss this further. Have a wonderful Easter: He is risen indeed.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), April 03, 1999.

dinosour, I'm not an atheist, although it makes more sense than Christianity. I do consider myself a spiritual person. I have my beliefs but I will never, ever mention them to anyone unless they ask, and I will never try to get anyone to embrace my beliefs.

Concerning my "venom," telling me that prayer is an antidote, only increases my venom. I can feel my forked tongue begin to flick in and out right now. I didn't always have this nasty attitude about Christians. But it seems that once a nonChristian lets it be known that they don't buy into the Christian fantasy, of going to heaven, living happily ever after, sitting on your butt on a cloud, playing a harp, singing hymns, eating milk and honey, and suffering for century after century from utter boredom, then the nonbeliever become a challenge for Christians to convert. I'm joking of course about the heaven part as based on a "moldy old book," as "A" said, I think..

Reborn Again Christians and converts are the worst; they're more religious than the Pope.

Concerning Ed's beliefs, if he's a secular person, then good for him. But if he's a Christian, a Hindu, worships a Barbie doll, or an old COBOL programmers book, then I still don't feel venomous toward him because he has the great good sense to keep it to himself. In fact it's one reason I liked his book better than any others that I read; it didn't have a political, religious, social, sexual or economic agenda. It was about Y2K period. If he makes money on it, good. If he's wrong, good. If he's right, we were warned.

-- gilda jessie (jess@listbot.com), April 03, 1999.

BigDog:

What is Pastor Chris's web site address? Sorry, I've missed it. Please provide the crucial link. Danke.

Steven

-- dinosaur (dinosaur@williams-net.com), April 03, 1999.

Lon, Although I disagree with some of your theology,I must admit that I believe that my Heavenly Father has a great interest in helping His children to prepare for what may be hard times ahead for the world. I also am grateful for those such as Ed Yourdon who have given of their time unselfishly to try and impact as many as possible with the warning of trouble ahead.It is not my place to judge someones faith as it is ultimately God who will search the hearts of men.I can say the main thing is Jesus.Without His sacrifice we would all be toast.(to coin a phrase used on this forum alot) p.s. I am glad to see so many of His children and their responses in these threads Traveler

-- traveling stranger (robq@mindspring.com), April 03, 1999.

The link to Pastor Chris' site is http://greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a.tcl?topic=Y2K%20Forum

Big Dog, thanks for the offer, but I don't think it would be a good use of my time or yours for us to debate where we think one's religious beliefs should be aired.

IMHO, God and Y2K are intertwined and a forum like this is appropriate as is any other forum on this internet to weave God and His plan for people into. And since the Holy Spirit is the One who prompts believers to speak of salavation, I think we should tread lightly in telling people *this is not the place to preach the gospel*.

Respectfully,

pamela ;)

-- pamela (pamela4@hotmail.com), April 03, 1999.

Pamela, I agree with Big Dog. I would never go on Pastor Chris' forum and start a big proselytizing thread about my secular beliefs. I think it would be rude. You say," IMHO God and Y2K are intertwined and a forum like this is appropriate as is any other forum on this internet to weave God and His plan for people into." In my opinion that is typical of Christians, who always feel that what they want to say, takes precedence over what anyone else wants. In fact you are saying, I don't care if you're a believer, nonbeliever, don't want to hear it, have a different faith or belief, I'm going to talk about my faith anyway. So there!

And people wonder why I get so venomous about Christians and their mafioso tactics.

-- gilda jessie (jess@listbot.com), April 04, 1999.

Mafioso Tactics -->Mafia --> Hitler --> Removal of Freedom of Religion --> Removal of any *discussion* of Freedom of Religion--> I could carry this thru, but I won't. I appreciate all the posts here, but I still stand by Lon's right to post his beliefs regarding God in a forum designed to help people with Y2K issues.

Happy Resurrection Day!!

pamela ;)

-- pamela (pamela4@hotmail.com), April 04, 1999.

Scuse me for butting in, but Pamela,..Hitler was a confirmed deist...don't confuse/obfuscate history....Hitler knew the value of a religious system that demanded that people submit to higher authority, it went hand in hand with a governmental system that wanted to have absolute control over people. Aryans wanted women in the churches, the nurseries and the kitchen, and no where else. Nazis hated communists. Communists wanted to make their economic system a religion. Get some real history books,...don't just recite what you've be taught. Seek out some knowledge for yourself...gnosis...knowledge...early xians understood this.

-- Donna Barthuley (moment@pacbell.net), April 04, 1999.

Attention gilda jesse! If you read the Bible, God tells us to be a witness and to shine for Him. To be salt of the earth...to go out and preach the message of Salvation. I would heed His advice and warnings any day over yours!!! In the end, we will face Him, not YOU! All of us have to give an account to Him, not YOU! Call us fanatics or whatever...in the end it won't matter what YOU thought of all of us. We are just doing what the Lord asks us to do. I can see you saying...I didn't say anything unless they asked....Wonder what His response to that will be. You say that you are a spiritual person...well, when we are lead by the Holy Spirit to witness, we are to obey Him. In Matthew...Jesus says "You must be Born Again!" So don't be so harsh on the born again Believers.

-- <(((((>< (ShineJesus@Shine.net), April 05, 1999.

Gilda,

So you are into TP, rice and beans, and self-sufficiency? Remember, all your hard work can be wiped out in a minute...one terrorist act, one fire, one tornado...Then who are you going to turn to for help? Nothing wrong with preparing...just don't put all of your trust in preps. Been there, done that...doesn't work.

God is in control whether anyone wants to believe it or not. What you believe doesn't change the outcome in the end. Only your outcome. "The devils believed and trembled"

-- hinds foot (caught off guard@y2k.com), April 05, 1999.

Donna,

your not butting in at all! ;) Thanks for your perspective.

pamela

-- pamela (pamela4@hotmail.com), April 05, 1999.