Maybe the same reason that I can't type.

-- Puddintame (achillesg@hotmail.com), April 02, 1999

Answers

Most of the Pollys are Liberals whose belief-system is built on a foundation of lies taught by Government school and mass-media. Getting others to believe as they do reinforces their own shakey belief system.

-- youasked (youasked@answer.com), April 02, 1999.

I have noticed that also. A thread under this one was written by a polly. He sounded really upset that nothing happened yesterday. It is as if they are waiting for a "sign" to convince them to start preparing.

-- Linda A. (adahi@muhlon.com), April 02, 1999.

The pollys worry that the incoming tide will wash away their sand castles. They are the ones who fear. The prepared have looked the beast in the eye, recognized it for what it may bring, and taken specific actions. The polly sees thunderclouds and screams "my clothing is waterproof!" The GI buys an umbrella.

-- Spidey (in@jam.com), April 02, 1999.

Way deep down inside, in a place they may not even be conscious of, there is fear that maybe, just maybe, perhaps, God forbid it, but what if the GIs are right?

They will NEVER admit that, but I think that's what it is.

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), April 02, 1999.

"Most GIs are calm?"

...they are as long as you don't upset their carefullly constructed apocalyptical fantasies. They then tend to blow the proverbial gasket...

-- Y2K Pro (2@641.com), April 02, 1999.

Nothing in the world would suit me better than to be wrong about my GI position...and everything acquired in preparation will be used, only over a longer period of time.

Preparations lend me the peace of mind nothing else can provide. I really don't understand why some folks find my peace of mind so offensive.

-- Charles R. (chuck_roast@trans.net), April 02, 1999.

GI's aren't calm. They are frenzily building their little fantasy world, hoping the world will end (given they've been such a failure in the current world). And they *really* get frenzied if anyone questions their fantasies.

It's going to be funny after y2k when all their hopes get dashed.

-- xxx (pr@fd.com), April 02, 1999.

We sure missed ya, unc. You never were one to mince words ;-)

-- Tim (pixmo@pixelquest.com), April 02, 1999.

Y2K Pro, Glad to know you're still tuned in. The thing that really drove home the point of the thread title was a radio talk show yesterday afternoon in Raleigh on 680-AM. Y2K was one of the topics. I was surprised at the number of callers. The thing that surprised me most was the number of GI's who had done serious preparation. Made me look like a total newbie GI.

There were several other observations from that talk show. Of the GIs,there were more women than men who called in. About a 3-1 ratio. The only Pollys who called in were males.

The GI's described sometimes extensive preparations and community awareness efforts. It would be fair to describe their efforts as energetic, but there was no Angst in their voices.

The Pollys were angry at the GIs and said so. One guy said if he heard another GI he was going to run off the road (he was driving and talking). Other GIs were somewhat less demonstrative, but still exhibited bitterness.

So I'm driving along thinking, man, this is ironic. Those who think that there could be real supply problems are collected, and those who say there will be no problems are steaming like pressure cookers.

Just another observation of a time out of balance?

-- Puddintame (achillesg@hotmail.com), April 02, 1999.

The pollys who post to this forum are for the most part trolls. Therefore to paint all pollyannas with this broad brush would give you a misrepresentation of Pollyanism as it stands today. The same could be said of the many GI's who call into radio shows or appear on telvesion talk shows. The media loves foolish looking people. Therefore, to the average joe it appears all GI's are panicky when this is actually very far from the case.

-- RobbY2K (robby2k@uno.com), April 02, 1999.

Brilliant observations folks. This is first-class intelligence. I have glimmer of hopes when I read that there are still people that use their brains and not their emotions to come to conclusions.

The liberal pollyannas that posted here on this thread back-up all the points that all of you have made. Logic of course doesn't even fit into their responses. They're idiots.

>>"..they are as long as you don't upset their carefullly constructed apocalyptical fantasies. They then tend to blow the proverbial gasket... ">>Y2K PRO

Emotionally that analysis makes sense to a them. Logically of course, they don't consider that we have families, friends and careers we want to see grow, prosper and mature. They don't consider the fact that it is instinctive for people to protect themselves from danger and survive. They don't consider that all of us have something called "Hope" and a desire for peace, tranquility and stability in our own lives. They would rather label us as "Hopers of doom". I've NEVER met ONE person who fits the label these idiots have constructed for us.

That is because as all of you stated, their belief system, their "god" is government, technology and the emotional thought-process that makes up our modern-day Krypton.

They also have this funny little belief that the horrors that occur in other areas of the world - will NEVER happen here, and that if they do, we will fix them and prevent calamity.

Y2K, politics and yes, even religion is now one big battleground. The war is ideology, and polly's are Socialist in nature, while many GI's are self-reliant, which you cannot have in a Socialist utopia, thus the conflict.

We are in a culture war folks. EVERY isuue in this country is now drawn into this war. Education, Government, Guns, Drugs, Taxes, Cigarrettes, Prayer, Automobiles, Money, Child rearing, Health care, and now yes...Y2K.

The battles are being fought all around us. The question is...Which side wins? If the Liberals do, government and community will regulate and control everything from the way you think to what you do...Y2K preps included. If the self-sufficient win, we will return to one of the root causes of how we became a great nation. Heck, we might actually be able to survive the effects of WWIII AND Y2K.

Of course THAT'S quite ridiculously optimistic.

But no, I would rather get infuriated at those that are picking on my desire for the return to Medievality and barbarism. After all, that's all I hope for.

Logic....it's a beautiful thing.

-- INVAR (gundark@aol.com), April 02, 1999.

Y2KPro--pardon my prigishness, but the adjectival form of apocalypse is 'apocalyptic,' not 'apocalyptical.' You wouldn't want to come across as a beer-drinkin', truck-drivin' trailer-parkin' dullard.

-- Spidey (in@jam.com), April 02, 1999.

I am a self sufficient G.I. and have D.G.I./D.W.G.I./Pollyanna family members. Not a religiously applied G.I....I am much more relaxed due to my preparations and am aware of the underpending tension family members are going through. The real point of all this IS: I am a liberal with a brain ...not an oppressed, uptight, judgemental type. If you really want to make a difference.....STOP LABELING LIBERALS and STOP LABELING CONSERVATIVES....that is real D.G.I. behavior. Everyone is unique. I figured that all the wallstreet stock buying advocates who are not 100% Liberal are not taking into account all the economic impact(s) that may come from Y2K. People are creatures of habit...they do what they do best. Whatever the Livelihood may be and who ever they are associated with.....They, We all must think and process this Y2K information independently without outside pro and con crap to deal with.....screw this Us vs. Them attitude. Keep informing yourself. More importantly.....stay objective and stop wasting time subjecting yourselves to LABELS.......there is already too much to think about.

WJT 4-2-99

-- wjt (wjturner@swbell.net), April 02, 1999.

"We are in a culture war folks"... and "Logic....it's a beautiful thing."

Tis to laugh. If the GI construct was simply to prepare oneself for a lack of services in the event of an emergency, then this discussion would never happen. It's not that though is it? "We are in a culture war folks" is the heart of the real issue.

People like INVAR see our world broken down into the simplistic: Liberals - BAD!!! Conservatives - Good!!! To them, that is what this is all about - a hope (need?) that Y2K will rid the world of Commies and Socialists.

The growing realization that Y2K will not be the apocalypse that they hoped for, and their "Culture War" will have to be fought on a different battle ground, will,I'm sure, be a bitter pill to swallow for the INVAR's of the world.

Oh, and Puddintame, perhaps the reason that those who do not follow your religious doctrine (The Cult of GI) seem so unpleasant, may be a reaction to the absolutism of your moral fervor. There is none so arrogant as those who have a calling. "So, of course I want to see y2k bring down the system, all over the world. I have hoped for this all of my adult life." -- Gary North

-- Y2K Pro (2@641.com), April 02, 1999.

Some observations:

Preparation PREVENTS Panic. Lack of preparation will CAUSE panic.

I wouldn't call all pollys liberal. Yes, many have such great faith in big gov't that they're sure Uncle Sugar would never let such bad things happen to us. But I know plenty of Rush-lovin' conservatives who have such great faith in "the free market" that they're sure the captains of industry would never let such bad things happen to us.

I wouldn't call all GIs calm, either. I know a few with basements full of beans, bullets, and blankets who are having trouble sleeping at night and getting ulcers.

I think the main reason it seems pollys get so enraged at GIs is because if the GIs are right, the pollys are in big trouble. It's one thing to debate politics, social issues, sports, etc. But when it comes to y2k, the underlying message of the GI argument is: "If I'm right, then you're not only wrong, you're also in BIG trouble." The only other issue which evokes such anger is sharing the Christian Gospel. The underlying message here is: "If I'm right, then you're not only wrong, you're also going to hell." Unlike religious views, where we'll have to wait a number of decades to find out who's right (unless you croak sooner), with y2k we ought to have a pretty good idea about a year from now who was right and who was wrong.

We live in interesting times. Enjoy the ride.

-- rick blaine (y2kazoo@hotmail.com), April 02, 1999.

As a fiscal moderate, socially liberal GI who is well and widely known to use their brain and logic, I appreciate your post WJT. I get very weary of the name game. I don't normally agree with Y2KPro as he/she comes across as too bitter and baiting for my tastes, but folks, Y2KPro is not necessarily the poster person for liberalism. And exactly what is liberlism on an international forum anyway? I believe the definition changes depending upon the nation and political system. Let's try to have an open mind here on this of all forums please.

-- Ramp Rat (Aviation_R_us@noname.nocity), April 02, 1999.

WJT, stop labelling???

I find it amusing that Liberals always accuse the self-reliant of that which they themselves engage in. Doesn't work with me pal.

The labels applied to us GI's that are preparing were initiated by the very government, agencies and state-run media that are supposedly chairing task forces to ready the nation for Y2K. Most polly's and trolls spit out the same mantra they get from the above sources. All label, all spin, no concrete proof, just implications.

Labels is how Democrats, Liberals and Socialists currently demonize their ideological opponents. It's what the populace gloms onto. It's a technique that works, which is why they are now applying it to Y2K preparers and those trying to alert us to the Y2K problem.

The "Us" and "Them" labels were perfected by our current White House Occupant as a political tool to achieve victory. Labels dear sir, are not the tool-of-choice for the self-reliant. We simply call what we see and hear for what it is - then WE are derrided for being extreme and judgemental. Stop labelling??.... give that argument a rest.

Who exactly was it that first coined the label "Right-wing Conspiracy"?, thus labelling ANYONE that ojected to Clinton's policies as part of that so-called "Conspiracy". Who was accused of being "Extremists" during the budget battles of '95 and '96?

Who suggested that stockpiling more than a week's worth of food is "hoarding", thus labelling us who are preparing for major disruptions as "hoarders"????

Creating scapegoats is a tried-and-true method for tyrants seeking to shift blame and enact political policies. The self-reliant are not fooled into buying that technique.

And WJT...when exactly did it become a sin to judge wisdom from folly, and right from wrong????

I may be uptight and judgemental by your definition....but it keeps me alive, well, happy and out of trouble.

-- INVAR (gundark@aol.com), April 02, 1999.

Lets see: I am a programmer/systems analyst with over 10 yrs experience.

I have been aware of Y2K for over 4 years and have been doing contract remediation for most of that time.

I have started a community Y2K group, given Y2K preparation talks in several companies, held Y2K discussions with CIO's from across the country all in the hopes of raising awareness about the problem and fostering community spirit to deal with it.

I have been cursed, yelled at, blamed, been told that Y2K is all MY fault by more Polly's and DGI's than I can count.

And yet I continue to try to facilitate understanding and try to help these Polly's and DGI's to at least be aware that there is a problem and try to help them prepare (in the amount they want) for it.

And now I am told by some polly that I have >>"..carefullly constructed apocalyptical fantasies.... ">>Y2K PRO

Excuse me Y2kPro and some of you other Polly's....I can think of a great many ways that I would rather spend my time. But you see I believe in trying to help my fellow man rather than getting in his face and telling him what a fool I think he is.

BTW I am a realist - I don't have time for apocalyptical fantasies....

Y2K is coming and whether it is a 10 or a 4 I truly hope you don't get run over by it.

ExCop

-- ExCop (ExCop@excop.com), April 02, 1999.

My earlier post, "Y2K and Risk" outlined the strengths of a free market economy as it related to Y2K problems. It was a calm, well- reasoned article. My ideas were quite conservative (in economic terms).

Some of the responses were nothing more than base personal attacks. I was accused of having an "agenda." Others attempted to micro- analyze pieces of my article. Some of what I said was simply misunderstood. A few generous souls commended the article as thoughtful.

On the whole, the response from the "GI" community was rather shrill. The debate has become acrimonious on both sides, however, little can be gained by gross generalizations. I do not know a single person who posts on this board. Not a single person on this board knows me personally. There are a few simple questions we are engaged in examining. What will the impact of Y2K-related problems be? What are reasonable precautions to take? This could be a polite exchange of information and opinion. Thus far, I do not see either side holding the civility "high ground."

Mr. Decker

-- Mr. Decker (kcdecker@worldnet.att.net), April 02, 1999.

Liberals and Conservatives are both worn out names with almost the same meaning these days. Same can be said for Democrats and Republicans - they all pretty much vote the same, except under conditions when the hot light of the media is shining in their chambers.

That said I must say I still consider myself a Liberal in the terms I learned it in the 60's. However in the current culture war, and yes INVAR, I absolutely agree that is one of the currents enlivening humankind, I see the lines more accurately delineated by the terms Socialist and Libertarian.

Y2kPro, how come you have never chimed in on one of my nitty gritty threads, or when I have responded with some nitty gritty in someone else's thread? I feel left out.

What about you TrollMaria? Mutha?

Where were you guys when Pam and I posted the Feb 24th Joint Committee y2k hearing in Sac, Calif material?

If you would post substance I would have a lot more respect for you. You guys are lightweights.

I notice that the bump in the road people attack those who are preparing because those who are preparing interpret pretty much the same data differently than they do. Talk about an ideologically driven Culture War!

-- Mitchell Barnes (spanda@inreach.com), April 02, 1999.

The Liberal-Conservative issue is a red herring. I have been a "Liberal" all my life (more than 50 years)_and_ I have worked very hard to be self-sufficient, self-reliant, and to help others be that way also. This is not an either/or situation. Everyone will be affected by YK. The self-sufficient will be better off, presumably, but the potential magnitude of the problems dwarfs even the "best laid plans of mice and men."

"I think the main reason it seems pollys get so enraged at GIs is because if the GIs are right, the pollys are in big trouble. It's one thing to debate politics, social issues, sports, etc. But when it comes to y2k, the underlying message of the GI argument is: "If I'm right, then you're not only wrong, you're also in BIG trouble." "

This is what I've experienced. I was baffled by the RAGE of some of the people closest to me, with whom I expected to work cooperatively to prepare. They REFUSE to research the probabilities. They are adamant that nothing "bad" can happen, will happen, could happen - period. So I've just learned to shut up and continue my preps in my own liberal, self-sufficient way.

I wouldn't be Bill Clinton for all the gold in Ft. Knox. Impeachment may look like a lost golden opportunity in the rear view mirror - because in spite of his failings, I know he has a very human heart. He is trying to ride/guide a global cataclysm with kite string for reins. The human story is about to reach another denouement.

-- (Liberal GI@leading.edge), April 02, 1999.

As a quick (30-second) exercise, here are some of the calm, rational, reasoned arguments for which GI's are so justifiably patting themselves on the back. These are all from new and neighboring threads. They address issues and facts in fairly typical GI fashion. Whoever says Pollys are unique in their unreason seems to be suffering from a wildly self-serving misperception at best.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

I knew that there would be trolls that would not understand this thread, Norm, Lisa, Y2kpro, and other.Paul didn't immediately come to mind. Paul, get a clue will you?

-- Mike (boxman9186@aol.com), March 31, 1999.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Mike,

You obviously haven't been around very long. Paulyanna has been clueless for a long time.

-- Nabi Davidson (nabi7@yahoo.com), April 02, 1999.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, That's the most assinine post I've ever seen. Your an idiot. Well, maybe that's too nice. Go crawl in your morbid hole somewhere and do something to yourself.

-- You're (An@idiot.com), April 02, 1999.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Doomslayer must be from GNIAFBI. This is typical over there. God help us came May 15, when they will have no place to play. We are about to be overrun by morons. <:)=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), March 30, 1999.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Uh, what was the title of this thread again?

Y2KPro--pardon my prigishness, but the adjectival form of apocalypse is 'apocalyptic,' not 'apocalyptical.' You wouldn't want to come across as a beer-drinkin', truck-drivin' trailer-parkin' dullard.

-- Spidey (in@jam.com), April 02, 1999.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), April 02, 1999.

I see anger emenating from both sides on this issue. On one side, which is mislabeled "pollyanna", is the fear that the misinformation which is so prevelant on the internet, newspapers, talk shows, etc ad nauseum will inspire an unfounded panic. This panic will interfere with legitamate Y2K remediation, thus causing a preventable disaster.

The other side, wrongly identified as "Get It" when confronted with the above fear is uable to answer it in a cohesive manner. The most common answer is an acidulous sounding "Yes, but I won't have to go grocery shopping for a long time.

-- Conservative Optimist (labeling@my.self), April 02, 1999.

Ahhhh, Y2K Pro. You've proved yourself to my point. Your ideology truly revealed.

You are one of the GOOD because of your open-mindedness and objectivism aren't you? You are better than we simple-minded right and wrong types. You are an elite, because you know better - right?

You are an imbecilic moron. Arguing with you would be useless.

However, to point out to others what a blathering idiot you are, a few ponts:

1. I never said, implied or even suggested that the Self-reliant WANT Y2K to be a disaster in order to rid the world of Commies, Socialists or anyone else for that matter. That's the LABEL you assume all of us GI's have. But since you brought it up... If you want to be a commie or a Socialist, fine. Just go do it in another country as the governmental ideology of those belief systems are diametrically opposed to the foundation of freedom this nation was founded on.

2. Liberals: Bad - YES. Liberal ideology is all about intentions and feeling good about themselves not about facts or results. Notice I said "Liberal Ideology", NOT a Liberal Person. They may be a decent person...just misguided - IMHO - which I still have a right to, contrary to what others think.

3. "We are in a culture war .. is the heart of the issue" YES. WHY? Who put it there? Who chose to incorporate Y2K as part of a cultural battleground? (NO, Gary North is not the correct answer).

4. As I said, I know NO ONE that wants a Y2K Apocalypse, so drop that bullshit mantra already - I'm sick of it.

5. The reason idiots like Y2K Pro have a " reaction to the absolutism of your moral fervor" is they can't stand those that stand on principle and are unwavering and they can't stand Truth. It reveals their belief system as fragile and false.

The morally intolerant - (notice Y2K Pro's label of Puddintame) are the WORST kind of people according to idiots like Y2K Pro. Morally intolerant refers to anyone that believes in right or wrong based on Judeo-Christian values or stands on a belief that is opposed to theirs, and they refuse to be "Open-Minded" about it.

GI's and our "religion" is something these idiots cannot tolerate, because they know what's better for us than we do.

Stuff it Pro.

-- INVAR (gundark@aol.com), April 02, 1999.

INVAR:

As an exercise in tolerance, your post can hardly be better.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), April 02, 1999.

Computers shut off in Y2k test

-- none (none@none.none), April 02, 1999.

Y2K Pro,

If the GI construct was simply to prepare oneself for a lack of services in the event of an emergency, then this discussion would never happen. It's not that though is it? "We are in a culture war folks" is the heart of the real issue.

When you make your repeatedly iodic statements like that, I see an image of Whoppie (-1 sp?) Goldberg, looking you in the eye and going ... Pffttt!

You have created your own war. But then, you probably do that in all aspects of your life.

*Sigh*

Prepared GIs tend to be calmer. Preparation feels good and releases stress and tension.

GIs are people who can (fairly) easily embrace change.

The DGI resistors, are like ostriches with buried heads. They cannot and will not accept that things can change on a dime. (Try being in a 6.7 earthquake sometime, so you get the concept of instantaneous change). The DWGI often become belligerent in defending their entrenched belief. They are not learning lifes lessons, IMHO.

Just notice the seasons. We are surrounded by change. Its natural.

We are surrounded by life events that change daily. Its just sensible to be better prepared for the daily unknown, that not. Its also sensible to be self-reliant, within a community group.

Thats getting it.

Diane ...

... a liberal/conservative/middle grounder -- depending on the issue at hand, and personal life experience -- labels are deceptive and usually completely inaccurate, IMHO 2.

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), April 02, 1999.

What a breath of fresh air! Thanks Mr. Decker. When I first started posting, my comments were quite innocent (trying to understand the reasoning) but the responses to my post always reduced to name calling. I try my best to ignore.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), April 02, 1999.

Oops, ...ignore the noise.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), April 02, 1999.

Thanks Flint.

I appreciate your sarcasm.

Quite frankly....I could care less if I'm perceived as "intolerant".

We're out of time.

We're in a war.

Destruction comes swiftly to those that are fools and ignore preparations.

-- INVAR (gundark@aol.com), April 02, 1999.

We are in a war?

Those who wish to behave poorly always can find a justification.

"This subject is too important for common courtesy, e.g. 'We are at war.' The people I am addressing are not 'worth' politeness. I have already tried civil language, the only thing they will understand is a good tongue lashing. I have a 'right' to free speech."

I find it difficult to accept any justification of boorish behavior. Unfortunately, the anonymous environment of the Internet seems to breed contempt. Most of the people I converse with each day, face to face, behave reasonably well. Perhaps my visage frightens them, but I like to think most people are relatively polite. Move into a more anonymous environment like the freeway, and good behavior seems to distintegrate.

I pride myself on posting (and driving) with courtesy. One can only hope one considerate act will encourage others.

Mr. Decker

-- Mr. Decker (kcdecker@worldnet.att.net), April 02, 1999.

Invar - In a war?? Man, you are a trip!!! I read your posts and just sit back and wonder - exactly how far above the ground was he when he slipped out of his momma's arms?

Deano

-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), April 02, 1999.

BEGIN QUOTE

But I do have some real "expertise" in a "niche" subject.

SURPRISE: My expertise is in.. YOU and your types. But the effect of the North/Yourdon Meme on people like you is a minor chapter in American History even though it is very interesting to me as a direct descendent of a line that goes back to the Know Nothings of the Mid- 1800s. Now we have the Net enabled one like you.."The Know Littles".

Just remember this: I was USMC and I learned to "take no prisoners". Academic niceties are for the "Mr. Deckers" and the Tea Party Set. I believe in direct frontal approach and exposing the Fear Mongers for what they are, cheap Quick Buck Artists or Political/Religious NUTS.

The danger is not from North or Yourdon doing anything. The real danger in Y2k is from the irrational actions their Bull Shit inspires. Ratcliffe addresses that in his ripping of Yourdon's 10 Year Depression Essay now. I said it last year: Yourdon knows NOTHING about Economics or Finance, thus any "scenarios" he dreams up with his keyboard and a glass of white wine, are FICTION that people like YOU... take as fact. You do so because you hide behind his constant chanting: "I, Ed Yourdonefor, have 30 years experience" and accept his views as yours.

When the "rush" from that isn't enough, you go out looking for more and find Gary North's IDIOTIC "Mad Max" craziness and then use that to justify whatever you do no matter what your Family or friends (if you have any) or neighbors might say.

Then,,, wrapped in your Cocoon of thinking insulation, you claim that ALL OTHERS are "in denial" or "don't know enough" or "are lying to themselves".

IN REALITY, it is people like YOU who can't deal with "reality".

Next year or several years from now, you will find another Y2k to shiver about.

North and Yourdon are not going to screw up OUR Country with their BS causing panic. It will end with North back in his hole under the rock he crawled out from and Yourdon retired by his FORMER Peers in I.T.

I'm fairly well known in the media but not to the public as the source of information on the "extremists" of Y2k. I have files on over 100 of them and willingly provide "deep background" to any legitimate writer or reporter for FREE. I can afford it.

It goes without saying that every file is available to the local and state Police and the Federal authorities who are now monitoring the Y2k Extremists in an effort to prevent any terrorism whether from domestic or foreign sources.

END QUOTE FROM GNIBFI

THE PAGE WITH THIS QUOTE

-- Lurk3 (lurk@lurks.lurking), April 02, 1999.

Deano,

If Y2k is even a "5," it will be more destructive to us than any war we've engaged in. Y2k remediation -so far- has proven more expensive than the entire Vietnam War, if I'm not mistaken. I find INVARs analogy of Y2k with War as particularly apt. Under these circumstances, the burden is on Polys to show that their irrational belief in the infinite problem-solving ability of the eternal and unconquerable State is valid. Those of us who do not worship Ceasar should not be compelled to justify what is, in the final analysis, a little extra shopping.

You can take a page from Mr. Decker's book on courtesy, however. If you work on your impulse-control now, you're less likely to get the shit kicked out of you later, in the aftermath.

Prepared.

-- Prepared (wondering@believers.now), April 02, 1999.

Many 'Pollys' are control freaks -- control freaks of the political kind. So were the Know-Nothings of the 1850s.

-- Lurk3 (lurk@lurks.lurking), April 02, 1999.

CAn yOU aLL SEE wHY INvAR BuGS DIEteR SO?????? jaCKaL!!!!! diETer cANNOt sAY WHaT IS RigHt fOR EVerYONe, BuT INvAR CAN!!!!! IS thAt noT So??????? God iS On hIS SIDe, ANd taLks TO Him peRSOnaLLy!!!!!! wHy doEs dieTEr tHINk thAT INvaR WOulD HAvE DOne niCELy iN 1930s geRMAnY?????? HuH????? CAn yOu nOt heAR THe bLOOD LusT For baTTLe iN His ranTIngS??????? caN YoU Not smELL tHE CIrcuITS BUrNing In hiS FRUstrATED DESire To crUsh thOSe wHO Are His MOraL INferIOrS???????

zeALotS SCarE DIetER NeaRLy aS MUCh as skuLLMucKERIsH foOLs, DO theY NOt?????? IDIot HyeNAS!!!!!

-- Dieter (questions@toask.com), April 02, 1999.

Every "doomer" has, in the back of the mind, the worry that they are wrong, and come Jan 1 they will be viewed as a FOOL!

Every "pollyanna" has, in the back of the mind, the worry that they are wrong, and come Jan 1 they will be .... Well, tough to say, the possibilities are pretty horrendous, quite frankly!!

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.com), April 02, 1999.

None, you are an idiot.

-- Someone (who@knows.you), April 02, 1999.

Many of the doomers will not even be close to being ready if y2k gets as bad as some are predicting.

-- social butterfly (socbuty@y2kersare.spammers), April 02, 1999.

What? I just posted a link to a news article. How does that make me an idiot?

-- none (none@none.none), April 02, 1999.

Look, go ahead and prepare all you want if it makes you feel better. Just don't go telling other people that we're definitely doomed.

-- Doomslayer (1@2.3), April 02, 1999.

Because you posted the same link in a number of threads today that don't really apply, the Ottawa one comes to mind. If you wanted everyone to see it, why not just post a question? And I know who you are.

-- Someone (who@knows.you), April 02, 1999.

Pollyannas don't wash their clothes, they don't shower, they don't brush their teeth, they're not college educated, they dress their children funny, and they ARE CLUELESS!!

-- RobbY2K (robby2k@uno.com), April 02, 1999.

Ahem, I was just playing around. I didn't actually mean to post that.

-- RobbY2K (robby2k@uno.com), April 02, 1999.

Has someone at GNIBFI been at war with us since February?

-- (right@here.now), April 02, 1999.

APR99 status:

Where I am located in northwestern Ohio, I've encountered very few GIs. They are concerned and sometimes get a little downcast when I probe them for deeper reflections. They know bad times will happen, and there is no joy when they contemplate future chaos.

Then there are the DGI mockers, some of whom say they can't do anything. The rest are DGI procrastinators who want a CRUCIAL sign to take action. I have not met locally any Pollys "ready to blow a gasket". If anything, I'm the one who is ready to blow a gasket over their obtuse stupidity! But I don't. I just turn away and move on... It's not worth the effort anymore to waste my time. I perceive the DGIs think their time is also being wasted, but the day will come when they will remember my warnings and be filled with panic over their negligence.

Cyberspace is an entirely different realm. Who knows exactly who is bluffing and lying? We can touch each other with posted facts and opinions, but we are not face-to-face. With so many false E-mail addresses floating around, who can verify the sources?

Real GIs make preparations. Real DGIs spew poppycock.

-- dinosaur (dinosaur@williams-net.com), April 02, 1999.

TO THE MORONIC ASSWIPE AT GNIABFI THAT WROTE THE ABOVE QUOTE POSTED BY LURK3:

First: Fuck You.

Second: Them's fightin' words asshole.

Third: Better ask Klinton to requisition some M-1 Abrams and some A- 10's to help your little Gestapo Brigade.

Fourth: 'cause if ya show your worthless piece of traitor-ass 'round here - we're commin out blastin'!

Fifth: Our powder is VERY dry and we are locked and loaded.

Sixth: Bring it on big boy. We's waitin fer y'all.

I hated reading about the Gestapo in Nazi Germany. I'll be damned if I give into them here.

No showers for us. We die free men.

-- INVAR (gundark@aol.com), April 02, 1999.

Puddintame:

I guess there's no need to wander off to adjacent threads for illustrations that your perceptions are wildly off base. INVAR alone, by vigilant and valiant effort, proves you wrong repeatedly and consistently. INVAR is the GI's GI. Who could ask for a better example of the calm reason of those who Get It?

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), April 02, 1999.

Well Flint my dear fellow,

I shall not sit idly by and allow others to make veiled threats upon those like myself that choose to prepare....and do or say nothing.

I do not take kindly to having idiots make threats about "turning" people in to Authorities that THEY deem "dangerous", for simply becoming self-reliant. That is a direct threat to my freedom.

And yours.

Calm reason is not appropo when one is threatened by insane morons.

But obviously as Andy stated earlier....

You won't ever get it.

Logic is not your strong suit.

I do not represent or speak for GI's. I represent myself, and my beliefs, which at one time, made up the majority of thinking in this nation. I am self-reliant....and all that that encompasses.

But you dear sir don't think......you emote.

-- INVAR (gundark@aol.com), April 02, 1999.

"Calm reason is not appropo when one is threatened by insane morons."

actUAllY, thAt is APProPo, IS It nOt??????? oR Is iT BEtteR To joIN TheM?????????

-- Dieter (questions@toask.com), April 02, 1999.

OK, Someone. As I said on the other thread, NAME NAMES! I don't know what you are talking about with the Ottawa remark. Your little mind games don't work!

-- none (none@none.none), April 02, 1999.

INVAR,

Calm down ... again. None of it, and certainly the die-hard clueless, is worth blowing a gasket over.

Take a break, enjoy the holiday, and remember what it's all about.

This is NOT Masada. Yet.

History doesn't always repeat. It tends to morph.

Peace.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), April 02, 1999.

Never wrestle with a pig. You'll both get dirty and the pig will love it.

-- (old@macdonald.farm), April 02, 1999.

Entertainment at its finest!heh heh heh....

-- Mutha Nachu (---@softlywhisperingbreeze.com), April 05, 1999.

For your perusal.

-- (somebody@at.work), April 30, 1999.

Is there a link missing from the post above?

-- Puddintame (achillesg@hotmail.com), April 30, 1999.

Now, nearly a month after this thread first appeared, the definitions of 'calm' and 'blown gasket' have become much clearer.

Doomist: You vile, stupid, utter harebrained idiot!

Puddintame: Yes, a studied and accurate description. Very objective.

Polly: Recent testing has shown your concerns to be unfounded.

Puddintame: There it is! A blown gasket! Just like I said.

Our ability to see what we expect knows no bounds.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), April 30, 1999.

-- youasked commented:

"Most of the Pollys are Liberals whose belief-system is built on a foundation of lies taught by Government school and mass-media. Getting others to believe as they do reinforces their own shakey belief system."

Thank You, -- youasked, how succinct of you !!

Any Polly's care to STAND up and claim your not??

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), April 30, 1999.

Er..I hate to point this out to yall but there's a really big crack in the sky and all this yelling is making it worse.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), April 30, 1999.

"Why are most GI's calm while Pollys (at least those who post and comment publicly) are always ready to blow a gasket? "

Maybe because irrational panic is infuriating.

-- J D (jxd29@hotmail.com), April 30, 1999.

Look who is panicing now!

-- Joe Six-Pack (Average@Joe.Blow), July 03, 1999.