This report from Reuters at 12:07 GMT (Greenwich Meantime?)

http://www.sportsweb.com/news_web/news/GLANCE-G:REUTERS/GLANCE-G:REUTERS-nL0185494.11-25-32.html

What a mess.

-- FM (vidprof@aol.com), April 01, 1999

Answers

Did you ever have any doubt they would? Got body bags?

-- SCOTTY (BLehman202@aol.com), April 01, 1999.

I think this whole NATO action is a HUGE mistake! We have no right to interfere in a civil war. We are making things worse that they were before! This may well lead to WWIII. I worry about the Russian's reactions. This will be a serious problem. If we send ground troops, that they will be stuck in Serbia, and will probaly die there, as y2k will cripple our ability to function properly. We should pull out now!

-- Crono ((Crono@timesend.com)), April 01, 1999.

Maybe this is why the government ordered 25 Million Body Bags.

I don't know how reliable this source is. I found it yesterday, it states that DOW Chemical confirmed the order as taking place in August of 1998. I have not been able to find any other info about it.

Mark

-- Mark Mastrorilli (mastrorilli@hotmail.com), April 01, 1999.

This is the second time I've heard about the 25 million body bag order, but the first time I've seen a manufacturer named. If this is based on fact, I would assume it's sensational enough news that some journalist somewhere would try to verify it and write a story about it.

Dow chemical is a huge company, so I assume that employees in its "body bag manufacturing division," might be willing to talk off the record. First step: find out out whether Dow does indeed manufacture body bags. Second step: find out where. Third step (for an enterprising journalist), get a job there. Fourth step: break the story. Otherwise it just seems like too fantastic a claim to be taken seriously.

-- FM (vidprof@aol.com), April 01, 1999.

This was planned before the first bomb fell. Aggrandizement of executive power. Shoring up the national security apparatus in time for the bank runs.

-- Spidey (in@jam.com), April 01, 1999.

Last night on 60 Minutes II, (which I missed, but saw a clip on Nightline) Dan Rather asked Klinton, about ground troups & the language used so far..."I don't INTEND to send in troups.." "we're not PLANNING to send ground troups..." Klinton responded that 'he chose his words very carefully' (yah, like that's a huge revelation) he seemed to make it clear that, in his mind, he's never made any promises NOT to send in ground troups.

For me, who had assumed this anyway, seeing him actually say it really made me sick/angry/digusted. Not surprised, however.

We're not talking about denying some b.j.'s here, we're talking about having the integrity to point out that this is a war, not 'peacekeeping' & if we are there, our soldiers could & probably will come home in body bags. He has no balls, & no honor. If we don't slither out of there proclaiming victory soon('we have seriously impeded Milky's ability to make war'), then ground troups are inevitable.

I just wish we had a different Commander in Chief.

-- Deborah, mmmmmCoffeeeeeee; good morning. (infowars@yahoo.com), April 01, 1999.

My brilliant father used to always say:

"If you want to know what the government IS going to do....

just listen to what they say they ARE NOT going to do.

-- Sheila (sross@bconnex.net), April 01, 1999.

it's amazing - I mean I realize billy jeff has no knowledge of military history, but at least *some* of his advisors must know what happened when the Germans tried to occupy Yugoslavia during WWII - the partisans ate them for lunch...tied down three divisions for most of the war, just trying to (unsuccessfully) enforce 'peace'.

Arlin

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), April 01, 1999.

Its simply astounding that no-one ever learns from history

-- dick of the dale (rdale@coynet.com), April 01, 1999.

William the Conqueror?

NOT!

-- Tim (pixmo@pixelquest.com), April 01, 1999.

The Serbs *want* us to send in ground troops. They want to slaughter and humiliate. And here they go:

Yugoslavia-US-S oldiers

[ For Educational Purposes Only ]

4/1/99 -- 12:37 PM

BELGRADE, Yugoslavia (AP) - Three U.S. soldiers captured by Yugoslav forces in Kosovo will face a military trial on Friday, the state news agency reported.

The Tanjug report said Jovica Jovanovic, a judicial official in Pristina, the Kosovo capital, said an authorized military court would conduct the trial of the three soldiers.
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-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), April 01, 1999.

For a brief look at just who these folks are and where this is all going on, check out this thread.

-- Hardliner (searcher@internet.com), April 01, 1999.

I agree with you that we should have never gone into Kosovo. It is a no win situation. But Mr. Bill Clinton (Billy Bob) did it, and now there can be no turning back.

The criminally insane genious has seen to that. A draft dodging President could not start a war, so he starts a bombing campaign. He knows this will result in great pictures of crying babies being carried by pathetic looking refugees. He knows our media is into sensationalizing everything, and will only show the most pathetic. I am sure thousands of Kosovovars 'bugged out' for fear of the bombs, but you won't hear that on T.V..

He knew when he said "I do not intend to send in ground troops" that thousands of Americans will see these pathetic refugees and call for an end. He knew that retired Generals and Senators would criticize for not sending in ground troops and start calling for their introduction. That way a pathetic draft dodger would be forced to do so, and can always blame them and fall back on the claim that he never intended to. He knew that events would further his goal, such as those three soldiers getting captured, would enable him, to advance this conflict. Via public support.

He is dangerously intelligent and calculating and a genious at shaping public opinion without taking any blame by forcing others to take the blame for him. He has no backbone, and you'll never get a straight answer out of him.

Don't let this happen. Support the troops yes, but don't forget Gore lying about not sending in ground forces, he said we would 'never' send in ground forces. Remember when you vote, because if you don't this will never stop. All the Democrats in gov. blindly following their liar, oops, I mean leader. All the Republicans without a backbone falling into Clintons plan beacause they are to stupid to learn about Clintons tactics after 8 years of getting beaten.

Say good-bye to all of them, they are worthless. Vote 'em out.

-- Kato (infowars@yahoo.com), April 01, 1999.

If Billy had to lead the charge, I bet he'd be thinking twice.

Talk about an example of a gutless wonder!

-- Faze the Nation (dazed@confused.com), April 01, 1999.

Uh-oh, this is happening quickly. Rumors of ground troops all week, now it's out in the open. This just up on MSNBC:

NATO may send troops to Kosovo

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-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), April 03, 1999.

One fundamantal question continues to haunt me:

If the latest Serbian War is a NATO operation, why is President Clinton making the decisions?

-- PNG (png@gol.com), April 03, 1999.

PNG, don't know, but watching Breaking News, see more & more directed at softening up weeple's acceptance for "ground invasion." Don't have time to post all the developments, and war isn't our first interest! but today NATO has bombed Bosnia & Macedonia; a video of Serbian atrocities is out by an Albanian refugee; WAR advances.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/ 255649.asp

NEW YORK, April 3  As the air war over Serbia intensifies, liberals and conservatives alike are calling for NATO to introduce ground forces into the conflict. On Saturday, NATOs leaders opened the door for ground troops, saying that a peace deal was not necessary for the deployment of an international military force. If ground forces were deployed, certain U.S. and European units would invariably be involved.

AS SATURDAYS news illustrated, the debate on whether ground troops should be deployed is well under way.

On one side of the American political spectrum are internationalists who argue ground forces are needed to avert the ongoing humanitarian disaster. On the other side, foreign policy conservatives argue that once war begins, whatever its merits, the United States must fight to win. And uniting all sides is a belief that air power alone will be inadequate to meet the objectives set by NATO.
..... [ snip ]

If they do decide to use ground troops, watch the debate on the Draft heat up. Chances are that before July the Draft is reinstated. Can anyone tell what the ages would be? Men 17-45? 45 by what date?

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-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), April 03, 1999.

I really don't want to start a new thread for this one. This is like a bad trip down memory lane. Cold war propaganda.

Link

Saturday April 3, 9:07 AM (EST) DM gets no orders from Yeltsin to begin military aid to FRY. MOSCOW, April 3 (Itar-Tass) - The Defence Ministry "has not received any instructions from the president of Russia to provide military assistance to Yugoslavia," a high-ranking official said. Colonel-General Leonid Ivashov, head of the Defence Ministry's Main Directorate for International Military Cooperation, said at a briefing at Itar-Tass on Saturday that the ministry is "taking measures to increase combat readiness" and is preparing several proposals of a military nature for the leadership of the country in connection with the escalation of aggression in Yugoslavia. One of these measures calls for withdrawing the Russian peacekeeping brigade from Bosnia. He said a high-level meeting is now being held in Moscow to discuss these proposals. Ivashov stressed that NATO's U.S.-led aggression against Yugoslavia involves "unprecedentedly inhuman steps". He said that 17 out of 21 targets which were hit by NATO's air strikes in Yugoslavia are civilian. "One round landed near a maternity house where about 40 expectant mothers were staying at the moment," he added. "I do not know how reckless one should be to deliver these strikes," he said. (END) So, do you think the part about the targets & the maternity house are true? Or are they propaganda????

Are Russian troops a bluff, or are they serious?

-- Deborah (infowars@yahoo.com), April 03, 1999.

We don't know, Deborah, but every day it escalates. American & Russian troops getting ready for ground combat. The world has gone insane, and most weeples we know are not even paying any attention to it! They're numb to it after years of CNN showing skirmishes. This one is different, with a dark weight of horrible incendiary karma sucking reason into a black void.

Can ANYBODY tell us what a draft would be? Men ages 17-45? Would a 45-year-old be exempt? What would the cut-off date be?

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-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), April 03, 1999.

off topic

Ashton & Leska, I sent you an e-mail.

-- Deborah (infowars@yahoo.com), April 03, 1999.

(sigh) o.k. another one that is off topic to this thread, I really don't want to start a new one for this, but I thought anyone reading this thread might be interested in this.

link

You may need to register to access.

Blast rocks Federal Security Service building in Moscow.

MOSCOW, April 4 (Itar-Tass) - A powerful blast rocked the Federal Security Service building in downtown Moscow last night at 03.00, Itar-Tass learnt from a duty officer at the Russian Emergencies Ministry who said that the explosion brought about no casualties.

Window glasses were smashed in surrounding buildings. The site of the blast is sealed off.

The yield of the explosive device was equal to one kilo of TNT. Investigative work is underway at the site of the incident.

(end)

Since it is/was a federal security building in Moscow, I thought it might be interesting to see if this gets any coverage. This was the only source I could find for this story, I don't know if it's just breaking or what.

-- Deborah (infowars@yahoo.com), April 04, 1999.

I'm posting to this thread so we can all watch this story develop from the original post.

This morning, Great Britain and France said they favored ground troops.

What's holding the U.S. back from making similar statements? Most likely, public opinion.

How does one sway public opinion? The plight of refugees. Anyone seen the refugee "massacre" video yet (allegedly smuggled out of Kosovo)? Piles of bodies with single bullet holes in their heads and necks?

Fasten your seatbelts. It could be a bumpy ride.

-- FM (vidprof@aol.com), April 04, 1999.

Drudge top 'o the page says: "FLASH: Senior NATO officers have drawn up a plan for an opposed entry by ground troops into Kosovo. The plan would involve 100,000-125,000 troops led by heavy armor and supported by mechanized infantry and attack helicopters..."

MSNBC says:
BELGRADE, April 4 NATO pledged on Sunday to intensify its air strikes on Yugoslavia, where it now aims to drive Belgrades armed forces out of Kosovo and make the region safe for Western troops to escort hundreds of thousands of refugees back to their homes. In a new development, the U.S. Pentagon confirmed that it is sending Apache attack helicopters to the conflict and 2,000 troops to support them."

The ground war will start today. There is a scramble to get logistics in place. Check AP, UPI, Reuters, BBC ... there's something more about it everywhere.

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-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), April 04, 1999.

Read this report:

Kosovar Says He Survived Burning of Bodies

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-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), April 04, 1999.

Oopsie, in the middle of all this some more China news has crept in:

Just up on AP Breaking News:

Report: Top Chinese military official sent Clinton $300,000

"LOS ANGELES (AP) - The head of Chinese military intelligence sent a Democratic fund-raiser in Southern California $300,000 in campaign donations to help President Clinton's reelection in 1996, the Los Angeles Times reported Sunday..."

Spy stuff and donation intrigue are hard to sort. The whole election process these days seems corrupt to me. But then I'm suspect of anybody *wanting* to run for office ... do the Chinese have any historic interest in Kosovo? Will they be joining the party?

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-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), April 04, 1999.