I need some sense of perspectivegreenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread
Argh- I just got off a LONG call from someone I know- her dime luckily. She was all worked up and I just managed to get her pissed I believe. She's doing nothing but Y2K- every waking moment of her life is spent on this. Her big thing is trying to get everyone else to pay attention. Now this is comendable, but she will not listen to any other perspective.
She's all frustrated because she is trying to get the local towns to "act". She's gotten group meetings together on Y2K and they have generally not gone the way she wants them to. Her basic belief is that EVERYTHING is going to fall. She thinks the US is going to declare martial law and round everyone up and put them in internment camps or some such. She says that entities such as the RedCross and FEMA will enlist citizens to be their agents to do this.
Now while I agree that much in existance may very well be toast, I can't figure why the US would bother rounding up people in rural areas that are prepared and put them in "camps" to protect them. (Cities I could imagine). She says I just don't get it.
Her meetings have fallen apart. She's been told by a vocifereous attendee that she needs a shrink bad. She doesn't agree.
Now- she's upset because I don't necessarily see it the way she does. I also believe personally, in reaching out to people on a 1:1 level as it happens; no radio shows for me. I also don't necessarily believe we need to get THE TOWN to DO something. I also accept the fact that not everyone will get it now- it may take awhile. And if they don't get it until too late- they may be toast as well. She thinks this is not acceptable.
I've tried to tell her that I'm taking the aproach of preparing as best we can, talking to others who want to discuss it and being prepared to provide what i can to those who need it. Anyway- what I'm asking all of you here is: what do you think? Do you really believe the buses will be ready to roll to round us all up? Do you really think we should do nothing else but warn people? She thinks I'm not doing my part when I say yes, but I also have to earn a living (I farm) and take care of my family. I can't talk about nothing but Y2K all day. Help. Your thoughts appreciated here...
-- anita (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 22, 1999
It is now Spring 1999. Any preparation above the level of personal is wishful thinking, except in the small rural communities (maybe). And time will run out to do even that at some point -- could be next month, could be in 6 months, who knows?
-- Jack (email@example.com), March 22, 1999.
You sound really on top of it, Anita, so I doubt there's much more to add. Maybe your friend hasn't banged her head into the wall on any subject as much as the rest of us have --- needs to learn that there is a point where you have to realize you've basically done all you can until the other party comes to their senses.
As head of a church board I've tried numerous times to get things started - the pastor is going to preach on "it" in fall - (sigh). Your friend will just have to accept what we've all experienced, or she WILL need a shrink.
-- Jon Johnson (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 22, 1999.
Perspective is what your friend needs. Remember that AA slogan: "....courage to change the things I can, serenity to accept the things I can't, wisdom to know the difference." IF our friends won't be persuaded by calm & rational argument, then that's just something we need to accept. If we're all truly "toast," then that's also something we need to accept.
Everyone dies eventually. All civilizations fall eventually. Could be, just maybe, western civilization's time is up, & we've just caught on to it sooner than our friends. Maybe not. Either way there's not a whole lot we can do about it. The time left to us is too precious to waste running in circles & acting crazy.
-- get (email@example.com), March 22, 1999.
I don't know about you or her, but I get tired of nothing but Y2K. After going through my routine of reading the postings, I am ready to talk literature, watch a movie, play with my kids, visit with my husband, maybe play a social game of cards with the neighbor. Too mucy Y2K is depressing, especially when there is nothing we can do to stop it from coming.
-- linda (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 22, 1999.
Anita, just felt I had a little "repaying" to do. You were kind enough to contribute your assistance to me re: a solar generator and I notice you frequently offer assistance to others on this b.b.
You say: >>I just managed to get her pissed I believe<<. But what really happened was "she managed to get herself pissed." That's what happens when we have "expectations" of other people--we get mad because they don't "act" the way we "expect" them to (we don't have that right--no 2 people are the same, so we can't expect someone else to think or feel as we do). Sounds like it's her problem, not yours. She'll end up with an ulcer & very few friends if she doesn't "get a grip."
We all can't be out there shouting & pushing. Besides, it's not going to do a whole of good at this point. If we all got out there now, they probably would come take us to camps!!!
I, for one, appreciate your help. Please don't stop! (I'm going to need your help again when I finish doing some more reading re: solar generators!!) As you could probably tell by my post last night, I had a breaking moment. But, as trying as the times are and as trying as other people can be we have to follow the convictions in our own hearts and move forward.
-- Joan (email@example.com), March 22, 1999.
It's my understanding from newswire reports a few months ago, that the FBI is increasing its efforts to monitor groups who may have a "revolutionary" (in their view) agenda, and were focusing in particular on "anti-government" (in their view) groups. I read this to mean the Timothy McVeigh types.
Keep in mind this whole new government focus on the potential for terrorist attacks in the United States, either foreign or domestically initiated.
I can't imagine the government rounding up ordinary citizens who would have a hard time paying their income taxes if they were living in camps.
I CAN imagine the government playing hard ball with anyone who would seek to damage a potentially Y2K weakened nation. Just my 2 cent's worth.
-- FM (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 22, 1999.
I want to address just one aspect to your post. What are the chances that the government will round up rural folk?
The answer is zero. There have been posts explaining the very low level of troops available to deal with the 120 largest cities.
I expect that the government does have plans to:
-- minimally patrol the largest cities.
-- cut off electricity from rural areas to direct power to cities
-- possibly reallocate other resources from rural areas to the cities
-- cut off the interstate to unregistered travel.
Again, these measures would be done inthe worst case situation. The implications are that if you live in a rural area, you may need to prepare for a long time because of the theft of local resources to try to keep cities alive.
Of course, this only substitutes one flavor of paranoia with another flavor.
Good luck with your friend.
-- David Holladay (email@example.com), March 22, 1999.
I sense at least two kinds of perspective problems in your post. One is the problem that different people who "get it" get different "its". The other is the problem experienced by people who feel strongly about an opinion and who try to convince others who have different opinions, or who feel much less strongly about similar opinions.
Both of these problems occur in various aspects of life, not only in the realm of potential Y2K problems. When two friends find themselves at different ends of a strong opinion, it can get to a point at which they might simply "agree to disagree" and try to avoid that topic.
Once it becomes clear that it is unlikely that either will persuade the other, continued "argument" will benefit neither, and may impair the friendship.
Relative to the totality of potential information about potential Y2K problems, the information that is currently available is very much like a small number of pieces of a large puzzle, mixed in with pieces of other puzzles. We can share our guesses about each piece, as well as our guesses about the outline of the puzzle. Some of the guesses can be quite scary, some can be reassuring. But in such a complex subject as potential Y2K problems, there is no basis for anyone to lay claim to such knowledge that they should insist that others accept a particular guess about the complete puzzle as being the most probably accurate one.
I do hope you and your friend can agree to disagree.
-- Jerry B (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 22, 1999.
You dont think Klinton and FBI arent going to come after us come y2k?? Sure they will put us all in camps if they can catch us. ALready camps are being built in hidden areas, especailly in national parks and such. After they take our guns they move us into the camps this is why FEMA is planning the evac plans. All this will come under guise of protecting us from terrorists then the liberals will kill us and brainwash our children and try to take GOD away from them. ALl this is being planned right now by Klinton and the FBI and the Abortionist Conspiracy. Remember what happened at Waco or Ruby Ridge and you will see what is coming. Y2k was planned by teh government all along so as to make the New World Order happen and mark us all with the Beast.
-- Billie Gunter (billieg@(nospam)irn.org), March 22, 1999.
My sympathy, both for you and your friend. Unless she gets some perspective she will not be able to cope- or help others cope- no matter what happens. Even if all the things she fears come to pass (and it is likely that some of them are mutually exclusive, by their very nature), she can only do something about the small part of them in her sphere of influence. Her attitude is the part of that sphere only she can determine. The only time she or you or I ever really HAVE is the present. I can live in a way that prepares me better for future challenges, as I imagine them, but I can only live and love now. I can't even presume I will experience that future- I may die tomorrow. I have six kids- if they are to become at all resilient in the face of potential suffering, they need hope and meaning that are not entirely dependent on outward circumstances, not more fear than is necessary to motivate them to reasonably responsible behavior. For that reason, I would probably avoid any 'preparation' or 'awareness' organization permeated with such a spirit of fear. Not because I see no need, but because I think the spirit in which we prepare for anything is as important as the mechanics of preparation.
-- Maria (email@example.com), March 22, 1999.
during the cuban missile crisis (clear and imminant danger) only a small minority of people had bomb shelters or bothered to dig up the back yard and build an expedient fallout shelter.
historically americans just never get it. Why should y2k be any different (especially given the low key media attention?)
-- firstname.lastname@example.org (email@example.com), March 22, 1999.
thanks you guys; I appreciate your words of support here. Lots of it was a big help, from the "serenity prayer" to the recognition of peoples expectations. I was also heartened to see that most of you didn't really believe that the buses were ready to roll and take us somewhere.....
I guess it's hard to see someone going from discussing basic prparedness stuff to totally losing it. It's also hard to deal with people trying to make you feel guilty for not trying to "do more" to save humanity. I guess I need to set limits as to what i will listen to and save my own sanity that way.....thanx again.
-- anita (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 22, 1999.
Linda: Why are you posting here if you are bored with Y2K? Go play and don't post here again if you don't have anything substantial to add. Not a flame my friend, just get tired of hearing people say that they are tired of hearing about it. Don't waste another minute of your precious time here.
-- wise2you (email@example.com), March 22, 1999.
Anita, you are loved by this friend. Loved so much that she would dare to endanger your relationship if it might mean saving your life. Be careful. Such friends are rare and hard to come by.
-- Betty Alice (Barn266@aol.com), March 22, 1999.
BILLy!!!!!! CaN YoU PLeaSE REmoVE YoUR APParaTUS oF BREatHINg fROM THe baG PLaSTIC????? wiLL ThaT HeLp SAD biLLy iN The aREa oF CoNsciousNESS????? HuH????? PEppEROni!!!!! a fINE seNSE OF huMOR HaVE YoU DISPLayED!!!!!! FUnnY LAUghS FOR YoU FRom DIetER!!!!!! HEe heE!!!! DiD YouR PArenTS HavE ANy chiLdREN WhO LIveD??????
-- Dieter (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 22, 1999.