DGI husband and I just engaged in another conversation in which I was told not to waste my time preparing for Y2K. He thinks if it were going to be that big of a deal, there would be many major television programs regularly devoted to it (as in how Nightline was born with the hostages in Iran). Yesterday he read a story in our local major metro which indicated utilities, etc. will be fine.

I informed him that one politician told me it might be a good idea to buy a generator. His response was that the politician must have been getting money from the generator company.

He is not on the net. He only knows what he reads in the paper, hears on the radio or watches on tv (mostly CNN type programs with a bit of golf thrown in.)

Generators aside (He was referring to any Y2K preparations) assuming you were I, how would you have debated the above?

Arrggh!

-- FM (vidprof@aol.com), March 21, 1999

Answers

You have my full sympathy as it can be the same in our house..especially when "he who must be obeyed" is tired .I've found he only becomes more entrenched if one argues so I try to work around.

Luckily he is quite a keen gardener so I've just bought loads of extra seed for him to plant.We have also had a minor burglary recently so I have become rather fearful and that has caused him to beef up the security. Also,I've taken taken up quite an interest in SAVING money so having been making our very own candles & of course buying up all those special offers at the Supermarket of tinned meat etc.I reckon I can squirrel away just about enough to last us 3 months before he starts tripping over things.Heaven help me though if he gets too enthusiastic one night & discovers the hard way that there are 40 cans of baked beans under the bed!

Peace be with you & yours

Chris.

-- Chris (griffen@globalnet.co.uk), March 21, 1999.

I would copy items posted on the Internet and place them in stragegic places where he would be sure to see and possibly read them, especially things from NEWS sources (y2knewswire, etc.). Talk about it in a factual manner, not argumentative way. When you go to the store, buy extra. Kerosene lamps can be decorative as well as necessary. Everyone's power goes out at some point. Just keep working on him . . . but don't argue as that will not change his mind. Good luck!

-- linda (smitmom@hotmail.com), March 21, 1999.

My husband is a DGI, but quickly becoming a more tolerant one. He knows I'm not stupid or addle-headed and not one to rush in. At least he knows if I'm concerned, there could be something to it. I prepare a little in front of him, and more where he can't see. Easing him into it I guess. One thing for sure, he'll breathe the big sigh of relief if things go bad and he's not hurting. A girl's gotta do what a girl's gotta do.

-- margie mason (mar3mike@aol.com), March 21, 1999.

Thanks for the quick responses. Some of you describe what I'm already doing (that squirreling analogy), but everyone who's responded so far has been (I assume from the names attached to the posts) a woman.

Now--not to stereotype--I'd like to hear from some men on this issue (except Norm--but now that I've mentioned him he'll probably put his two cent's worth in).

In particular, if you're a male former dgi--even better dwgi--and you were trying to convince my husband about the need to prepare for something, what would you tell/show him? I've gone the route of leaving articles in strategic places and he either hasn't read them or doesn't believe what's in them.

One thing I know would make him wake up--the prospect of higher prices next year (gasoline, etc.), because of this thing, but I'm talking about the safety and security of our family, including a young child. That's MY concern.

Thanks for your help. (Boy is this guy hard-headed. Problem is--he's often right!)

:)

-- FM (vidprof@aol.com), March 21, 1999.

This is an easy one. Have your other half go to a computer that is non-compliant. Have him type in a date in 2000. When the thing locks up, or says invalid field, just tell him to make it work!!!!!!!!!! Point made. MORE BOOZE!!!!!!!!!!!!

-- SCOTTY (BLehman202@aol.com), March 21, 1999.

Hi... you wanted a man's response; I hope this helps.

While I don't agree with my wife on everything, I am keenly aware that there are a great number of things that she understands that I never get. Occasionally when I need that reminder and I'm not listening to her, she gently recalls a time for me that I missed the boat and she was right on the money. Not an in-your-face thing, but to show that my point of view can be off. Her point: "You need to listen to me!" Given that hint, I do.

I also think it's important to point out that Y2K is very difficult for the media to grasp. It's technical, dry, and depressing. It's not graphic yet; that doesn't play well on TV. So I think Y2K is the last thing the media would hop aboard.

That said, some media outlets are hopping on the GI train. My local talk-radio station, for example, frequently gives descriptions of itself during the day as "Your Y2K radio station, WHO - Des Moines." So not all media avoid it and think it's nothing.

Your husband should know that most of the people who sounded the alarm on this were not survivalist folk, but guys who wore suits to work, i.e. the geeks. Show him Scott McNeely's suggestion that people buy their computers this year because Sun doesn't know if they will make them next year due to supply chain issues. Tell him that Ed Yardeni, who is famous for his Dow 10,000 by 2000 quote, predicts recession. Yardeni made that prediction in the early 90's when most Wall Streeters were being a bit more conservative with predictions of 6,000 or even 7,000. If Dr. Ed were that prescient and optimistic back then, shouldn't he be taken seriously now?

Finally, get a hold of your county EMS and latch on to the most pessimistic statement you can from the person. Not to be doom and gloom, but take that statement and use that to say, "We need to prepare." Then, as women do best, stretch that dollar spent and buy extra without your husband knowing. My wife can do that and I don't know when she does. All I see is a check to Wal-Mart, but I have no idea what she got usually. And yes, it's true that sometimes when she tells me I still don't hear.

Hope this helps. I can probably come up with more ideas if you need more ammo. Good luck!

-- Brett (savvydad@aol.com), March 21, 1999.

But Scotty, if I have him do that (I do indeed have an older computer we could experiment on), he'll says "So what? It's just one computer! It doesn't have anything to do with our UTILITIES! They're working on that! Do you think those people are stupid?"

I wish it were as simple as you suggest. Thanks, though, for the input. (Future posters: remember, I'm looking for NUCLEAR POWERED evidence here!)

Which reminds me--since I haven't added this--he IS concerned about the prospect of nuclear problems as a result of Y2K, just not whether or not we'll have heat, lights or clean drinking water. . .

-- FM (vidprof@aol.com), March 21, 1999.

Hi Brett!

You and I were posting at the same time, so I replied to Scotty before I saw your post. Thanks! (I've got you in my email address book, since we've written to each other before.) Wish you were my next door neighbor. You and hubby could have some interesting chats.

I'm for sure saving this thread. Hoping for more responses. Grateful again for the ones I've seen so far.

-- FM (vidprof@aol.com), March 21, 1999.

You might want to lead off with Ed Yardeni's ZDNET commentary from last November: "Alarmists vs. Dommsayers" . It's a fairly quick read and helps to explain how Wall Street's biggest bull became "King of the Bears".

Accompany that with Yardeni's "Y2K Reporter" on Yardeni.com - a very good vehicle for communicating with the "Show Me the Money" crowd.

Scroll down to the Y2K Reporter section and click on the latest report: "Y2K and Forrest Gump" (3/8).

Hope these help...

-- Mac (sneak@lurk.com), March 21, 1999.

FM

Some of those articles you leave laying around - try to get them from papers who might influence him more because they are mainstream. There was just a couple good ones on this forum that were from the London Times (the one where Kissinger said he was pulling his money out) and Chicago Tribune or anything you find from AP or Rueters.

Have him read some of the Senate Report - and compare with the "spin" that was offered. Maybe that will give him an idea that our media is being "out-mediaed".

Good luck - and keep it up - and remind him he didn't marry a dummy!

-- Valkyrie (anon@please.net), March 21, 1999.

FM,

Thanks for the e-mail. Shower him with facts. Just the facts. As we know, Lord there are so so many Dayton Daily News: $13 Million Y2K Bunker

Califoria Governor's Office of Emergency Services guide: Y2K and You: What2Do, posted at artbell.com

National Guard Communications Drill in May

Gary North on the Art Bell Show(in his archives / Real Audio, Feb 19/ Feb 20) he's been on 4 times!

Ed Yourdon's video or Leonard Nimoy's Y2K Survival Guide (very factual and serious)

And on and on and on..........

-- PJC (paulchri@msn.com), March 21, 1999.

Thanks for all the responses! The references to specific publications are MOST appreciated! Any more out there of the NUCLEAR variety, that hasn't been posted so far?

(And Mr. Yourdon--if you're lurking out there--which I KNOW you are, would you consider putting in your two cents worth on the most convincing thing in print?)

Cheers! (You're helping.)

-- FM (vidprof@aol.com), March 21, 1999.

FM,

I'm not a guy but I did post a link to an article from today's Chicago Tribune, I wish you could get it in the print edition it was attention grabbing! This is a serious article.

Link to article:

Trib

(it is about the global impact, butit isn't too difficult to see how this can affect the U.S.)

-- Deborah (infowars@yahoo.com), March 21, 1999.

FM ..
 
Hope this helps:
 
 
"Y2K" expert Professor Klaus Brunnstein says "Y2K compliance and security in German nuclear power plants is more than doubtful!"
 
[snip!]
 
The Department for Electricity of the German "TUV" (an independent security testing institution) in Munich explained yesterday to the editors of the German website "www.Zeitbombe-Jahr2000.de" that most nuclear power plants in the country are more than behind schedule.
 
[snip!]  
...
 
According to Prof. Klaus Brunnstein, a recognized and respected computer specialist and Y2K expert in Germany, the starting date of July 1998 is "much too late in any case", because systems of such complexity need at least 24 to 36 months for the testing and repairing-phases. Even whether there are enough qualified specialists to do the job is questionable, explains Brunnstein.
 
 
Link:
 
 
=============================
 
THE 'NIGHTMARE SCENARIO'
 
WHAT IF THE WORLD'S Y2K NUCLEAR COMPUTER PROBLEMS AREN'T FIXED IN TIME?
 
 ,BR> Y2K is coming, ready or not. Right now, mostly not. And despite desperate efforts to correct the monumentally shortsighted failure to program the world's computers and computer chips with complete date codes, some disruption is now inevitable when the clocks tick over at midnight at the end of the year.
 
Most worrisome, because of their vast potential for destruction, are the world's nuclear weapons arsenals and nuclear power plants. For if the network of interconnected systems collapses and cascades into systemic infrastructure failures, power and communications could be lost worldwide. Restoration may be delayed or even impossible in a world where everything else has snapped to a halt. In the chaos and confusion that would follow no one knows what would happen to nuclear bombs and nuclear reactors. In the truly worst-case scenario, accidental nuclear war and/or reactor meltdowns could release enough deadly radioactivity to return the planet to the insects.
 
Link: HREF="h ttp://www.thenation.com/issue/990315/0315sanders.shtml
 
=============================
 
Big Glitch at Nuclear Plant Shows Perils of Y2K Tests
 
Link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1999-03/07/07 5l-030799-idx.html
 
=============================
 
From ABC News
Y2K bug could cause problems at U.S. nuclear power plants
 
Link: http:// abcnews.go.com/wire/US/Reuters19990308_2057.html
 
 
... for openers...
 
Dan


-- Dan (DanTCC@Yahoo.com), March 21, 1999.

ya know, if it really gets as bad as we think it may, we are all dead. think about it, really. no power, no water. all the water you can store wont be enough. you got a years worth of storable food? got all your money in a safe? you got a couple fifty gallon containers worth of water? you got your stupid seeds? you got some lanterns, and a few containers of kerosene? thats great! but in a mad max scenario, someone will take it all from you. really. we are all dead if it gets as bad as we think. no amount of preparing will be enough, and if its not the gangs that take it all from you, it will be your friendly government. you cant win this one, folks.

-- ed (edrider007@aol.com), March 21, 1999.

FM,

Consider planting seeds, one at a time, with a question like; what would you miss most if it becomes unavailable?

Best wishes,

-- Watchful (seethesea@msn.com), March 21, 1999.

FM ..
 
Typo fixes to links .. sorry :(
 
 
"Y2K" expert Professor Klaus Brunnstein says "Y2K compliance and security in German nuclear power plants is more than doubtful!"
 
Link: http://www.zeitbombe-jahr2000.de/zebo.y2k/inh./ y2k.cont./German_nucl_power_plant.html
 
=============================
 
THE 'NIGHTMARE SCENARIO'
 
WHAT IF THE WORLD'S Y2K NUCLEAR COMPUTER PROBLEMS AREN'T FIXED IN TIME?
 
 
Link: h ttp://www.thenation.com/issue/990315/0315sanders.shtml
 
=============================
 
Big Glitch at Nuclear Plant Shows Perils of Y2K Tests
 
Link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1999-03/07/07 5l-030799-idx.html
 
=============================
 
From ABC News
 
Y2K bug could cause problems at U.S. nuclear power plants
 
Link: http:// abcnews.go.com/wire/US/Reuters19990308_2057.html
 
 
Dan


-- Dan (DanTCC@Yahoo.com), March 21, 1999.

FM:

No one on this forum has "convinced" anyone who has challenged the idea that y2k will be bad. Not one DGI engaged in a debate of reasoning and logic has finally given in and said"Yeah, O.K. You've convinced me and I'm going to start preparing now."

Y2k is just too hard to deal with. It's easier for people to say to themselves that maybe things "won't be so bad." They can relax more. It's hard to move to the position that things are going to be "worse than I thought." It's just too much stress. It's too hard.

Let it go. Don't say another word. Buy Ed's book and read it slowly in bed at night and leave it around the house.

Prepare for yourself and your family as best you can and to the point that you feel comfortable. If he brings it up, just say something like this:"A lot of people with common sense just like you, felt the exact same way as you do now. After they read Ed's book and did some research, they decided that some preparation made a lot more sense than none." If he doesn't react to that, then all the reasoning in the world won't help. You can't reason with unreasonable people.

The responsibility for your family may just have to rest on your shoulders. I know it isn't fair. What would you do if he was physically challenged and couldn't help you? If you loved him, you'd still prepare the best you could and you'd cope with it.

Sorry if this sounded "preachy."

-- PNG (png@gol.com), March 22, 1999.

Hello, FM. I've found it nearly impossible to convince people about y2k, the more so if they are not computer literate and/or don't have internet access. In an attempt to get the attention of my (rural) neighbors (male) and reduce the possiblity of their pounding on my door asking for food and assistance, I've told them right up front that I will have enough stuff for my own family, but not for anyone else, so don't come asking. Kinda blunt, and it generates a bit of hostility for awhile, but it does give them pause for reflection...and at least they can't say they weren't warned. Logic didn't work, nor did making y2k information available...but this approach seems to hit them rather soundly in their survival sense. Some of them are starting to come around. (Ironically, my own wife is in deep denial. Haven't figured out how to handle that one, yet.) Anybody got any better ideas? Norm H.

-- Norm Harrold (nharrold@tymewyse.com), March 22, 1999.

Just take it easy with your hubby. I have found with DWGIs and DGIs, the more you try and tell them, the less they listen. I lost my wife because I pushed too hard. I wish you both well.

-- David Harvey (vk2dmh@hotmail.com), March 22, 1999.

FM,

Let your husband know that Y2K appears to be serious and that he should follow news about it closely. Sooner or later, he'll ask himself why he keeps hearing more and more about Y2K when it's supposedly well on its way to being fixed.

In the meantime, some words of wisdom from Westergaard 2000's Jim Lord...

http://y2ktimebomb.com/Tip/Lord/lord9842.htm

How to Deal With Y2K Non-Believers

By Jim Lord

October 19, 1998

You've read everything you could find about the Year 2000 Computer Crisis. Your day starts with Gary North. Hamasaki, deJager and Westergaard are your constant companions. You have a notebook full of Y2K articles. You're a true believer and, like most converts, you're possessed with a passionate desire to carry this new "message" to others.

That's when the frustration sets in because you can't get them to listen when you warn them about the impending disaster. This includes your neighbors, your coworkers and your closest friends. Your family won't even pay attention _ not even your mom. Worst of all, your spouse thinks you've fallen right off the end of the table. How should you deal with all this rejection?

Try treating them like green tomatoes.

Imagine picking tomatoes from your garden. You walk down the row looking only for the ripe fruit. They're easy to spot because they're big and red, plump with juice. They almost fall off the vine with just a slight twist. They're ready to be picked.

The green tomatoes, however, are still small and hard. They come off the vine with great difficulty. You have to twist and twist and literally tear them right off the plant. They're just not ready yet.

How do you feel about these green tomatoes? Are you angry with them? Do they frustrate you because they refuse to cooperate with your desires? Do they upset you because they won't get ripe according to your schedule? Probably not because you know they just need a few more days out in the sun. Instead, you move on down the row, thankful for the ripe tomatoes and confident those little green fellows will be ready soon enough.

Treat your friends and loved ones the same way when it comes to Y2K. Be grateful for those that "get it." Harvest them and send them out to search for more converts. And just be patient with those who are still growing. They'll be ready soon enough.

It won't be long before you'll be regarded not as a nut but as a visionary.

Good Luck !

Jim Lord

-- Linkmeister (link@librarian.edu), March 22, 1999.

I can't think you all enough for all of your extremely thoughtful answers. By the way, PNG, which of Ed's books do you recommend (assuming I need to save cash for preps and can't buy both)?

On a general note--I believe the more current the information is--the better, unless older speeches/articles/testimony reason out that no matter what it done, it can't all be fixed in time.

Anyone who hasn't responded to this yet--male or female--please do so. I'm a firm believer in the old axiom "Knowledge is power."

Thanks again!

Cheers!

-- FM (vidprof@aol.com), March 22, 1999.

As an old wife, I have the following advice. It may or may not work depending on how your husband is "wired". Be very polite and appreciative, but say little or nothing to him of substance. Continue on with your preparations, and "withdraw" from him your present personality. Respond pleasantly when he talks to you, but keep it short and to whatever point he's making.

This, carried out over a few weeks, will change the dynamics of your relationship. You will feel less dependant on his "getting it" and more self-sufficient, and he will become more uncertain about what's going on.

If you are asked about the change, quietly explain that the two of you seem not to be "on the same wavelength", and you respect his right to his position, and you aren't going to bother him about it any more. Then find something interesting to do for preparation, and get busy.

Soemtimes men resent being pushed and pulled, and when we let go of our end of the rope, leave them alone to think things over, and get busy with our work, leaving them behind, they decide to catch up all by themselves real quick. I'm sure, if you have raised balky toddlers refusing to walk along with you, you understand the principle.

-- housemouse (jgj@nevermind.net), March 22, 1999.

"You're a true believer and, like most converts, you're possessed with a passionate desire to carry this new "message" to others."

"Treat your friends and loved ones the same way when it comes to Y2K. Be grateful for those that "get it." Harvest them and send them out to search for more converts."

AND YOU ALL SAY THIS IS ****NOT***** A Y2K CULT! YEAH RIGHT!!!!!

-- Moron Thumper (something.smells@round.here.com), March 22, 1999.

So what's it called when your group sends e-mail to the likes of Paul Davis and Flint, Moron Slayer? We don't call ourselves 'the Right' here and we don't keep files for the government on those that disagree with us.

-- (watch@observe.com), March 22, 1999.

Gee, Moron Thumper, based upon your definition of a Y2K cult, the American Red Cross must also be a member. You know--that ALARMIST organization that is advising Americans to personally prepare for this by storing water, etc.?

God bless you anyway. Here's hoping you can transform your apparent bitterness into something helpful to society.

-- FM (vidprof@aol.com), March 22, 1999.

don't bother debating. i assume that, like most wives, you are responsible for grocery shopping. so quietly shop for things you will need. start with 1 month's worth of supplies, at least. you don't need a generator. but you can get candles, matches, canned and dried foods, some trash barrels to hold water, sleeping bags, etc. then when hubby wakes up and smells the coffee, he will be happy you got this stuff, even if he grumbles now.

-- jocelyne slough (jonslough@tln.net), March 22, 1999.