What would our level of Y2K understanding be without the net?

I ask this question for a simple reason. There are so many people that are not online, and this is a main source for Y2K information. So when I talk with folks about the subject and recommend a site or two, some respond with "I am not on the net and don't have access". This made me think about the quality, quantity, and timeliness of Y2K information available to people who are not online - millions of people. I usually end up printing out articles and posts and giving them to these folks.

So where are they getting their Y2K information? They have the mainstream media - think sound bites. There is C-SPAN/CSPAN II to see Y2K Hearings for those that have cable. In addition, they can talk with folks that are Y2K knowledgeable, perhaps with people who are working on Y2K projects or are Y2K active in the community. They can also read some of the ever-expanding list of Y2K books. Much of this information, especially in the mainstream media sound bites, I have found to be oversimplified, only part of the story, contradictory, and just plain inaccurate. The Vanity Fair article was an exception. I gave it to my sister-in-law and know that she read it, but she still is a 'Forget It', and she does not get online. Perhaps I will have better luck with the current issue of Wired Magazine. Who knows, right?

Now back to quality, quantity, and timeliness: There is good information out there besides the net, but it is probably not as timely as being able to grab the news as it happens - We had the Senate report (for example) the instant it became available. The quantity of offline information is also not as great. The quality of the information both on the net and outside the net requires people to do some independent thinking and analysis to separate things out.

As a result, my conclusion is that people can certainly get it without the net, provided they take the time to seriously look around and can read between the lines. To me, that leaves one heck of a lot of people out though. This same effort is also required online, though the information is more readily obtainable. I also think that the net gives an advantage due to quantity and timeliness of information. Quality I am not so sure about - it remains in the eye of the beholder regardless of where the information originates. Perhaps some of you will want to discuss this point further. I feel that it possibly would have taken me longer, perhaps much longer, to understand the various implications of Y2K without the net, after I got it at the 'gut level'.

So while the net may not be absolutely necessary to someone's ability to get it, being online has no substitute. Especially in that the quantity and more importantly the timeliness of information online can provide a more comprehensive and deeper understanding of the related issues, and force us to ask questions, some of which have no answer, but are good to try and think through anyway.

What do you think - Agree? Disagree?

p.s. Those of you who have followed my posts over the months know that I try to respond to most answers on a thread like this. I have been busier than usual lately so may not be able to do it for this thread. Still, your thoughts on this subject are most welcome.

-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), March 19, 1999

Answers

Jim Lord has noted that the use of the computer based Internet to combat the computer based Y2K problem is somewhat analogous to setting the underbrush afire to combat a forest fire.

-- Jack (jsprat@eld.net), March 19, 1999.

My answer approaches your question from two directions, Rob. First, my Dad (who was raised during the Depression and GI immediately) and I have talked about the level (read lack of) of consciousness without the Internet. His first exposure, and mine, came via GN, and moved us from there to the myriad sites about Y2K. Second, as I believe things will be very difficult for some time, the Net has been an invaluable source for preparation. This forum has produced questions, answers and responses that have directed me to the resources I feel we need to prepare. So, in our case, the Net has served as the single most important thing in the entire Y2K arena. Thanks for the post.

-- Vic (Roadrunner@compliant.com), March 19, 1999.

I'll repost this from an earlier thread:

What makes this forum wonderful is the resources we have here. We can answer just about any question. However, the vast majority of the people aren't even on the internet, let alone hanging out in a Y2K forum. Who do they have to answer their questions? Who do they have to help them read between the happy-face lines, and find the real story? Most people watch the 6:00 news, and take it as gospel. And we all know what, if anything, the news is saying. <:)=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), March 19, 1999.

Being online is no substitute for 2 reasons:

First, this is where most of the information is, in particular the underlying data and reports.

Second, there is no substitute for doing the research yourself as a counterweight to the natural skepticism of being handed selective information from a third party on a matter of depressing proportions. I have learned/been exposed to so much more on the 'net than I can pass along.

The internet may also be a factor for many in staying a GI. Unlike other unpredictable areas of my life where "insurance" is available by merely writing a check, Y2K can mean a commitment of extensive time and effort (and ridicule and second-guessing) in addition to the money. The internet has been central in the continuing evolution of my views about what 2000+ may be like and what preparations are appropriate for my family.

-- Brooks (brooksbie@hotmail.com), March 19, 1999.

I live in a small community which circulates 2 weekly papers. I have yet to see the word Y2k in either of those papers. I receive a paper from the town 35 miles away, a daily. Those reports about Y2k are smiley face and everything is going to be ok.

The local news has few segments according to those that watch local. I get Primestar and do not receive local news.

The people that know about Y2k here are learning in their churches, word of mouth and the small tidbits of media bytes that air once in awhile. I copy threads from here, newspaper articles, and Gary North and pass around. I encourage each to obtain one of the many books awailable.

What I am finding out is there is a hunger and thrist for information. At times I am overwhelmed by the number of people requesting printed materail from me. I now simply print it, pass it out, request that it be returned to me, and pass it out to someone else. Many make copies to share with others.

To answer the question about the level of awareness without the net. I would have little, if any, information. I would have to rely on someone to pass the information on to me, just as I am doing for others.

I doubt I would be preparing.

Those of you that live in larger cities have access to more information then smaller communtities. There are still a lot of people that have never heard of Y2k.

-- Linda A. (adahi@muhlon.com), March 19, 1999.

Agree totally , Rob.

In addition, those that do speak regularily on national radio shows, (thinking of Mike Hyatt on Dobsons program and Point Of View) are almost forced to tone down the message slightly because they just CAN"t cover everything, and they don't want to come off as a complete nut to all the DGI's - which is how a normal person would probably react to too much info.

Ther is nothing out there that can even begin to cover Y2K like the internet. Even the magazines you mentioned reach a very limited population. Those who "get it" without the internet must be a lot smarter than me.

-- Jon Johnson (narnia4@usa.net), March 19, 1999.

Jon,

Or. . .they could have had parents who survived the great depression, or. . .they could understand global interdependencies.

Just a thought.

-- FM (vidprof@aol.com), March 19, 1999.

Before I got "the net" I got all of my info from Countryside Magazine. They started a 10 part series last July about Y2K and have info off the net so everyone can have read it.They have some really good articles to help with Y2K like solar ovens and water and food. www.countrysidemag

-- sam (mastecross@excite.com), March 19, 1999.

Without the net, finding information would be a lot slower and a lot harder. Been there, done that. Remember libraries and card catalogues?

Thankfully, the growth of the internet is a "timely" Y2K researcher's coincidence, is it not?

Word-of-mouth is an even more powerful force than the net. For all those NOT online, they usually have a friend, a co-worker or a relative who is. I'd be willing to bet, way more people are "Y2K aware" and quietly getting ready than "they" have any conception of.

So, who gets it easily and who does not? Well, I suspect people who embrace change, see bigger pictures, those who travel extensively, ones who appreciate the majesty of a whole sky at night rather than a single star, those who learn their lifes lessons rather than avoid them.

The Net has enabled and empowered more people, directly and by default, to become more conscious of their interconnected world, should they so choose, than ever before, in the history of humankind. Its a revolution that may well surpass the changes that took place in civilization after introduction of the printing press.

Peter Drucker, in some older management textbooks, used to refer to this kind of ground swell as a sea change in consciousness.

Thanks to the Net, now ... Shift Happens ... second-by-second. And thats a ripple effect, felt round the world.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), March 19, 1999.

I first heard about Y2K from Countryside(Thanks JD). Not being hooked up to the net, I trotted off to the library, signed up for a 1/2 hour slot on their computer that is on the web, and punched in Y2K. Yikes!! I started spending much time trying to get on the net there, and getting bounced off by 10 year olds with homework asignments.... I then heard about Ed's book- tried to get the library to buy it but they said it was dated mateial and therefore not a good buy....But a library in another town did buy it. Read it. Said yikes again.

Decided to get us on line. No easy feat as our computers, while great for WP, are not recent issues.....Finally found a small local company that found an old search engine we could use, installed it and there we are.....until 2000 when they tell us that in any event our pc's cannot be made y2k compliant..

but- I would have to say that the net has been the best source of info for us. We don't get tv, our paper is delivered by the Post Office, and the local coverage is not good. However, there is net access at most libraries and schools now even if you don't own a computer. And 486's are plentiful and cheap and as we know, can be made to access the net- not all of it, and s.l.o.w.l.y........but will get you on.

-- anita (hillsidefarm@drbs.com), March 19, 1999.

I too got the word from Countryside magazine. Have been a subscriber since 1973 and when the publisher/editor came out with an issue on Y2k I BELIEVED HIM BECAUSE I ALREADY TRUSTED HIM. I was on the internet but didn't coss into anthing y2k. There are millions of people on the internet that know nothing about y2k. They are in chat rooms, playing bingo, what have you and never come across y2k. You have to look for it. After hearing what Balenger of Countryside magazine had to say, you can believe I began searching the net. And flame me if you wish, but if you are heading for the country and planning on raising your own crops, etc you had better subscribe to Countryside. Thats what the magazine is about. Its mostly written by the readers who are already out in the trenches and doing. And at the risk of sounding like an ass, I will tell you that most of you haven't a clue how to support yourself on the land. It takes a long time to learn and believe me the learning process is done all by the mistakes you make. There is no forgiveness. If you don't get a goat bred, you don't get milk. If the bugs/disease get the veggies, you do without. I know how to be self sufficient and it took 20 years of hard back breaking work to learn it.

Been there, done that and can do it again.!!

-- Taz (tassie@aol.com), March 19, 1999.

You nailed it Rob. And the person who mentioned the "thirst for information" that people who are NOT online have about this subject.

Makes ya wonder -- without the near-uncontrollable internet, would we ALL be buying the gov't party line? Do you think maybe the gov't didn't reckon on just HOW MUCH information to HOW MANY people the internet could accomplish?

I mention it in all kinds of situations, in stores, etc., just to see the response. What's really interesting is the quantity of people -- I would say 19 out of 20 -- that have heard the term and otherwise know NOTHING. Their eyes glaze over, they look blank -- and I've realized in a couple cases, they are totally confused why I, who seem rational, would be mentioning like it's a concern something that they can't imagine being one.

My favorite response: "My {brother, friend, cousin, sister in law} is a computer {expert, programmer, person} and they say it's all a joke and no big deal." This said with the source of having inside information. Sigh!

Many I've talked to personally say, "But I don't get it. How could this date thing possibly affect me having food?" And I start to tell them, only to realize there are SO MANY things I need to explain to do a proper job that unless they're willing to sit down with me for at LEAST 15 minutes, there is no point in even starting, and I'm better off saying, "Yes, but it's really a complex subject. I'm sure you're responsible and would want your family and kids to be prepared for in case of a problem. So I strongly recommend you do some research on this subject. Better safe than sorry." And if possible I refer them to a magazine or URL.

But in general, I can track the difference. Give me 20 people who have internet access and use it now and then, and 20 who don't. Chances are at least some of the net users will have some clue, and those that aren't, total DGI's.

PJ

-- PJ Gaenir (fire@firedocs.com), March 19, 1999.

The internet is where I first heard of Y2K. It's where I spend at least an hour a day keeping up and researching. It's where I've posted my own web page for my friends and family (and as it turns out strangers) to get information from. If I had waited for the usual media sources to give me enough I'd be way behind. Despite living in Michael Hyatt's backyard most of this city is clueless. Not only can we not wait for books to be published and the media to get a clue--a lot of this information is expensive. I could not be nearly as effective in warning people if the internet hadn't been available to me. I understand that most of my associates are not on the 'net. A good portion of them don't even subscribe to the newspaper anymore. Too many of them haven't bought a real book in ages.

The internet is the one place where America can get information unfiltered, uncensored, unedited by someone who is afraid of losing money because they may be perceived as a nut; the paper/station not having enough space because the advertisements are the backbone of the media not the news or actual public good; because it doesn't fit the editor/publisher's dogma.

It's also become a place of accountability. When ABC Company, Ltd. says their critical systems are compliant I can count on someone on the 'net (some of you all--thank you) to define "critical systems" so that I can make my own informed judgement and not to have to live with the santitized version intended to placate the stockholders.

It's God's grace to us that the 'net is available. It's His wonderful sense of humor revealed that the same machines that may cause our downfall can also be a form of life preserver.

-- Kay (jkbrooks@bellsouth.net), March 19, 1999.

In one word without the net and Gary North, I'd be : DGI !Or is that 3 words? Since buying a business in 1994, I've been like an ostrich. All my reading has been centered on business related material having to do with pawnshops, guns, antiques and collectibles. Then last fall my son pointed me to G.N. and that scared me so badly that I had to start researching it just to refute him. Thank you, Gary North.

-- sue (deco100@aol.com), March 19, 1999.

agree Taz- Countryside is the best!! Consider this a public service annoucment. For those who don't know how to find it: 1-800-551-5691, 8-4 Central Time, or www.countrysidemag.com, or: W11564 Hwy 64, Withee, WI 54498

subscriptions cost $18 per year- best $18 you'll ever spend. back issues are $3- check what's available. Get the whole Y2K series too.

I have issues going back to 1989- wish I had older ones. For anyone serious about being "back to the land" in any manner.

I have no "business" with them but a subscription.

-- anita (hillsidefarm@drbs.com), March 19, 1999.

TS (tough s**t) or TT (tough titties). Luck is a factor in any individual case, but those better prepared will have a better chance of surviving. Those not on the internet are S.O.L. (Unless they are already in remote areas and self-sufficient or in communities like Amish.)

The clueless will always be with us. There are too many nowadays. It takes a good catastrophe to weed them down to managable numbers.

Quit trying to convert DGIs and DWGIs. That retard you finally browbeat into illumination tomorrow could be the one who outbids you six months from now for that gallon of kerosene for your lanterns.

Assuming TSHTF, many will die. If you are better prepared, maybe you won't.

If people were smart and thus started awareness and work several years ago, potential problems would be much less than they are now. But, people are not smart. So now it's triage time.

-- a (A@AisA.com), March 19, 1999.

Thanks everyone. I liked the references to how ironic it is and the brushfire example too. Also the tip about COUNTRYSIDE and other non-internet examples that some posted.

-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), March 19, 1999.

I live in an economically-challenged rural part of SW Oregon, 35 miles from the nearest town of any size. I never heard the word "y2k" until I came across it while surfing the net one day last summer. To this day, like most of the local residents, I wouldn't have a clue if it hadn't been for the internet. There is little or no meaningful newspaper or media coverage here of y2k issues. I now spend about an hour/day reviewing y2k news articles and forums. The great thing about this opportunity is that I benefit very much from the almost instant dissection and analysis of news items, technical questions, and related y2k sites. It's that back-and-forth discussion that helps me to evaluate the trends and make my own decisions about what I need to do to make-ready my family, animals, and property. Love that internet!

-- Norm Harrold (nharrold@tymewyse.com), March 19, 1999.

y2k? Oh yeah, that computer thingy. I read in the newspaper that the U.S. government will be finished in about 2 weeks. What's the big deal?

-- PNG (png@gol.com), March 19, 1999.

Another Countryside reader here. I've enjoyed reading Countryside for a few years now and after becoming "aware", started looking for y2k info on the net. I rely on both sources now, but definitely find Countryside my most valuable resource for preparedness.

I have to be a mean pennypincher living in a state that is still in recession going on 9 years, and Countryside is my only magazine subscription. The advice I get reading cover to cover is laid out in a calm, matter-of-fact manner; definitely not downplaying, yet reassuring with all the practical information.

I guess I'll take a risk at being redundant, but I recommend everyone take a look and consider a subscription.

Aloha,

-- susan (mainaga@maui.net), March 20, 1999.