Hey kids, why all the gloom? As a hard-core Libertarian, I see this whole thing as a perfact opportunity to re-format America's hard-drive and haul out the trash. As far as I'm concerned, bring it on !

-- Skip (skip@gotit.com), March 19, 1999

Answers

Skip, I don't like people coming across the borders into the US. I'm a Libertarian too, but not that hard core.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), March 19, 1999.

Hey, three Libertarians in one place!!

The Forces of Good are slowly gathering strength... ;)

-- Leo (lchampion@ozemail.com.au), March 19, 1999.

Yeah, but Skip, for y2k to wreck the present structure enough that a Libertarian format could take its place, the "trash" to which you refer will include thousands of innocent corpses.

I, too, would love to see the current nanny state, gov't monstrosity removed, but if y2k is going to be the remover, the toll in human lives will be horrific.

Talk about yer tough choices.

-- rick blaine (y2kazoo@hotmail.com), March 19, 1999.

"Hey kids, why all the gloom?..."

If things are so bad as to require a "re-format", it will be comparable to the effects of war. Check with Europe (especially France, England, and post WW2 Germany), & Russia for specifics, since the US has not seen a war on US soil for generations.

If TSHTF, it could go either way. The NWO could be finalized, or nationalistic tendencies (my personal favorite) could be strenthened. I agree though, that things would not, problably, stay the same.

-- Anonymous99 (Anonymous99@anonymous.com), March 19, 1999.

make that four Libertarians in one place. But seriously, as I referred to in my other post just below, maybe this sort of thing just has to happen as what we've become is unsustainble. I do wonder what would happen to the political/legal system though- would we throw it all out and start from scratch? Or would we just begin again to rebuild the entire thing, one law/program at a time until we're back where we are now? Pendulum effect? I know there's info out there on this- something about the swing from almost martial law to anarchy and back again? Anyone know more re: this thought system??

Anyway- I actually find these types of thoughts/discussions more interesting than the how many pounds of flour do I need type- I think these issues need to be looked at. It's a question of whether we're willing to do so- it requires a hard look at ourselves and at what we've become- Not for the weak-stomached.

-- anita (hillsidefarm@drbs.com), March 19, 1999.

I also would like to see political-economic reform, to the point of burning down the house and building it again. But I am not willing to condemn thousands or millions of men, women and children to death to accomplish it. To me, if I am not humane there is no point in my being human. Anybody can be savage enough for 'survival of the fittest.' That's a step down, not up. I have to look at this more like, I hope for the very best, for our country, our people, our world. But if really bad things have to happen and people die, I hope we learn from it to the fullest extent possible.

I noticed some years ago that freedom and oppression seem to come in cycles. Through time and through geography, it's a cyclical thing of oppression - rebellion - struggle to get it together independently - independence - struggle to survive independence (yes I'm serious, we do stupid things when we think we're free) - more rebellion of a different kind and usually by those who came to power while things were free - oppression is back again. I mean really, study history, you see this, it's kind of amazing -- it just happens over a long enough period of time that most people don't notice. Well, not only are we getting close to due for the cycle of oppression again here in N. America, but I've noticed that freedom/oppression also tend to trade sides geographically. When the wall in Germany fell and the Eastern bloc countries began declaring independence -- a few murdered leaders/oppressors later -- I cried with happiness. And then later I began to wonder if it was doom for us. If, like the cycle, the freeing up of that area might in some strange way encourage changes toward the opposite in ours. Well, Y2K is actually an opportunity for that -- no gov't will be able to keep very good control in most of the world which is so unprepared for this -- except the American government who in response will probably take total control to keep from losing it entirely.

PJ in TX

-- PJ Gaenir (fire@firedocs.com), March 19, 1999.

5

Sean in Indy

-- (SONOSONO@AOL.com), March 19, 1999.

Rick- I agree. In a way, in order for significant change to occur, a lot has to happen. Does this have to mean millions of lives lost?? I don't know the answer to that. I've debated this some with others. I know that there are others who really want to see a change in the system and in how our lives are being led. I have wondered if Y2K is the mechanism for this change or not. if it is, will it be a horific experience? Would we even see the change we want in the direction we want it to take? I don't know the answers to this.

A friend and I have discussed this some, and my basic feeling on it is that if you want to see change; in politics, lifestyle, values or whatever, do it yourself. That doesn't mean blow up buildings. But rather think hard about the choices you make every day. What do you do for work? Where and on what do you spend your money? How do you live? How much do you do for others? Do you vote? Are you active on the local level? etc. And start making the change you want starting with yourself. Don't wait for it to happen for or to you.

-- anita (hillsidefarm@drbs.com), March 19, 1999.

Folks, I recommend that anyone who believes that a sudden radical change is in order, consider that the vast majority of such sudden changes, not only result (as noted) in the loss of many live; but also end up curtailing people's freedoms, rather than increasing them.

be careful what you wish for...

Arlin

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), March 19, 1999.

--6--maybe this should be a new thread. Wonder how many GI's would turn out to be Libertarians if they took the questionaire on that web site?

-- Sue (deco100@aol.com), March 19, 1999.

Well, Harry Brown is a dgi and doesn't have a clue.

-- dave (wootendave@hotmail.com), March 19, 1999.

another libertarian (notice lower case).

-- curtis schalek (schale1@ibm.net), March 19, 1999.

WHy DOeS HArrY brOWNe keEP ASkiNG DIEtER FOr moNeY?????? IDiOT!!!! DIetER HATeS THaT!!!!!! JACkaSS!!!!! IS NoT DIetER POoR????? INFesTED WIth tAXes????? HuH???? DId noT DIEter VOtE WItH hiS FEeT???? FOr libERTy!!!!! HEllo????

-- Dieter (questions@toask.com), March 19, 1999.

Is Dieter a libertarian??

-- anita (hillsidefarm@drbs.com), March 19, 1999.

DIeTeR DOeS NOt KNoW WhaT HE iS YeT !!

-- Dieter (Questions @toask.com), March 19, 1999.

SHuT UP FAkE DIEtER JAckaSS!!!! DIetER KNowS THiS MucH, yOu ArE A LoSER MOrOn BUTTPLuG!!!!! WHy dO YOu ASPIre TO dieTERdoM???? CAnnOT A SEVerE WOrtHlESS HYeNA as YoURsELf fiND a pOD Of yoUR OWN???? kiSS mE HeRE jacKASS!!!!! No, LOweR, LoweR, lowEr, yeS THAt's iT!!!!

-- Dieter (questions@toask.com), March 19, 1999.

I'm not even sure what a Libertarian is. But you sure sound like an agressive, belligerent, bloodthirsty lot.

Look, I'm as much a fan of Liberty as anyone else here. But, with freedom comes responsibility. You are not free to metaphorically piss in the river upstream from where my children drink. I reserve the right to organise my friends (into a government if necessary) to prevent you from endangering my family and my natural support systems. Your freedom to swing your fist ends at the tip of my nose.

Hallyx

"I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country."---Thomas Jefferson

-- Hallyx (Hallyx@aol.com), March 20, 1999.

GIve Me liBErTy oR GiVe Me...

-- Dieter (questions@toask.com), March 20, 1999.

Hallyx: we're an "agressive beligerent bloodthirsty lot"?? Me?? Libertarians?? I don't think so- check out what Libertarians are first- it might change your mind. And, it's no different than Democrats or Republicans- you won't like, hate, agree with them all, and that holds true for Libertarians.

Actually, Libertarian doesn't mean "no laws". it doesn't mean anything goes. It does mean that you are free to live your life as you chose unless it impacts in a negative way on others. So... pissing in your water supply wouldn't be o.k. under that standard. Pissing in the woods could be.

-- anita (hillsidefarm@drbs.com), March 20, 1999.