When I start to think about how much the children need during the course of a year it is kinda sad. I guess now would be a good time to buy extra clothes a few sizes larger for growing kids. It won't be a waste because sooner or later they will grow into them. Games that don't require batteries would be good too. My daughter (Brytani) has a birthday the day after Christmas and we always celebrate with the family on that day then have her party a few weeks later so that all her little friends have a chance to get over Christmas and are able to attend her party. But next year the poor thing may not even have a party. There may not be anyway to purchase any presents for her. And as bad as it could be my baby will still know it is her birthday. I am going tomorrow to purchase her a few extra toys so that she will have her special day no matter what. Everyday when I take her to school, I look at all the children and pray that this will never come to be. Who can possibly turn away a hungry child or shoot their parents just because they need to feed their family. I can't possibly prepare for everyone but NO ONE will listen to the warnings. Sorry to ramble on but I just can't stop thinking about the effects this will/could have on our children. And it makes me so sad. How could this happen!!!!!!

-- shellie (shellie01@hotmail.com), March 19, 1999

Answers

Maybe my heart will be softened when I look into the eyes of the little ones and fear for their destiny. Then I shall look into the parents eyes and ask why didn't you plan and prepare for them. Multiply this by 50 extra people every day and it can't possibly be done by me. What do you expect of people Shellie? Can you take care of more people than what you have planned for? What about looking into your little one's eyes and tell the child I shall give your bread to someone else who is less fortunate? Shooting someone is the last resort on my list and I am sure on other's people's lists here. Where do you draw the line? These are issues that you have to come to grip with, there will always be winners and losers and it is a sad thing. The effects on our children, if they survive, will make them spiritually stronger and more grateful people, something that is lacking in children today.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), March 19, 1999.

If you don't take the bread off of your plate today and give it to the hungry and poor, Y2K shouldn't be any different. Starving people are starving people, regardless of why. and believe it or not, our grand society lets children starve and go hungry, without shoes, clothes with no tears, and no place to sleep that is warm every day. It doesn't take Y2K to cause this pain in our society...it is already here. You just don't realize it because you haven't been confronted with joining the ranks of hungry, no heat, and no water before, have you? If Y2K didn't come at all, would you just turn your back on those that do suffer already, because it doesn't apply to your lifestyle now?
peace, Karen

-- karen (karen@karen.com), March 19, 1999.

Dear Shellie,

I was feeling a little sorry for my children until I stumbled on a video the other day of "Little House On The Prarie." Yes, I know it's just a television show but it made me remember that children need love to be happy, not things. As for birthdays, I made a few dozen cakes in jars for birthdays and holidays. My kids would be THRILLED if daddy didn't have to go to work and grandma & grandpa got to come stay!

As for the kids of DGI's, I can't even allow myself to think about it. It's far too sad.

Kimbo WA

-- Kimbo WA (aliveandwell@WA.com), March 19, 1999.

Hi Shellie,

I put up a link (on another thread) to a site that has over 250 games with rules,check it out.it's on (what might be prepared for children and the elderly 99-3-13

Darlene

-- Darlene (boomer@tdstelme.net), March 19, 1999.

Darlene,

Would you please post the thread? No direct link necessary, just the URL.

Thanks!

-- FM (vidprof@aol.com), March 19, 1999.

http://corpcomm.net/~gnieboer/gamehome.htm

Hope this helps out.

Darlene

-- Darlene (boomer@tdstelme.net), March 19, 1999.

Karen: That's a very good point that you made. However, enough is never enough. Children grow up to be adults and the cycle starts all over again, the cycle of ignorance and poverty. The children never make it out of poverty which leads to my question, what is the responsibility of the parent? If you cannot feed and provide for them all the comforts, why bring them into this world to be a burden and hardship for others? Throughout the history of man it has always been this way and there's no stopping it now. I resent the fact that people play with the lives of other's and expect me to pick up the pieces and put them back together again. For those of you who are Mother Theresa's more power to you, but she never did stop the poverty and population explosions did she?

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), March 19, 1999.

Heres a hotlink for your ref above: Games for Children Link

Shellie, I know what you mean. I used to be pretty capitalistic -- I mean to say, far more self-oriented -- until I had a child. And suddenly the life of every child became important to me, and many people (adults) I would have hated before, suddenly I could see the root of many of their problems, and I felt sorry for them... I imagined people as children and thought, what happened to that sweet 4 year old who so wanted to grow up to be like daddy? Well, in some unfortunate cases, he grew up to be like daddy....

Anyway, the one thought that always gets me totally going on the Y2K issue is the subject of babies. The marketing efforts to get women off nursing and onto formula are huge. You know how expensive formula is, and how critical for infants. Now imagine living in say, downtown Dallas with 3 million people, and the supply line goes out. Moms can't feed the infants because they've got nothing to do it with. You might get MRE's and water (if you're lucky -- personally I doubt the Feds'll be that available to help 285 million people simultaneously) -- infants likely can't eat that and their development may suffer even if they can. I imagine the panic and rage I would feel at not being able to feed my baby, and feel total empathy for the potential situation. It's the one thought that always ensures Y2K is "humanized" for me.

I know everybody thinks, "Buy for your family and refuse or shoot everyone else." But I dunno... most of my friends are what I jokingly call "grungy old vets." They spent many years overseas in worst-case scenarios, and since many were green beret or intell, they spent time with the people of that country (which might contain many cultures), not just at a distance. We've talked about this. They say that most (not all of course!) people really are NOT inclined to shoot people asking for help, no matter how much they might think they are now. They think that most people just don't know themselves very well if they think they will do this. They say that when humans are in a life or death situation, a survival situation, it's some kind of species trait that people actually band together. They think that this idea most people have about every family holed up in their own little house with a rifle for protection is a pre-mythology, part of that American-culture myth that we're all islands that helps city people not know even their neighbors sometimes, and that when the time comes, if it's pretty bad, people *will* work to help each other. Not because they are generous and altruistic really, although these situations do bring out a lot of that. But because mankind is not a species equipped for solitary survival. Man has always survived in communities and it's part of our genetics -- when TSHTF, most will be biologically drawn to "community." Even if they are not now.

And I second this, because I left California in 1995 and I can tell you, I became a real expert on the social results of disasters while growing up there. I swear, it seems like it was fires, floods, riots, more fires, earthquakes, more floods -- if it wasn't one thing, it was another, and if you visit L.A. for example you'll notice the news is heavily focused on the trauma angle. And in crisis, people change. You find people going to the local 7-11 just so they can find other people to talk to. Big discussions ensue between people who don't know each other, some of whom would never talk to each other otherwise. UPS drivers are heroes -- they travel, they have radios, they know what's going on elsewhere, and people flock to them for news of the next town. It's kinda weird actually, but I saw this happen again and again, with different kinds of 'crisis,' some of which wasn't even all that near to us physically (but TV puts it in your living room of course). And it got to where I could predict it by the "trauma point" of the situation. Well, I think Y2K will be traumatic, and while that doesn't necessarily mean people are going to share all their food, I do think it means most will be far more drawn to 'community' than they suspect. We should hope.

One of my many plans -- in addition that I am planning as best I can to be able to have a soup kitchen (beans/rice/cornbread perhaps) for my neighborhood -- is to create in the next month a web site for my little town that has a "barter board." But this could be done in other ways, by anyone. Basically, it'll be totally free ads where people can define things for sale, for barter-products, for barter-services. I really want to try and get my small town accustomed to the concept of barter, including labor for barter, prior to this event happening. Besides the obvious need for it for everybody --

-- it's really needed for kids. Clothes, shoes, toys, furniture -- kids outgrow them. No matter what happens, kids still have birthdays and need things. Even if we haven't money or supplies to go buy presents, we might be able to barter something in our house for someone else's outgrown little sandals and storybook or whatever. In the end there is no reason why anybody in a small community at least should go without anything that another person has and might be willing to get rid of if it's outgrown or not used much. It's just a matter of communication, of setting it up so people can offer what they have in the hopes they can get something of more use to them out of it. Maybe planning for a way you can do this with your community -- say the people in a couple blocks' radius -- would be useful.

PJ

-- PJ Gaenir (fire@firedocs.com), March 19, 1999.

Is everyone aware that this is about the last week you can still have children within 1999? Get to it if you're going to. You certainly don't want to chance having one after 1-1-2000 do you?

At least until you know how it turns out. Better yet, break out the bundling boards for the next 10 months. :-)

Me

-- Floyd Baker (fbaker@wzrd.com), March 19, 1999.

And make sure you can care and provide for them.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), March 19, 1999.

Frick the children. Are we adults chopped liver? What makes rugrats more valuable than adults? Throw away the crying towel.

-- A (A@AisA.com), March 19, 1999.

Litle Buffy and Lance will have more to worry about than presents. You will find that in a more primitive existence that children are not the coddled, spoiled brats so prevalent, today.

-- A (A@AisA.com), March 19, 1999.

Karen: No, it did not take Y2K for me to know that children are going hungry and need clothes. And I give all that I can possibly give. I donate my time to the local Headstart center. I donate clothes, toys,shoes, blankets,ect.... I am a member of the Elk's lodge and do alot of childrens charity drives there as well. All I am saying is that Y2K seems like such a terrible problem that could have been avoided. On top of all our other problems now we have this!!!! So thank you for your comment but you really should know more about me before attacking me.

To the other posters: Yes, I can take care of my children. I do work a full week doing dialysis on patients with cronic renal failure.

To A: "FRICK THE CHILDREN, WHAT ABOUT THE ADULTS" What a terrible thing to say. I hope you are not a father. Everyday I come here and the topics are mostly about the adults. I just wanted everyone to stop for a minute and think about the impact this will have on our children. Yes, I agree alot of children have become very spoiled and Yes, they will have more to worry about when TSHTF but let me tell you something children are still children. They are innocent and depend on the adults for everything they get. If more parents took some time out of their busy, selfish lives to show some love and support to their children, we just might have children to be proud of . If you are a father hopefully you already know all this and will raise your kids to be respectful adults.

-- shellie (shellie01@hotmail.com), March 19, 1999.

What about the Adults?

For adults who have kids, many get philosophical about it. An adult such as myself who has had a (comparitively) full life worries a lot more about kids "with their who future ahead of them" then about themselves.

Without my own kids, I would not feel this way.

-- Anonymous99 (Anonymous99@Anonymous.com), March 19, 1999.

Please keep thinking about the children and be prepared for their futures earlier than previously necessary.

Thanks for the post. Best wishes,

-- Watchful (seethesea@msn.com), March 19, 1999.

PJ---I think you really understand where I am coming from. You are on the right track and I really appriciate your post. You are not from Texas by any chance are you. Just thought I recognized some of that down home hospitality in your post. ----Take Care.

-- shellie (shellie01@hotmail.com), March 19, 1999.

I HaTE CHiLDREN!!!!! YeS!!!! wHY???? WhAT???? HuH???? yES!!!!

WE MusT CUrTAiL DIetER'S FREedOm!!!!!! why?????? FOR ThE SAke oF SNoTTy noSEd chiLdrEN!!!!!

diETer MuST COnfORM TO THiS STAndARd!!!!!! wHy?????? BECauSE Of thE VOMitING RUg raTS!!!!!!

WE caNNot haVE DIetER VIeWInG SUCh thiNGS!!!!!! WhY???? BECauSE VILe LIttLE ROdeNt BAbieS MIghT BE DISturBED By suCH THingS!!!!!

thE FREedOM OF dieTER'S INteRNET VIEwiNG MusT ENd!!!!!! WhY???? BECauSE JACkassED INFanTS CANnoT BE expOSED To THe opEN DIScouRSE OF ADuLts!!!!!!

WE aRECONducTING AN insaNE WAr oN PoT!!!!! wHy????? BECauSE STinKy DIRtY ASSeD LIttLE JOhnnY MAy tRy thAt!!!!!!

idIOT JAcKASS HYeNA INFiDELs disGUSt DIeTER!!!! BUt waIT!!!! IS DIetER WRoNG???? IF YoU Are a paRENt WHo sAYs suCH SEWagE, IT IS YoU THaT DIETeR HAtES!!!!!!

i HATe YOu!!!!!!

EViL BUzzARDS!!!!!

-- Dieter (questions@toask.com), March 19, 1999.

DIETER: sMOke ANOthEr BoWl oN mE WoULd YOu PLeaSe. YoU ARe sO FUnnY wHEn U pOSt oN oTHeR tHreAds bUt i aM hAvInG a LiTTlE tRouBLe foLLowInG yOu oN tHIs oNE. hOw THe hElL dO YoU TyPE thIS wAY???????YOu maKE mY hEad hUrt...yOu gO nOw!!!!!!!!I neeD a dRinK nOw.

-- shellie (shellie01@hotmail.com), March 19, 1999.

A:\http_!!members_home_com!judyyu!aphex!pictures!gross1.jpg

-- Aint I pretty (me@home.com), March 19, 1999.

I have a good guy friend who is getting married May 1 and they are expecting their child October 1 (SHEESH). That child will be 3 months old on 1/1/2000. My best friend has a 4 year old daughter, a 9 month old son, and is expecting another in September. All of these people are DGI's. I think about them all the time, and what will become of their children should Y2K be a 4-5 or greater (which I personally think it will). Makes me sad just to think about it. I wish there could be a nation-wide curtailment on pregnancy now but I know that would never happen.

I, by the way, have a 4 year old daughter and I have been buying bigger clothes on sale for her. Here's the trick: buy OFF season. For instance, in many places, winter clothes are on the clearance racks now for great prices. Buy bigger sizes. Don't buy bigger summer clothes until August or so. No problem.

I am constantly finding myself thankful I only have one child to protect, feed and love.

And as far as other people are concerned, my husband and I have decided to play it by ear: depending on how severe things are and taking into consideration our food supply (currently at about 8 months and climbing) we might help others with food if they need it, but my child comes first, no matter what. My primary obligation is to her.

-- Preparing (Preparing@home.com), March 19, 1999.

DIEtER IS NoT smoKinG Of thE POT!!!!! INFiDEL!!!! DIEtER is maKinG OF thE POinT OnLy, CAn yoU NOT sEE THaT?????? JAckAL!!!! HuH???? WHy??? BECauSE OF JACkASs bunGhoLES WHo wouLd bE TAKinG OF DIEteR'S HOusE!!!!!! WHy SUch An insANe poLicy????? FOR The woRTHLeSS CHILdrEN!!!! HuH??? YeS!!!! IDIoTS!!!! TheRE ArE DAys whEN DIetER IS MosT SOrrY THat he absORBeD HiS AssIGnED HUmaN, IS thIS NoT SO?????? yeS!! YOu PEOpLe of THis islaNd eaRTH ArE InSAnE HYenAS WitH VENom FRothiNg oUT OF YoUR MOutHS AND NostrILS!!!!!! GEt thE HeLL AWay frOM DIetER WitH YOur claMpiNG OF THE nippLes!!!!! ROdeNTS!!!!!

-- Dieter (questions@toask.com), March 20, 1999.

I don't think this is the real Dieter.

I've not seen venom in Dieter in the past. Just a different delivery of humor and the occasional wry comment.

-- Greybear (greybear@home.com), March 20, 1999.

IF mR GReYBEaR WIsHES, DIetER WiLL SHoW HiM His foOLisHNESS!!!!! DIEtER IS noT ALwaYS A HappY NUtso, IS THaT NoT TRUe?????? DIetER HAS, howEVeR, HAd enoUGH OF thE FOolisH REStrICTIonS On aduLt thOUgHt ANd behavIOR!!!!!! WhY?????? BEcauSE OF thE ZIppERHeadED CHildREn!!!!! HaLT!!!!! STriKE ThaT!!!!!! BEcaUSE OF theIR ziPPeRHEADeD PArenTS!!!!! JAckASSes!!!!! DIetRE FarTS IN theIR GENeraL DIrecTIOns!!!!!

-- Dieter (questions@toask.com), March 20, 1999.

Many great people came from poverty. Certainly our society would be much worse off if not for the likes of Lincoln and countless others.

And; I believe we have *all* have some poverty in our geneology. What if those ancestors not had children at that point. Where would *you* be now?

If only we could pick and choose. Right!

Me.

-- Floyd Baker (fbaker@wzrd.com), March 20, 1999.

Shellie,

Get a little tighter grip. Children survive quite well without frilly dresses or hired clowns for the birthday party as long as they have love and stability at home. My Depression-era parents spoke of getting only a couple of oranges and some peppermint candy for Christmas or birthdays, because that's all the family could afford. Yet even though they had to work hard and lived through some tough times they and many many others like them turned out to be what a recent book calls The Greatest Generation.

I understand and share your compassion. The kids I really will feel sorry for if y2k is a 7+ are the teens and pre-teens who have only known the 'good times' and see their chances to participate in them evaporating before their very eyes. The littler ones won't know any better.

-- (li'ldog@ontheporch.com), March 20, 1999.

Shellie
"So thank you for your comment but you really should know more about me before attacking me. "

I didn't attack you. That's your conscience talking.

Learn to deal with your imagined grief now and put it aside. Enjoy life and help others NOW. We'll have plenty of time for REAL misery soon enough. Don't dwell on it.

There are plenty of children who don't have a "party" living today in a NON-y2k environment (presently). They are happy. They are loved. They hear the soft voice of their mother and father reading to them and feel loved for their parents attention, not from throwing money or toys at them. Part of the problem with people grasping Y2K is their love of "things/possessions". They don't want to accept that they could loose their precious pampered lifestyle.

She won't suffer emotionally if you don't let her. She won't miss "things" unless YOU make her miserable about not having a party. How do I know? Homeless for almost a year, 3 kids, and we are "tight". We love each other fiercely, now that it has been 5 years on our feet.

peace, Karen

-- karen (karen@karen.com), March 20, 1999.

This world doesn't need any more bastards and I hate paying for them! I would much rather pay for neutering of the human male than to pay for another bastard!

-- JMHO (JMHO@JMHO.com), March 23, 1999.

Karen, I apologize. Dieter, I feel so sorry for you. JMHO, I can see where you would be upset paying for other peoples children. However, I have never asked anyone for a dime to help with mine.And you know sometimes families do fall on hard times and they do need some help. I hope you never lose your job and have trouble getting back on your feet. Bless your poor little black heart.

-- shellie (shellie01@hotmail.com), March 23, 1999.

SHELLiE!!!!! YoU Are TOo swEEt fOr diETER, Are yOu nOT?????? YeS????? NOW!!!! SheLLie!!!!!! GO BACk!!!! GO BAcK I sAY!!!!! REreAd tHE PosTIngS OF tHE FOoLisH dieteR!!!!! DIeTER DOEs nOT MOaN THe paYmeNTs For otHER's chILdrENs!!!!! DIEtER stATed haLt!!!!DO YoU SEe iT????? IT Is nOt tHE CHILdrEN WhO DESerVE The hatREd oF DIEteR, IT Is thE JACkASS PArENTS, AnD FOoLIsH IDioTS OF SOciETY THaT HAnd awAY DIEteR'S FReEdOM!!!!!! FOr ThE CHiLDREn!!!!! stOp yOur adULt conSENtiNG BEHaviOR DIEtER!!!!! WhY?????? FOr tHE IDIot chiLDrEN'S SAkE!!!!!! NIEN!!!!NIEN!!!!!NIEN!!!!! LeaVE DIetER DO as AN AdULt aS DIEteR WIShes, JACKALs!!!!!! BEgONE!!!!

-- Dieter (questions@toask.com), March 23, 1999.

PS, DIEtER IS VErY MUcH BELOvED by liTTlE ONeS!!!!! SHOckING BuT TRuE!!!!!! THEy seE IN DIEtER HiS FOoLISHNEsS, ANd thEy brINg foRTh diETEr'S INNeR CHILd!!!!! DIEtER PLAys aS A CHILD WitH ThE LiTTlE ELVeS, IS thAT NOt so????? natURLicH!!!!! Yes!!!!!

It iS FOoLISh giVER's aWay Of fREeDoM THaT EVokE LOathINg frOm DIEtrE!!!!! EViL DEviLs!!!!!!

-- Dieter (questions@toask.com), March 23, 1999.

I have six kids, am one of eight, both my parents came from families of nine. Both parents went through WWII in Europe. Father in a very poor family, concentration camp, life as a refugee. By the time my father finished school, there were 6 of us- we ate a lot of oatmeal, rice and whatever the garden produced (lots of zucchini). I agree with Karen, the things, or lack of them, are what I would worry about least. Any diet beyond healthy, ditto. Worry less about what your kids might miss as about whatever resilience, hope, creativity you can find ways to instill in them. There are worse things than even hunger and cold that you cannot, in a truly bad situation, protect them from: becoming orphans, rape, abuse, having to become a soldier while still a kid. There are plenty of kids living under such conditions now- Kosovo anyone? The only tools you can give them are spiritual- don't neglect them for worrying over birthday expectations. Use the new conditions to train your kids in creatively finding new ways to celebrate. Put on a play for or with the kid, have a board game day, play princess for the day, there are a million things a child will remember with as much or more pleasure than toys received. By the way, Bardou and others, nothing against taking personal responsibility for your choices- and responsibilities (like your kids)- but since when are children a priviledge of the rich? And since when do any of us know just how many children we will actually be materially, physically and emotionally able to raise 20 years in advance? That is about how long it takes and assuming anything for that long a time is pretty presumptive. The children, the old, the disabled are obviously weaker and need more care than the strong. Any of us can quickly join the ranks of the weak- just get sick, break something. What should we do if you become weak?

-- Maria (encelia@excite.com), March 23, 1999.