I'm at a loss to uncover the true significance of the Johnny K and other uberspinsters advice re: "have copies of all financial records". Not that I'd be caught DEAD without such, natch, however, the sense of the rec in-context has me baffle-gabbed.

In the event of loss of access by institutions to records of inviduals' accounts, would they accept such documentation to re-establish accounts ? Just doesn't make sense. What if I'd made a change in between last printing and system shutdown ? How can this be verified ? What about small and large scale counterfeiting ? If the uberspinsters say "it is just for verification from the institutions own hard records, I say why then do they need anything other than id to establish the link ?

Seems to me if it came to the point of institutions using personal paper copies of pre-apoc records to re-establish accounts (and how resurrect, electronically?) the economy is gone and a new world has begun.

-- Blue Himalayan (bh@k2.y), March 14, 1999

Answers

Exactly. So will it be.

-- TEOTWAWKI (coming@sooner.now), March 14, 1999.

I think it's mainly so you feel like you're doing something to protect yourself and it'll keep you busy for a while with the illusion that those bits of paper will actually have any value. Of course, you're right, banks and other orgs are not going to go by records that YOU have, but you're not supposed to know that.

-- illusion buster (see@through.em), March 14, 1999.

I don't know about your bank but mine uses paper copies as well as computer entries for everything done at the bank. I personally plan to go and stand in line on November and December 30 to get a print out of my account info. Same with my husband. If things are too backed up or out of control in December, I have all of my check carbons, statements, withdrawl and deposit slips from 1985 anyway so things can be put back together. If I were a bank or other financial institution with limited confidence that account information could be accurately transferred across the dateline, I would close/freeze accounts one or two days early and back it all up with a massive download and printout (with adequate warning to my customers of course).

Some information is fine and could be used in case of dispute such as receipts of payment of insurance premiums with policy number and coverage dates depicted. Be sure to have kept a hard copy of the policy. Keep mortgage payment receipts with the month and year to which it is to be applied, especially any after a bank statement or mortgage statement. Keep latest account balances of credit cards or other debts. (We will have paid everything off except our mortgage.) Obtain any medical records that aren't hand wriiten including and especially hard copies of prescriptions that are refillable. Get retirement account balances, IRA and 401K balances. Keep copies of pay stubs with direct deposit and automatic payment info. Most everyone keeps these things but it's a good idea to keep them handy and in order. One piece of advice: If paying off something such as a vehicle that needs to have a lien released prior to ownership documents released by the state, county or whatever, plan to do that very soon as it takes time for the wheels to turn at the finance offices and at the state. If it is impossible, keep all payment and account balance records handy. I'm sure I've forgotten something but this is the gist of the record issue.

I really hope things don't get that messed up but we all know how it is trying to get money out of the bank if the computer is down. As we live more complicated and messy lives, it becomes harder to simply keep track of, much less guard all of our assets. Yesterday's simple passbook account looks lovely right now but we wanted the convenience of on-line transfers etc...sigh.

-- Ramp Rat (Aviation_R_us@noname.nocity), March 14, 1999.

Records may be amusing to survivors

-- Maybe (survivors@y2k.gov), March 14, 1999.

Ramp Rat,

Been there, done that. Still doing that. Have medical bills that have been paid, complete with corresponding cleared checks. Doesn't matter though. If it's not in the computer then it just ain't so.

If you get a Year 2000 bank statement that shows a large withdrawal error, how are you going to prove that you didn't make that withdrawal?

-- Been (there@oddsw/puter.com), March 14, 1999.

Believe it or not, during this media conference with the press about preventing panic (RealPlayer required)...

http://webevents.broadcast.com/freedomforum/mar99/freeradio990310.ram

...John Koskinen said that even this would be a bad idea if everyone did it at the end of December 1999. He mentioned this near the end of the conference during a question and answer session. He had been talking about the danger of 200 million Americans all doing the same thing at the same time, such as getting a fill-up at the gas station.

One of the things that bothers me about January 2000 is that millions of small business owners will most likely have to upgrade their PC software or hardware. I don't think the system could handle that, even in normal times.

Three days is all it will take to fix most Y2K problems in early January 2000? I don't think so.

-- Kevin (mixesmusic@worldnet.att.net), March 14, 1999.

As I stated in my first post, my particular bank (credit union) uses paper copies for everything so hopefully that won't happen. But, in the case that you stated, I would retain an attorney and fight it out. Would I win? Who knows. The alternative is to liquidate and I can't do that nor can my husband. Could we convert our bank accounts to a pure passbook arangement? Who knows. It might be worth a look see. Our particular contingency plans as far as bank money goes have not been solidified, but I personally would be very uncomfortable with cash in the amount that we have in our accounts anywhere on the premesis either here at home or at work, a large safe notwithstanding. I don't think that safety deposit boxes will be all that safe for cash or commodities like gold in a bad Y2K situation so I have ruled them out. Our retirement plans, IRAs and 401Ks are not liquid so we are keeping records, moving them into as safe a venue as possible and are hoping for the best. I will have enough cash on hand to float us for a while as a precaution.

Is this a naive stance? Maybe. My particular view is not a TEOTWAWKI scenario. I see a good sized recession as a result of Y2K cascading failures abroad more than in North America and as a product of Y2K remediation costs. I don't see the massive systems failures our more gloomy posters see. But I could be wrong but that's what plan B is for. If TEOTWAWKI happens, just how good will my money be anyway? I plan to head to the family farm, trade my skills and hard labor for the things that I need and lastly, adapt.

-- Ramp Rat (Aviation_R_us@noname.nocity), March 14, 1999.

use of records 1. eat them 2. burn them 3. write on them 4. paper airplanes 5. TP 6. ? i wont need them i plan on disappearing the real reason=when you apply for any type of guvmint assistance in a disaster you must prove income, identity, address etc. there justification to deny you stuff will come if you dont have records of some sort. this will allow you to receive the mark so you can buy and sell. you will need more than your drivers license. your records also will assure your spot on the train to the shelter. "records" who needs em.

-- Eating (cellulose@dinnertime.gov), March 14, 1999.

let's see, now. Keep hard copies of all my financial records. Now for how far back should I do that? Say about 3 days to maybe a week? About as long as a bad storm?

-- lilsparky (FGI@now.com), March 14, 1999.

Ramp Rat,

I'm with a Credit Union as well. Truly a pleasure to do business with them. Up until recently.

Two meetings with their Y2K coordinator have been fruitless. I can't get an answer as to when they might be finished with remediation, nor testing. Not even target dates.

I've approached the Y2K coordinator with the attitude that I'm inquiring on behalf of a few dozen family members, friends & co- workers. I've made it clear to them that I'm well-versed with the "big picture" of Y2K. We've discussed the threat which panic poses to them. Still I can't get any answers, other than they are working on it!

At one point, when I mentioned that our 'group' would have to taking our business elsewhere in the next couple of months if the Credit Union could not give us relevant info on their compliance, the Y2K coordinator grinned (slyly) & stated that no other financial institution in our area is claiming compliance at this time (she's correct).

What is your experience?

-- Bingo1 (howe9@pop.shentel.net), March 14, 1999.

Ramp Rat,

I think it is extraordinary for a financial institution to keep physical records of everything. I work in the insurance industry and I don't believe the insurance companies keep physical records except for the old records from way back.

Has your Credit Union done this as a preparation for Y2K?

PS I have a little suspicion your credit union is a teacher's credit union and that it has done this probably not as a Y2K preparation. I am just curious..

-- Rick (doc_u_ment@hotmail.com), March 14, 1999.

I know this isn't the correct place to post this....but here it is anyway. I wasn't about to start a topic for fear of being pelted to death with moldy rice. Where's Andy??? Anyway, this fellow on the Y2K News Magazine Government Forum wrote a very long post about concentration camps in the U.S. No verification of course, but here is a link he gave. Would someone check this out and comment. I don't believe it, but I would like to hear what others have to say. http://members.localnet.com/~bobg/ifa29.htm.

I hope this link is right. Talk about causing panic???

-- gilda jessie (jess@listbot.com), March 14, 1999.

Rick,

It is a small four city/town federal employee's credit union. They have claimed in their newsletters that their remediation is 100% complete as far back as last November. I have been with them since 1985 and they have always done paper as a back up to computer transactions. On their paper transactions they even go into how many bills of what denomination have been distributed when cash is withdrawn and deposited. I have yet to discuss the money issue as I am pretty busy working on hard details like food, water and heat but I'll get to them in a month or so.

Bottom line, I will have food, water, cash, rudimentary home based utilities in place then I'll start worrying about my money situation.

-- Ramp Rat (Aviation_R_us@noname.nocity), March 14, 1999.