Cheap, Simple Alternative Energy System (You Probably Have Most Of It Already)

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For those Yourdonites high on "GI" and low on cash from buying all that food, I thought I'd mention a low-cost, low-hassle alternative energy system that most people can put together themselves. You say you don't have money for a solar panel system, or even a small generator? Well, I'll bet you have a generator already; it's called a car. It even has a way to store energy - a battery. All that's needed is a long extension fitted with a lighter plug on one end to plug into the dashboard lighter socket, and a few 12 volt bulbs and sockets for use inside the house. Add a 12 volt nicad battery charger, and you'll be able to charge batteries for radios and flashlights.

Using two small tailight bulbs for 5 hours a night, as well as charging a couple nicads now and then, shouldn't require starting the car more than once a day and running it at a little above idle for a few minutes. At that rate, a full ten-gallon tank should last for a long time. If you can store extra gas, so much the better. Replacing the car's stock battery with a combination starting/deep-cycle type would be a good idea, as normal auto batteries can be damaged by even small discharges of this type over time. Better yet, have a pair of these batteries that you can swap every so often, so you're sure of having a charged one to start the car if you inadvertently leave the lights on too long. Be absolutely sure to fuse ALL connections for fire safety - don't rely solely on the vehicle's lighter fuse to prevent a fire. Fuse with 1 or 2 amp fuses for each bulb and the charger. Bulbs get very hot, so keep them away from anything burnable. Remember, this setup is for dire emergency use only... if you burn down your house because you were careless or ignorant with this system, your insurance company (if there's any left) likely won't cover you.

Standard disclaimer: This system description is just an idea, and if you have any doubts about your ability to safely build or use it, don't attempt it.

-- sparks (wireless@home.com), March 12, 1999

Answers

Seriously consider the optional generator of a lawnmower engine and an ambulance alternator mounted on one frame. (Use a reasonable keywayed pulley for the mower drive shaft and a reasonable belt to drive teh alternator)

Chuck

-- Chuck, a night driver (reinzoo@en.com), March 13, 1999.


Here is a couple of links on cheap generators Brian

Generators

the 12 Volt Fishing Buddy, a generator
Home Brew Power: Building your own generator.
The Juice Page


-- Brian (imager@ampsc.com), March 13, 1999.

Picture :o)

A completed generator

-- Brian (imager@ampsc.com), March 13, 1999.


Those small gas engine/alternator generators are ok, and I've built a couple myself over the years, but they have several big disadvantages over the setup I described.

1. Ability to be implemented by almost anyone

Anybody can set up the system I describe, even with almost no mechanical knowledge. Building a genset from parts is a whole 'nother matter, and most won't/shouldn't attempt it.

2. Noise

This is a biggie. Compare the sound of your car idling to the sound of a lawnmower. Want company?

-- sparks (wireless@home.com), March 13, 1999.


Great thread! I wish I had this information about 2 years ago. I think I'll make another one just for fun!

-- Puddintame (dit@dot.com), March 13, 1999.


Remember to have a good supply of fuel to run the car or generator, or whatever.

-- linda (smitmom@hotmail.com), March 13, 1999.

Great idea sparks, really.

I want to do this but I have to clarify things with a few questions: (1) How do you fit an extension cord with a lighter plug on one end? Is this a regular Radio Shack product?

(2) Why 12 volt bulbs?, do you mean automobile taillight bulbs (as mentioned later in your post?) How about regular light bulbs which are 60 Watt or greater. Won't 12-volt bulbs be dim?

(3) As to "sockets for use inside the house" will the regular computer power strip serve?

(4) If Iwant to upgrade my battery to the "starting/deep-cycle type" what exactly do I tell the employee at the auto parts counter? I have not noticed this type of battery before.

(5) How, specifically do I fuse ALL connections for fire safety. What specific product do I use for this purpose?

Thanks

-- Rick (doc_u_ment@hotmail.com), March 13, 1999.


Just read in my new ham radio book a warning against overloading that cigarette lighter with something that draws to much power for the wires to handle. That's why the 12-volt lights. They'll run your battery down slower too. Got LEDs?

-- Shimrod (shimrod@lycosmail.com), March 14, 1999.

Actually, on a 12V system, you MUST use 12V lights (unless you use additional devices to convert the voltage to a higher or lower value to use lights rated for other voltages). If you try to use normal household bulbs on 12 volts, they just won't light up -- they are designed to run on approx 120 volts. Bulbs must be powered with the voltage they are designed for -- it has nothing to do with lower power consumption/light output.

You can get 12V bulbs in a wide variety of wattage (power) ratings. A good source is the local "Home Depot" or equivalent -- there are many types and sizes of indoor and outdooor lamps and bulbs designed to run on 12 volts. These "low voltage" systems typically use a transformer to convert the 120V AC (alternating current) from the wall outlet down to 12V AC to power these lamps. The bulbs don't care, though, whether they are being powered by 12V AC or the 12V DC (direct current) that comes from a battery. And, many of them are Halogen, which puts out a nice white light, and is more efficient than typical incandescent bulbs. In other words, you get more light for the electrical power you are consuming. Very important in this kind of a situation.

There are a couple other things to consider if you are thinking about using your car battery and charging system as a power supply...

First, automotive alternators usually only need to provide maximum output for a short time after starting the engine. The battery power used to start the engine is quickly recharged back into the battery, and then the alternator only needs to provide the power to operate the electrical devices in use at that time (ignition/fuel injection, radio, blower, lights, etc.) Recharging deeply discharged batteries, on the other hand, forces maximum alternator output for extended time periods. It would cost more to build alternators suitable for this kind of demanding service, and automakers typically don't do it. Makes sense generally, since you'd be paying more for something that is rarely, if ever, needed.

Yes, I know most everyone has had their car jump-started, and then driven it to recharge the battery. The fact that there was not an immediate alternator failure does not mean that it wasn't hard on the alternator. If this is done regularly you may not remain so lucky. I have been in the auto biz 3 decades (engineer, tech instructor, shop owner, etc.) and have seen a number of cases of repeated alternator failure in this kind of situation.

Also, as Sparks mentioned, you run the risk of discharging your battery to the point where it won't start your car. Oopsie -- not good at all! And, normal car batteries deteriorate rapidly when deeply discharged, which is what we're talking about here. So, you need to get another battery; a "deep cycle" battery which is designed to work well in this kind of service. For example, I recently bought a "group 27" (fairly large) "deep cycle/trolling" battery at WalMart for around $55. (No not the kind of trolling we have around here!).

So, now we have a battery suited for our purposes, and we can connect it to the car for recharging, and use it independently from the car so the car's battery is not discharged or damaged. The next issue is: do we REALLY want to recharge it with the car? In addition to the potential for alternator damage, fuel consumption should be considered. If the electricity is out for an extended time, you probably won't be able to buy gas, either. Running a car engine to develop the 1/2 to 1-1/2 horespower needed for the alternator wastes a lot of gas, and it's not very good for the engine. Especially as it is warming up. Sure, this could be better than nothing in an emergency that you are suddenly faced with, but this is still March. Unless you are totally broke (and have nothing left to sell), you might want to consider...

A small solar PV (electric) panel, designed for RV use. You should be able to find one for $100 or less which will provide the power to do what we are talking about. And it will do it for years, if necessary, without risking damage or rapid wear to your car's alternator and engine, or making any noise. Many of the small panels sold for this type of use have voltage regulation built in so they won't overcharge your battery.

I know I've drifted from the "no cost" premise of the original post. The idea is good, and well presented, but I wanted to mention a couple downsides and inexpensive alternatives that should be considered by anyone who is thinking of going this route. Most people, given the months remaining could, if necessary sell a few non- essential things to get the small PV panel. Or just use the money you were planning to spend on the gas and storage cans.

For those with more interest, there is a website with great plans and illustrations for a deluxe version of this project. They show a battery in a nice plastic box with a voltmeter (very helpful), a small 120V inverter (so you can run normal plug-in devices), cigarette-lighter sockets for the 12V devices, etc. Even if you don't want to spend the $$ for the fancy stuff it is worth a look to see how it works:

http://www.rain.org/~philfear/how2solar.html

Best wishes with whichever route you take...

-- Randy Jones (randyjones@techie.com), March 14, 1999.


PS (follow up to the previous message):

Here is another website with a "deluxe" but slightly different version of a small solar-charged battery system. There is quite a bit of good info on a project/system like this. Some good links, too.

http://www.netrover.com/~cbushell/solar/solar1.html

The link didn't work earlier, but does now, so keep trying if you get an error message...

-- Randy Jones (randyjones@techie.com), March 14, 1999.



Sparks, Randy, or anyone else,

Several questions:

1. The argument about the light duty alternator makes sense. Where can you get an alternator designed for continuous duty? Is this why I've seen the references to "marine" alternators and "ambulance" alternators.

2. If it takes 1.5 to 2 horsepower to spin the alternator, where can I get an engine that small? I have plenty of sources for 3.5 horsepower, but I don't recall seeing any at 2 or under. At least not 4-stroke. Can you get a 1.5 to 2 horse 4 stroke with a horizontal shaft. Does it matter whether the shaft spins clockwise or counterclockwise?

3. Does anyone use a two stroke in these applications?

-- Puddintame (dit@dot.com), March 14, 1999.


Thanks, Randy, for the excellent input and clarifications. I agree, if the money is available for a small generator, that's the way to go. Doing it the way I outline is indeed stressful on the car and the battery - it's more of a "last ditch" for those who just cannot go any other way, or who find themselves in a situation where expedients like this must be used.

Puddintame, you asked:

1. The argument about the light duty alternator makes sense. Where can you get an alternator designed for continuous duty? Is this why I've seen the references to "marine" alternators and "ambulance" alternators.

Randy knows better than me about this, but shops in your area that specialize in auto electrical work can probably supply you with one. Be sitting down when they quote you a price, though.

2. If it takes 1.5 to 2 horsepower to spin the alternator, where can I get an engine that small? I have plenty of sources for 3.5 horsepower, but I don't recall seeing any at 2 or under. At least not 4-stroke. Can you get a 1.5 to 2 horse 4 stroke with a horizontal shaft. Does it matter whether the shaft spins clockwise or counterclockwise?

You'll need that extra hp from the 3-horse to overcome friction losses and alternator starting inertia, so a 3hp is fine for use with an alternator. I don't believe that an automotive alternator is directional... at least the Delco's with internal regulator I've used in the past weren't.

3. Does anyone use a two stroke in these applications?

I have a beautiful little generator that Sears sold a decade ago... it uses a 1.2 hp 2-cycle engine and produces 400 watts AC. Most folks will tell you that a 2-cycle will self-destruct in short order, but this little gem (with a Shibauru engine) works fine after all this time. It needs overhaul more frequently than my big genset, and you must be precise in mixing the oil for it, but it's a keeper nonetheless.

If you want a similar generator, the tiny Honda 350 uses a similar 2-cycle engine for 350 watts AC output... reliable and fairly quiet, as all Hondas are.

-- sparks (wireless@home.com), March 14, 1999.


Great thread, very useful. Randy, you have a way with explaining things, and I appreciate the detail and have learned a lot. A couple of questions about charge controllers, for you or anyone else.

>> Many of the small panels sold for this type of use have voltage regulation built in so they won't overcharge your battery.

Shouldn't we be better safe than sorry and use a small charge controller anyway? (there are some for around $30, such as the Steca). I noticed on the solar setup on the rain.org site, he uses a voltmeter which monitors the voltage, but no actual charge controller.

If a 10-watt solar panel is rated at, say, 18.6 volts at peak power, isn't this voltage too high to use on a 12-volt battery without a controller? Or do I misunderstand? Is the reason for having a charge controller only to control the rate of charge and making sure the charging stops when the battery is full? - or as the term "voltage regulation" suggests, doesn't it have to do with the voltage too?

I am new at this and trying to understand the concepts as I go.

Meanwhile I have about as low tech, cheap a solar setup as you can get. I had on hand a 2.5-watt solar panel (cost about $25) for topping off my car battery, and now want to experiment with using it to charge a small, sealed 10Ah lead-acid battery -- it's actually one of those "portable 12 volt power pack" things (a $49 item) which doubles as a 230 psi air inflator for car tires. With its 12-volt power outlet I am able to run a 9V short wave radio for a couple of days, a portable DC b&w television for 10 hours (if there will be anything to watch!), charge some Nicds, charge my Coleman fluorescent lantern (not necessarily all at the same time though :-). And run 2-watt LED lights for don't know how long. One nice thing about this is not having to mess with battery acid and such.

Now if I can manage to safely and effectively, and fairly speedily get this charged with the solar panel, I'll be set. That was my next step but I hesitated to use the solar panel without a charge controller, not knowing if I really need one or not. However, if the 2.5-watt panel turns out to be too slow at charging, I'll probably acquire a 10-watt panel, and in that case should think the charge controller necessary. Please advise!

(I'm hoping my priorities will permit building a bigger system too. But spartan as this is, I think the difference between having a little electricity, vs. having none at all, could be very gratifying.)

-- Debbie (dbspence@usa.net), March 14, 1999.


Hi Puddintame,

I believe the "ambulance" alternators are indeed the hard-core high reliability type. May cost as much as a big solar panel, though!!! Auto makers have offered many models over the years in a "police" version with beefed-up cooling systems, charging systems, etc, for high reliability in demanding service.

I recently got a new 110 Amp automotive alternator (free) which I plan to use with a 3 to 3-1/2 HP lawnmower engine. I'll size the pulley ratio to keep the engine in an efficient RPM range, while spinning the alternator at a low enough RPM to prevent it from developing full output. Perhaps 1/2 to 2/3 of maximum output would be reasonable to keep it "happy" over the long haul. Good ventilation for effective cooling is very important, as well -- heat is definitely the enemy here. I plan to do some testing while monitoring alternator output and temperature to see what seems reasonable.

If you have an "auto electric" shop in your area, it might be a very useful place to visit. I'm talking about the little shop with the "old timer" who's been rebuilding starters and alternators for a gazillion years. I know certain alternators have a reputation for UNreliability; I bet others tend to be exceptionally good -- and he would probably know which ones they are.

I'm planning to use a solar panel or two as the primary source for battery recharging, and only use the "generator" to make up for heavy demand or cloudy weather. The lawnmower engine will be modified to run on gas or propane, but I expect to use mostly propane. It will also exhaust into a "real" muffler to reduce noise to a tolerable level.

I don't think a 3 to 3.5 HP engine is an unreasonable match for this application. It isn't good for engine life or fuel efficiency to run at maximum power continuously. And, having the bit of extra margin doesn't hurt as the engine ages and is no longer able to deliver rated power. I'm hoping to find something in the 2.5 to 3.5 HP range for my project. What sources do you find useful for locating a good used one?

Two-stroke engines typically are less fuel efficient and noisier than similar four-stroke engines. They tend to be light weight and cheaper. I don't know of any that would be as good as a typical lawnmower-type engine, but maybe someone else will jump in if there is something out there worth looking at...

The direction of engine shaft rotation would affect how you need to mount the alternator to spin it in the correct direction. Many alternators have a fan for cooling, and they would not work too well when spinning backwards. I don't know if an alternator would work electrically if spun backwards from the "normal" direction. Can't think of a reason right now that would prevent it, but wouldn't want to say "no problem" without giving it some more thought. Also some "lip seals" used to seal oil/grease in bearings have a designed direction of rotation. Running backwards might be an issue there. In your experience, are the lawnmower engines readily available in CW and CCW shaft rotations, or is one direction the norm?

I'm also buying a bunch of white LEDs to reduce power consumption for certain lighting applications. Investing in cutting down the amount of power you need can result in a net system savings vs. buying more solar panels, batteries, etc. OddOne's bulk LED buy is about to go down, and the total quantity is now high enough to result in a REALLY good price...

-- Randy Jones (randyjones@techie.com), March 14, 1999.


Debbie, you're right about the +16 volts being too high for the battery, that's why you definitely need a charge controller. Without one, you'll eventually boil away the electrolyte in the cells, leaving the battery dead. Some panels are designed to be "self-regulating" by virtue of their having a lower voltage, say 14.2 volts. They aren't nearly as efficient as a normal +16 volt panel because the charging current goes way down as full battery charge is being reached.

With what you're going to want powered by your setup, I'd say that the 2.5 watt panel is inadequate... remember, there's going to be cloudy periods where you may have no sun for day, so you'll need to make the most of the sunny ones. A 10 watt panel will naturally be better, but if your pocketbook can afford it, get at least a 30 watt panel or more... then you'll have sufficient current for charging your batteries efficiently.

Hope this helps...

-- sparks (wireless@home.com), March 14, 1999.



Italics off

-- sparks (wireless@home.com), March 14, 1999.

off now.

-- a (a@a.a), March 14, 1999.

off

-- a (a@a.a), March 14, 1999.

I'm never quite so stupid as when I'm trying to be smart. I'd much appeciate someome turning the @#$# italics off, thanks.

-- sparks (wireless@home.com), March 14, 1999.

off? and thanks for the reply and information.

-- Debbie (dbspence@usa.net), March 14, 1999.

Sparks (and everyone),

Great thread -- lots of good ideas and info! As you say, using a little power from the car battery may be the only option for some folks. And, as Debbie pointed out, the difference between a little electricity and none at all would be very useful. How we gonna have tunes and watch the soaps without electricity??

Debbie, you're right -- using panels with higher voltage output and a charge controller (located at the batteries) is a much better way to go. Sparks mentioned some of the reasons. Another is the unavoidable voltage losses in the wiring between the PV panels and the batteries (if your panels are not located near the batteries). If the voltage is regulated/limited at the panels, and decreases further through the wiring, battery charging won't be as effective as you'd like. The actual losses will depend on the length of the wires (shorter is better), the size (gauge) of the wire (bigger is better), and the charging current. Think of "voltage" as the electrical "pressure" and "current" as the amount of flow. If you were comparing with a water pipe system, for example, the "voltage" would be the amount of pressure available to push the water through the pipes. The "current" would be the amount of flow taking place, as in "gallons per minute" coming out of the faucet. Small wires (light gauge) between your PV panel and the batteries would be kind of like a tiny or restricted water pipe between your house and the big water main under the street. As you try to use the water (current) the pressure (voltage) is reduced by the restriction (small wires). A larger or unrestricted pipe would allow water flow with minimal pressure loss, just like heavier gauge wire between the PV panel and batteries.

I only mentioned the self-regulating panels in an attempt to stay (more-or-less) with the low-cost theme of the thread. I plan to order two panels this week in the 50 to 70 watt range, along with a charge controller.

There seem to be a couple different types of charge controllers sold for these systems. Some use a relay (an electrically controlled switch) to disconnect the PV panels when the batteries are charged (or at night). Some use electronics to regulate the voltage to the appropriate level to maintain full battery charge. They allow maximum charging current (flow) from the panel(s) when the battery needs it to recharge, but then regulates the voltage (pressure) from the panels as the battery reaches full charge so they aren't overcharged. It's okay to keep charging voltage applied to the batteries continuously, as long as it's not much higher than normal battery voltage when they are fully charged.

These non-relay chargers also have "diodes" in the current path to keep current from flowing backwards from the battery through the solar panels at night, but the diodes introduce a small voltage loss during charging. The relay, on the other hand, introduces no significant voltage loss during charging, but typically consumes some current to remain on. I want to find out a bit more about the trade- offs before making a decision on the controller. On the other hand, if I keep putting it off, I may not have to worry about which one I prefer -- Heh, heh!

Debby, I agree 100% with Sparks -- get a bigger solar PV panel if possible. They only put out rated power under high sunlight conditions at mid-day, and there are a number of inefficiencies in the whole system that will make it less effective than the component specifications might suggest.

I have a catalog from Sierra Solar (www.sierrasolar.com) and they have some excellent info on calculating the size of PV panels and batteries you need to do what you want. (It may be on their website too -- I don't remember.) Even how to factor in the normal sun conditions for your geographic location and typical weather. This might be overkill for the small systems we are discussing here, but it might provide some idea whether our expectations are realistic given what we want to do vs. what we want to spend.

Enough rambling for now...

-- Randy Jones (randyjones@techie.com), March 14, 1999.


Sparks, Yeah if the heavy duty alternators are real expensive I guess it would be smarter to just keep burning out free ones.

Randy, It just seems like there's always someone selling used 3 horse mowers. I've got a spare in my backyard, so I might adapt it. It's a 6 year old Murray Mower with a Tecumseh engine. It cost $90 new. I probably couldn't get $15 for it now.

The clockwise question was prompted by a statement in the newest Northern Equipment Catalog stating that most horizontal shaft engines turn at 3600 rpm in a clockwise rotation, as you face the shaft. I guess this means that pretty much all of them rotate in the same direction.

-- Puddintame (dit@dot.com), March 15, 1999.


Exactly what type of failure do you get when you try to draw too much current from an alternator? Does it overheat and degrade the insulation on the windings or fry the diodes (if they.re internal) or what? . I don't see where more rotational resistance would wear out the bearings.

-- The Lone Rider of the Apocalypse (y2kbiker@bellatlantic.net), March 16, 1999.

Randy, Sparks:

The larger solar modules sound better all the time. And I don't want to be forced to put the batteries near the panel. Now I just need to be able to justify (make that "rationalize") buying one. But it is probably better to get the equipment now than wait, since there could be longer and longer delays; it's not a big industry. OTOH I'm guessing that the market for golf cart batteries (my choice) will be better come summer, being seasonal. So I will wait on that purchase. I looked for them at Sam's Club and they don't have any.

Randy, the non-relay charge controller you are looking at, would that be the ones with the new "pulse width modulation" (PWM) technology? From what I can see, this looks like the way to go. I don't know if there is any downside, other than cost. (There is no way to divert extra energy once the batteries are full. I don't know if controllers usually do that or not.) The upside is they add substantially to the batteries life since they don't go on and off, but regulate much more finely as you described. One in particular, the Morningstar ProStar, does automatic battery equalization, as well. thanks for the helpful feedback.

-- Debbie (dbspence@usa.net), March 17, 1999.


I wouldn't wait too long on the panels, Debbie. While far from being a cottage industry, it'll be the same old story if everyone tries to get them at once. If you can't find the golf-cart batteries at Sam's or Costco, go to any auto-parts store and tell them what you want. Interstate Battery delivers to a lot of the stores, and carry nice T-105 equivalents... 6V each, so you need a pair, and 220 amp-hours.

If you really can't find them, pick up a Sears Die-Hard Marine/Deep-Cycle battery, either the group size 24 (80 A/h) or 27 (110 A/h). They work well as long as you don't discharge them more than about 25%, and recharge promptly. When I got my first panels back in 1985, I used a pair of the 24's wired in parallel for 12V @ 160 A/h... and contrary to the conventional wisdom on this type of semi-deep-cycly battery, they lasted for over three years in daily service.

-- sparks (wireless@home.com), March 17, 1999.


Debbie,

One way to "rationalize" buying some of this stuff that is becoming scarce is to consider that, even if you decide you don't want to keep it, you'd probably be able to sell it later this year for considerably more than you paid for it! Think of it as an investment. I bet you won't want to sell it, though!

PWM isn't new, despite the claims of some charge controller companies; maybe just new to their product line. Many electronic circuits, especially digital stuff, work better when swiched fully on or fully off. So how do you get half power? Switch on, off, on, off... really fast, with the "on" time equal to the "off" time. You want a different power (flow) level? Vary (modulate) the time of the "on" pulses vs. the "off" pulses. Since the "width" of the pulses is considered to be the time (on a graph or an instrument called an oscilloscope) we have (ta-da!) Pulse Width Modulation. It is used for lighting control, motor speed control, and many other things.

I also find the Morningstar line interesting. They have a SunSaver line of controllers rated for up to 10 amps, which would a set of panels rated for a total output in the 150 to 170 watt range. Mr. Solar (www.mrsolar.com) has it for $41 or $54 depending on options. They are PWM and sound pretty good, but I wish I had a 3rd party who knew their reliability. To me, the warranty means very little -- If I end up really NEEDING these things, I am assuming there will likely be no warranty service available.

My current plans call for starting out with a couple 65 to 80 watt panels, or perhaps three smaller panels that will deliver roughly 150 watts. If I end up needing more, though, the SunSaver 10 would already be maxed out. So... I'm probably going to go with the ProStar 20, just to have a little growing room, if needed. And, for maximum long-term reliability, I'd rather have something that is not being operated at its maximum specification, even though the manufacturer may say it is okay to do so.

I plan to order this stuff within the next few days... Does anyone have any experience with particular suppliers?? Prices seem to vary quite a bit, and I don't necessarily want to just go with the lowest price. One possibility is to order the charge controller as a "test" and then order the panels if they handle the test order okay.

Anyone have any brand preferences on the panels based on personal knowledge or experience??

Sparks, Thanks for mentioning Interstate. I sold their batteries for years (with good results) when I had my auto service business, but didn't think of them as a source for the T-105s. Trojan's main facility is nearby, too, so I will see what they can come up with.

Lone Rider, Most of the alternator failures I have been aware of when they have been pushed too hard for too long are diode failures, but other failures (windings) are certainly possible, depending on where they cut corners the most on a given design. The old timer at the local auto electric shop would be a good source of that info.

Puddintame, Yep, lots of ~3 HP mowers around. Most seem to be the vertical shaft type, and it looks like this project would be easier with a horizontal shaft. Guess I'll just have to spend some time looking around...

-- Randy Jones (randyjones@techie.com), March 18, 1999.


Randy: I ordered the SunSaver 10, which came yesterday. I decided to get this component first, as a step to experimenting with/visualizing how it all works, before getting the rest.

Looked around at solar charger "kits" from various vendors. The advantage of these is the kit comes with the right components. I might save a lot of time and probably mistakes, by getting a kit. The kit would consist of panels, correct size wiring and fuses, and a controller (but I already have the controller now). Batteries I would get locally anyway, since freight would be prohibitive. However, the kit would have to be expandable, and not cost a whole lot more just because it's a kit. Haven't decided yet.

There is a "hamfest" swap meet here I'll go to on the 27th if I haven't bought anything before that. Should be interesting, sometimes you can pick up secondhand modules. But it may be better to buy new for the warranty and tech support. BTW, both Real Goods and Alternative Energy Engineering seem to have great tech support, prices a little higher than some. Roy at Four Winds participates on the forum, very helpful (check the archives). Whoever you deal with, make sure they were around before Y2k-2 ;-)

-- Debbie (dbspence@usa.net), March 18, 1999.


Randy this is in response to your comment about White LED's. It is true that LED's are VERY energy efficient, I should know I used to sell the things, but the fact is that White LED's are cost prohibitive, you would be better off to get A daylight visible yellow, or possibly Red, These are much cheaper and consist of one element instead of a mising of 3 different elements and a diffused lense to mix the different colors to get white. White Leds take more power because they are 3 different colored LEDS in one package and are less efficient due to the diffused lens. Yellow is fine to read and work by, it just adds a different Ambiance so to speak. Just my 2 cents worth.

-- Richard (Hondacon@cnnw.net), June 01, 1999.

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