I keep seeing people post garbage saying that this forum is somehow like a "cult" or words to that effect, that people who are worried about Y2K have fallen prey to shysters because they are weak minded, etc. I can't say that I'm any kind of expert, but everything that I have ever read about cults seems to contradict this.

1. The most common theme I see from people who are the most pessimistic about Y2K is: "nobody knows what will happen in 2000". But I thought cults were always ABSOLUTELY SURE of what is going to happen, and would not hear otherwise.

2. Many times, again from the more pessimistic people it seems, the advice is always given: take a break from Y2K, from this forum, spend some quality time with your family, etc., etc., it will do you a world of good. Yet, cults always try to discourage this, they want you to stay glued all the time to what they are preaching.

3. I have never seen anyone express the opinion "Y2K is going to be the end of the world", and then not try to back it up with what they believe are their REASONS for believing this. Again, cults never have to worry about this stuff, since they are completely faith driven. Interestingly, people who think things are going to be just fine seem to do this a lot, though of course many present their reasons too.

4. Finally, a big thing with cults is that they are personality driven, like a Jim Jones type is directing everything. A lot of pollyannas try to say that Gary North or Ed Yourdon is serving this role, but if you just read what people who are worried about Y2K write, they never say "I think the banking system will collapse -- because Gary North SAYS SO" or "I think most businesses won't get the Y2K problem fixed -- because Ed Yourdon SAYS SO". Yet, pollyannas are always trying to fixate on the personalities, trying to say that since North has some pretty strange religous beliefs about the end of the world or whatever, that everything on his web site must be ignored.

Anyway, this is not a cult, and to say that is highly insulting to anyone who is genuinely concerned about the Y2K problem.

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.com), March 12, 1999

Answers

I get the feeling that those people may themselves belong to the Czar Koskinen cult!!!

-- Cult (members@gov.com), March 12, 1999.

Perhaps the answer is as simple as the fact that the denial trait is manifested differently in humans than it is in ostriches.

-- Hardliner (searcher@internet.com), March 12, 1999.

King of Spain

Great points, wish I'd thought of them. Of course, I can't agree with everything you say, or someone would claim that you've brainwashed me.

Unfortunately, you left the trolls with an opening. You've told them exactly what you find insulting, which virtually guarantees more posts stating you're a cultist.

To anyone out there who doesn't have their head up their sand (sorry about the mixed metaphors) the evidence is overwhelming. We have a problem. I don't think any ten of us (the GI's) would agree on the degree of severity, but we all consider preparing essential.

Good luck!

-- Cowardly Lion (cl0001@hotmail.com), March 12, 1999.

Actually there is a very large Y2K cult around. It is the Cult Of They. Cult members are awe-struck by the power of They and ascribe superhuman powers to They.

You've probably heard cult members say, "They will fix it.", or "They won't let anything bad happen.", or "They have it under control." Note that by the usage of the word They, is it hard to tell if the cultists are mono or polytheists.

Apparently there is a sub-group of the Cult Of They that include a lesser god called Billgates which members make suplications to as well, ie., "Billgates will fix it.", et cetra.

Like many cults, it is expected that the Cult Of They will be rather short lived.

-- Ken Seger (kenseger@earthlink.net), March 12, 1999.

Powerful observation, Ken. Bingo.

The They cultists who try to convert the GIs back to the flock puzzle me no end. Why should they care? We're not tattooing ourselves, or shaving our heads? Are we just an intellectual challenge, or do they perceive us as a threats?

Whenever I'm belligerent or stupid enough to argue the idiocy of Southern Baptism with my extended SB family, I'm not trying to agnosticize them - just pointing out the more ludicrous aspects of the religion.

What are they Theyists trying to achieve with us? Intellectual submission? Laughs? Or are they just bored? I give.

-- Lisa (lisa@work.now), March 12, 1999.

Don't forget deJaeger's Not-An-Enemy-Of-The-People subCult.

I think what we have is a caste system. I was struck listening to the RealAudio tape of this week's press conference that the K-Man never argued that collecting a can of beans every week wasn't, individually, a thoroughly prudent idea. It was just that collectively there weren't enough cans of beans, and therefore, such prudent behavior *must* be labelled as panic to render it socially unacceptable. OTOH, governments and businesses are by definition irresponsible if they do not develop contingency plans, one of which is stockpiling. So, if you belong to the economy engine caste you *must* prepare or you will be penalized (dropped as a non-compliant vendor, etc.) But if you are merely a person, all wrath will be brought on you if you prepare. The function of the They Cult is to make sure people do not stray outside their assigned caste.

-- Brooks (brooksbie@hotmail.com), March 12, 1999.

Then there's the Cult Against They.

They are out to get us. They are going to send us to concentration camps. They are flying around in black helicopters. They are lying. They are spraying America with jet contrails...

-- They are coming (They@They.US), March 12, 1999.

i agree with you, king. people on this forum are just a bunch of individuals. i think cultlike behavior does exist wherever you find a group that is closed, paranoid, working on drawing up a list of enemies. that definition would include the political parties these days, and especially the white house, if you believe the comments from former staff like stephanopolous who say you're either with them all the way or you're considered to be against them. the lack of a middle ground is disturbing. that bunker mentality, us versus them, is very cultlike. where's the middle ground?

you could also argue that justice dept, microsoft, the press, academia, etc etc have some cultlike characteristics also, not to mention quite a few businesses and governments.

-- jocelyne slough (jonslough@tln.net), March 12, 1999.

King; Good post.The slightest whiff of a cult-like thread on this forum attracts prompt demolition from a multitude of very bright individualistic participants. Cult here? Not a chance!

-- Watchful (seethesea@msn.com), March 12, 1999.

O.k. non-cultists... a test.

Reactions to Yardeni's downgrade from a 70% to 45% chance of recession...?

anyone...?

~~~~~~~snip~~~~~~~~

Edward Yardeni, chief economist for the investment banking firm Deutsche Bank Securities Inc. and one of the most persistent drumbeaters on the Y2K issue, recently revised his estimate for a long global recession due to the glitch, from a 70% chance to 45%. "I've toned down the message partly because progress has been made," Yardeni said. "I would be happy to back off entirely."

~~end~~~~~

So...is he 'lying' a 'turncoat' or are you gonna buck the disease and admit, "hmmm...maybe it is getting better"

Will your head fear leader now downgrade his "10 yr depression" scenario?

(and if you don't think this place is cultish...you need to re-read a few of the thread titles...one that comes to mind is "how do we 'convert' more GI's?"...sheesh...pass the jell-o please)

-- Mutha Nachu (---@testing,testing,1,2,3.com), March 12, 1999.

Jeez, I was using "cult" as justification for spending so many hours in front of the temple, I mean computer, sifting words to find the holy threads.

-- Mitchell Barnes (spanda@inreach.com), March 12, 1999.

Get your facts straight, Mutha. Yardeni's most recent newsletter on this subject, the Y2K Reporter (2/22/99), shows he remains unchanged:

http://www.yardeni.com/public/y_19990222.pdf

"I remain at 70% [odds of a major recession] because I now have more alarming information about the slow pace of progress overseas."

-- Brooks (brooksbie@hotmail.com), March 12, 1999.

I just checked that out too Brooks, and found the same.

Mutha, can you verify where you got your recent information from regarding Yardeni's change?

-- Checking (out@thefacts.com), March 12, 1999.

Maybe Mutha is busy with the weather and all.

http://www.latimes.com/HOME/BUSINESS/UPDATES/lat_y2k990312.htm

-- Looker (looking@you.now), March 12, 1999.

Cults also do not encourage verification of information or independent research.

Cults do not condone self sufficiency, they want you to remain dependent on them.

-- Deborah (info@wars.com), March 12, 1999.

Looker,

Thanks for the URL. I shall add that to my Y2K Good News List.

-- Checking (out@thefacts.com), March 12, 1999.

It will be added to my good news list when Yardeni himself posts it on his website. As it stands right now at yardeni.com, his latest odds remain those of 2/22/99

Skimming over his March 8 essays does not look like he's feeling any more optimist, on the contrary.

Y2K and Forest Gump/Ready or not?/Mission Critical shell game?/To Russia with love/China syndrome/Y2K syndrome at nuclear power plants (file in pdf format)

-- Chris (catsy@pond.com), March 12, 1999.

The only cult around here is mutha nachu.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), March 12, 1999.

A cult implies that everyone who's a member thinks the same way. There's a diversity of opinion about Y2K on this forum, just as there usually is on a radio call-in talk show.

Of course a point could be made about the intentions of the talk show host--in this forum's case, Ed Yourdon.

I've read Ed and Jennifer Yourdon's "Time Bomb 2000" book, though. It strikes me a being written by people who are sane, intelligent, fair and non-manipulative.

How many of you who think this forum is a cult have actually read "Time Bomb 2000"?

-- Kevin (mixesmusic@worldnet.att.net), March 12, 1999.

I suppose if I were a Y2K optimist, I would be labeled a member of the cult called "Pollyanna Anonymous." Can't win either way. Call me whatever you like, it just makes me even that more determined to lock and load.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), March 12, 1999.

I haven't become an atheist and independant politically by joining internet cults.

-- Chris (catsy@pond.com), March 12, 1999.

Apparently, I'm the only one wearing the official Yourdonite cerimonial robes while reading the posts. Nuts. I guess now you're going to tell me to take down my Milne shrine.

-- d (d@usedtobedgi.old), March 13, 1999.