In the amateur radio service, we have a little tradition, I'm sure Chuck and other hams here could back me up on this... it's called "ignore the jammer". This means that we don't give those malicious little weenies who insist on creating interference the time of day, much less recognition in any form. Might I suggest that participants in this forum try this approach with the trolls and virulent DGI's? Troll-baiting, while perhaps entertaining to some, deflects us from the issues at hand and wastes bandwidth.

Ignore them, and they may go away... give them an audience, and you'll most likely have them as permanent fixtures.

-- sparks (wireless@home.com), March 11, 1999

Answers

Sparks; Good advice. Thanks

-- Watchful (seethesea@msn.com), March 11, 1999.

BOy AIn't tHAT THE TRuTH!!!! i HaTE thEM MEESeS TO PiECEs!!!! JACKALs!!!! by tHe WAY MR spaRks, DO yoU livE In a ciTY OR is iT JUsT A hamLEt?????

-- Dieter (questions@toask.com), March 11, 1999.

Old DiETeR seems to have disappeared. After several Dieter copycats, I guess it took the fun out of it for him. I understand his old lady left him and he's probably trying to get her back. In fact, she left a message saying she threw a brick through his monitor.

I also think it is a waste of time trying to convince the DGI on this forum. If they want to join the panic stampede this summer and fall, that's their problem! Let's try to keep this an informational site for the GI.

One comment...When ever someone comes up with a good idea, there are always several that say their idea is no good. Let's try to keep things more on the positive and not the negative!

-- Whytokay (whytokay@prepared.com), March 11, 1999.

Oh, sh*t! He just came out of the woodwork!!! He must have read my mind while I was typing. Damm! Will we ever get rid of the bugger???

-- Whytokay (whytokay@prepared.com), March 11, 1999.

Whytokay, DiETeR's our pet troll. I welcome him, he's really an oldtimer who went over the edge. Be charitable ;-) He hasn't lost all his good sense either, if you pay close attention ;-)

I'm with you Sparky. What's the code word (number?) in hammereese for being in total agreement?

-- Chris (catsy@pond.com), March 11, 1999.

DieTeR!!!! WilL YoU SToP BOtHERn THeSE GoOd FoLKs?????!!!??? HyEnA DiEtER BUZZErD!!!! YoU Go hOMe To MoThEr NOw, YoU HEaR!!!!!

-- Mrs.Dieter (answers@toask .com), March 11, 1999.

Ok!!! I HaVe HaD It WiTh yOU DAd!!! I Am SicK AnD TiReD OF YoU MaKiNG MoThER MAD!!! WiLl YoU KnOCk iT OfF????? Or Do I HavE To GeT ViOlEnT WiTh YoU??? YoU HYEnA DaDdY!!!!

-- Son Of Dieter (SonofaDieter@noquestions.com), March 11, 1999.

Oh, Sparks, you really started something!

-- Y2Kaos (Y2Kaos@nextyear.com), March 11, 1999.

OK Sparks, I'm guilty. But isn't that part of our job, to make people GET IT? Sure, some are hopeless and we shouldn't waste our time. But I think many sceptics may be on the edge, and if we show them the real facts they may come around. Why else would they be here? The more people that are prepared, the better off we all will be. We offer each other help here countless times every day. Shouldn't we try and do the same for those that aren't part of the club yet? <:)=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), March 12, 1999.

Sys(you are a)man of good intent. Hard to fault your motives.

-- Watchful (seethesea@msn.com), March 12, 1999.

SOn oF DIEtER!!!!! dieTEr is soRRy tO INFOrm yoU ThAT HE is SICk of BOtH You And thE OLD haG!!!!! yoUR GRaDES stINk, do THeY NOT????? IDIoT!!! cAn yOU LAMenT diETer'S ENdiNG OF moRe tuITIon fOR yoU???? inSOLEnt roDEnt!!!! diETrE HAS heLd diETeR'S TOngUE, buT YOu arE SO FaR GONE diETeR WiLL NoW TEll YoU!!!! yOu aRE A JACKaSS BUnGHOlE JUSt LIkE YoUR FAThER.... thE MAiLmAN!!!!!

-- Dieter (questions@toask.com), March 12, 1999.

OK Sparks, I'm guilty. But isn't that part of our job, to make people GET IT? Sure, some are hopeless and we shouldn't waste our time. But I think many sceptics may be on the edge, and if we show them the real facts You wouldn't be able to determine a "real fact" if it jumped up and bit your pen protector they may come around. Why else would they be here? The more people that are prepared, the better off we all will be. We offer each other help here countless times every day. Shouldn't we try and do the same for those that aren't part of the club yet? <:)=

There are many lurkers here, people who have not decided if Y2K is a manageable risk or an apocalyptical event. If said lurker were to listen to only propaganda from the True Believers (TBs) , then the decision making process would be faulty. What this ng lacks is balance. Unfortunately, it is the balanced vision which is so vehemently criticized by the TBs.

-- Vinnie (mail@bomb.com), March 12, 1999.

1) Yes, we usually try to ignore the bravo zero zed oh's but some it seems cannot.

2) Vinnie: As i have said, it took a fairly specific level of information and data to convince me that we were not going to enjoy a business-as-usual garden party in the coming year. Now, if someone wishes to bring the same level of data and information indicating that the work is indeed getting done, in a timely fashion, and with the required testing, etc.; I will be more than ecstatic.

This however will mean bringing to the table verified, verifiable completions, or companies which are in the throes of completion. I have had the "pleasure" of watching a project I was on fall woefully behind, while the status reports filed by the project management said we were on and ahead of schedule. I have worked on very large projects (one phase (out of seven) = 160,000 manhours of CONSULTANT time alone).

The folks who wish me to believe that 2000 and 2001 will be a busines as usual garden party will have to provide metrics from multiple organizations which show that remediation efforts are the first major projects to fly in teh faceof the standards (see any Capers Jones discussion of the metrics in Information Technology). Alternatively, refer to above point.

Just one, or two large banks, with verified completion of installation of tested remediated code, a dozen or so of the Fortune 500 announcing that Cap Gemini or Anderson has come in and audited their code and found it compliant, or one power company which has verified (via individual unit testing) that their embeddeds will handle the rollover, as will the rest of their systems, and that they will have sufficient back-up supplies to guarantee power is all I ask.

This should not be impossible, but it would appear that it is. Not only does it apear that it is impossible for ME to get this information, even teh SEC cannot seem to get this information. They have posted rules that, if enforced, would provide us with the true and accurate state of remediation in the whole Fortune 1000. they are unable to enforce their own rules.

Am I a tad frustrated? YES! Why am I a tad frustrated?? Because I truly WANT to believe what you believe, that 2000 is going to be an enjoyable century turnover, that the work will be done in time. But I need information. I need data. And woefully, there isn't anything that qualifies as data. There may be a couple anecdotes, but the plural of anecdote is NOT data.

Bring to the table this data, and I will change my position so fast you will get whiplash watching the change. Bring me this data. PLEASE!!

Chuck, who desparately wants to become a believer but just can't give up because of teh data.

-- Chuck, a night driver (reinzoo@en.com), March 12, 1999.

Vinnie,

Like I said, your ability to analyze real events is showing.

When was the last time you saw an avalanche with "balance"? It's not this "NG" (as you erroneously term it) that lacks balance, it's the situation.

Since you have it all together so well, how about some "balanced" commentary from you?

BTW, aren't you going somewhere on your spring break?

"It's Y2K, Stupid".

-- Hardliner (searcher@internet.com), March 12, 1999.

LeeeF mY zOn AlOnE, oR i ViL sChMaCk You uPsHiDe Ze HeAd!

-- Dieter's MaMa (pikonsomeone@alowerIQ.com), March 12, 1999.

BUt MaMmA!!!!!! DaDdY DoNe ToLD ME ThAt MY ReAL DaDDY IS ThE MaIlmAN!!!! BuT "YOU" TolD ME ThAT It WaS ThE MilKmAN!!! NoW Who WaS IT??? The MaIlmAN OR ThE MIlKMAN???? DADDy DiEtER Is A JaCkAl HyeNa, GooD FoR NoThIng, SLobbErInG IDIoT!!!! WiLl My ReAL DaDdY PlEasE StAND UP AnD BE ReCOGnIzED?? I WaNt My ReAL DAddY NOW!!! NoT ThAT DuMMY DiEteR DADdY!!!!! DddddddAAAAAaDddDdddDDdYyyYyYYY WhErE Are YoU ????

-- Son of Dieter (SonofaDieter@noquestions.com), March 12, 1999.

Balance Vinnie? I wish we could find some. Why is it that for every good news story we get here, we have a hundred bad. Lies from DOD. Missed deadlines. Increased spending. Spin from Kman and the gov and media in general. Why do you think this is, Vinnie? <:)=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), March 12, 1999.