Most of your population is spoiled, pampered. The people on welfare in your country live like royalty (electricity, vcr's, running water...need I say more) compared to the rest of the world.

You live in such bountiness, yet you still complain. You want MORE and MORE and MORE and MORE. And you waste SOOOO MUCH...there are people that would be ecstatic if they could even just eat the stuff that you throw away.

If Y2k is as bad as I've concluded it to be, I doubt many of the people in your fine country will be able to handle the ramifications.

I'm not cutting down your country, and I don't want Y2k to bring it down, or any country for that matter. There's enough suffering going on in the world as it is now. I love your country and would like to get in and make my dream come true, but I don't have the means to do so. At this point, I can only watch and dream, thinking, "someday..." But if you have serious problems due to this Y2k, you may be sitting in my spot where I am. sigh.

I just wanted to give you people some perspective here. You don't know the meaning of the word adversity. You have the means and the liberties to prepare if you wish. Take advantage of it, please!

-- Mikhail (doesitmatter@eatwhatyouget.org), March 10, 1999

Answers

I bristled at the title of your post, Mik. But you know what? You're right. We are a bunch of flabby, whining wusses. And if y2k turns out to be a disaster, it's gonna kick our jiggly Jell-O asses big time.

The [fatter] they are, the harder they fall.

-- rick blaine (y2kazoo@hotmail.com), March 10, 1999.

Rick, my friend, I titled this in a way that this would attract attention. I am glad someone responded. I'm doing some research, and wanted to check this site out.

I may not visit often. I'm just grateful to get my hands on Internet access when I can. Be grateful for what you have. I can only dream about it.

-- Mikhail (doesitmatter@eatwhatyouget.org), March 10, 1999.

Thanks for the dose of reality, Mik. Made me stop and think. I also was offended by the title. Definitely got my attention.

-- Tim (pixmo@pixelquest.com), March 10, 1999.

There are very, very few "silver linings" to the Y2K problem. But one that I can point to in my own life is an appreciation that I never had before of indeed just how fortunate we are, and how in the blink of an eye (or rollover of a date) it can be turned topsy-turvy. Even if Y2K turns out to be a fizzle, I for one will never look at things the same way again.

And thanks, Mikhail, I think that we all needed that.

-- Jack (jsprat@eld.net), March 10, 1999.

Mikhail, you are absolutely right, and the reasons we suck are:

Refined Sugars (Coca-Cola, candy bars, donuts, etc)

Refined Flour products ("cereal", what we call "bread", etc)

Television.

Advice: shoot your TVs, if ya got 'em, and eat no carbohydrates save for brown bread and fresh fruit.

Hope ya can sneak in someday - not all Americans have gone to hell.

-- Lisa (what@irony.here), March 10, 1999.

Mikhail

I think you're right too, at least about the current generation of Americans. We've never had to face the kind of adversity previous generations have - 2 world wars, the great depression etc. How will this country react if y2k is bad? I wish I could say that the vast majority of citizens would rise to the occasion and pull together, but sadly I can't. We've become a nation so badly splintered that there is no longer any cohesiveness or sense of community. We have become a bunch of selfcentered, spoiled brats. We think we are ENTITLED to prosperity, but the truth is, that the big bad world doesn't owe us a thing.

We need to be reminded sometimes how good we have it....

-- Online2much (ready_for_y2k@mindspring.com), March 10, 1999.

Mikhail

You are absolutely right. Not only are they spoiled and pampered, but they whine a lot about what they are given. The majority do not know the meaning of poverty. I will concede that we do have some that are in need, but they needn't be. Help organization abound everywhere, and the Welfare our very generous government helped some but harmed far to many - rather like the child who is never said no to. Has anyone ever been to Caracas and seen the cardboard city on the side of the mountain before you get to the city? That is poverty. Or been to India (Bombay)? While I am hoping for the best, if we get hit with the worst, perhaps the Great American Spirit will rise from the ashes and we will be better for it. The people on this Forum still have it and there are a lot of others out there who are preparing and worrying about who is not. My best to you and yours.

-- Valkyrie (anon@please.net), March 10, 1999.

Isn't it sad when it takes someone from the outside, who desperately seeks to enjoy the freedoms we were bequeathed with as a birthright, and the responsibilities to keep them - point out how far we've fallen as a nation?

Will it really take a disaster to wake our slumbering nation up to it's moral, political and economic decay that festers just below the surface?

Will it be too late when we do wake up?

At the moment, I think it will be.

I have no other data to suggest otherwise.

To all our peril.

Got Rugged Individualism?

-- INVAR (gundark@aol.com), March 10, 1999.

The prevalent image of Americans is as soft, sit-com slime, as celebrity scum, donut-guzzling morons. But there are PLENTY of people in this country who struggle with cancer and other chronic diseases, who struggle with disabilities, who take care of family members who suffer, plenty of single moms working like dogs to raise their kids, grandparents watching grandkids while daughter works, as well as a goodly number of people who hike, rock climb, race bikes, run marathons, etc. We're not ALL slobs. A lot of it is the false image spewing from the optical sewers. Rick is right: shoot your tvs. Or, not wanting to waste ammo, a crowbar will do the trick. Maybe wait for the next Koskinen press conf.

-- Spidey (in@jam.com), March 10, 1999.

Credit where credit is due dept.

Lisa said shoot your TVs. Excellent suggestion.

-- rick blaine (y2kazoo@hotmail.com), March 10, 1999.

Gimme What You Got

Baby picks off your plate-yours looks better

And she throws hers on the floor

Here, in the home of the brave

And the land of the free

The first word that baby learns is "more"

So you're out there floating like a big, puffy cloud

With the pool and the charcoal

and the kids and the wife

'Til the reruns of your dreams are interrupted

And you step out into life

 

And it's still gimme, gimme what you got

I said gimme, gimme what you got

(I want it, I want it)

Gimme, gimme what you got

Now it's take and take and takeover, takeover

It's all take and never give

All these trumped up towers

They're just golden showers

Where are people supposed to live?

You can arm yourself, alarm yourself

But there's nowhere you can run

'Cause a man with a briefcase

can still more money

Than any man with a gun

I said gimme, gimme what you got

Said gimme, gimme what you got

Gimme, gimme what you got

Gimme, gimme what you got

You got the price of admission

You don't have to ask permission

To take somethin' from another man

You cross a lawyer with the godfather, baby

Make you an offer that you can't understand

From Main Street to Wall Street to Washington

From men to women to men

It's a nation of noses pressed up against the glass

They've seen it on the TV

And they want it pretty fast

You spend your whole life

Just pilin' it up there

You got stack and stacks and stacks

Then, Gabriel comes and taps you on the shoulder

But you don't see no hearses with luggage racks

Gimme, gimme what you got

I said gimme, gimme what you got

I said gimme, gimme what you got

(I want it, I want it)

Gimme, gimme what you got

-- Don henley (eagles@music.com), March 10, 1999.

Mikhail,

Amen!

-- Mutha Nachu (---@pinkandvioletforget-me-nots.com), March 10, 1999.

you're right we are slobs. Money grabbing, fat, take me home Drew Carey's on tonight people. But please remember that if we were to shoot all the TVs in America and get rid of junk foods and refined sugars,There would be a mass rebellion of teenagers. After all, we worship TVs and of diet is, oh let's see, sugars, junkfood, and....sugar(did I mention sugars and junkfood). So unless you want us to starve don't take away our staple food group. Also remember that without Tv's to entertain us we would fall to hanging around grown-ups. Complaining and griping, giving you guys head-aches, you'd never get rid of us. for your own good (and sanity) don't take away our food and entertainment.:)

-- Jean Cook (cook.r@csaatl.com), March 10, 1999.

Spidey,

I should also like to add the countless numbers of Americans that risk their lives striving for a better way of life for others in less fortunate countries on a daily basis.

America is a relatively young country that has achieved so much dealing with a world that had, and still has, deep rooted troubles that stem way back ever before it's very existence.

America has for the most part strived for a better way of life for all. It has extended her hand worldwide and many have been eager to grasp and take from her giving back very little in return.

You need to look beyond the superficial and see what lies underneath. Trends come and go. People have always whined about their lot. Heck people were so fed up years ago that they boarded ships and set sail for a land to start a better way of life.

Whining and complaining is all relative isn't it really?

-- Resident (alien@USA.com), March 10, 1999.

Well said Resident!! We sure as hell ain't ALL bad! But Mikhail is right about welfare - it sucks (for the most part)!!

Deano

-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), March 10, 1999.

I wish you the best in your endeavors Mikhail and if I can ever help you in any way, just ask. :-) Thank you for reminding me that I am lucky to live here in America. Having friends all over the world is a very good thing. May I ask where you are, geographically? Bobbi

buzzbyte

http://www.buzzbyte.com

-- Bobbi (bobbia@slic.com), March 10, 1999.

We are sissies? No way! We gots coatches up the gazoo. We have the World Series where we are the only ones in the world. We yoyo our fat up and down with thousands of diet programs forking over billions of dollars. And you call us what?

-- fly .:. (.@...), March 10, 1999.

Well I hate to say it, but I think we have earned the right as Americans to be fat lazy slobs if we want to be. Economically speaking, one of the reasons Americas economy is so much better than others is that we don't have the huge ammounts of graft and corruption in the government and economy that other countries do. Most places in the world you can not conduct business unless you bribe everyone and his brother. This REALLY deters economic development.

A second thing that makes our economy great is that we teach that Entreprenerialship (sorry) is a good thing and worth pursuing. In Japan, for instance, it is hard to start a new business in the face of all the new ones. A guy like Bill Gates would have a difficult time getting a new idea into production in other countries. An idea like the Internet would have trouble getting established in other countries.

Our government spends a lot on social programs, but not nearly as much as other countries say like in Europe. People here are not use to handouts and work for what they want. Productivity is a great thing. On the other hand we spend a lot more than other countries on infrastructure. You can't get an economy going good without roads, train tracks, ports, etc. Look at all the work Singapore has put into infrastructure.

So, anyway, most people in the "Land of the Free and Home of the Brave" work hard for what they have and the privilege to be viewed by jealous persons of other countries as "fat and indolent." We've also got the right to prepare for Y2K if we want to, and to discuss it and debate it because of freedom of the press. I am personally very greatful for all the people who have given me preparation ideas I hadn't thought of.

Oh, also for a country of fat lazy slobs, we are smart enough to ensure that our Army can beat anyone else's...Our Navy controls the seas, and our Air Force can control the worlds airways if we so desire. Pretty good for fat lazy slobs! Then there's our Marine Corps. Trained Pit Vipers.....American youth at its best, at the beck and call of the American public.

Sincerely, Apple (An American and loving every minute of it)

-- Apple (villarta@itsnet.com), March 10, 1999.

Mikhail,

You are right about this as a generality. We have grown soft as a people however there are those of us that were raised by depression era parents that were taught to not waste money, food, time, what have you. We were raised to gain by the sweat of our brow and hard earned knowlege, not to sponge off of another's labor. We were taught to take pride in our work. My mother's favorite quote was and still is, "he who does not work will not eat". As a result, my husband and I make good wages but we are very frugal. We wear our clothes (mend and then turn them into rags) and shoes out. We drive older cars till they drop and can't be brought back to life again and then sell them for parts. I buy durable goods that will last, function and look good for generations not the disposable crap that was designed to be in a landfill next year. We compost our kitchen and garden wastes. We recycle what we can. I never waste food. A cardinal sin when I was young. We eat leftovers.

I too have difficulty with the whiney entitlement generation. I can see this at work and in my own family. My brother lives in mid to northern Alaska in a subsistence type of lifestyle. He has three children who are helpful, sweet, polite and they are a delight to be around. My siter who lives in Colorado, has loads of money, has spoiled petulant chilren that are a pain in the ass. No major difference in genetics, just atmosphere. It's all I can do to be around them for long lengths of time. They want to be good (I can tell) but they have too many choices, too many options and limits are seldom put on their expectations or behaviour. I think it may be good for our children to see a little adversity.

But as for me I never ever forgot where I came from and I can tell that there are at least a few on this forum like me. Don't sell us all short. Anyway my 2 cents worth.

-- Ramp Rat (Aviation_R_us@noname.nocity), March 10, 1999.

Mikhail,

I respect your opinion but must point out that if you lived here and were able to see and know the people you generalize about then I believe your viewpoint would be much different. We are self- indulgent, it's true, but we have many other positive characteristics too. Independent, altuistic, creative, productive, intelligent. Just like the people in every other country.

It's easy to compare standards of living -- "welfare clients live like royalty," yes in comparison to third world, rural folks and those whose economies have crashed. But we, like most people, pride ourselves on the standard of living we have created. And there's no mistake that WE have created it. Nobody handed us anything. People on welfare, who have little and for whatever reason cannot support themselves, are very fortunate to be living in the US, that's for certain.

I have no doubt at all that if Y2K hits bad then the people of this country will be helping those in other countries as well as in their own neighborhood. That's been the tradition in the US.

--Meeko

-- meeko (meeeko@hotmail.com), March 10, 1999.

We've got both kinds here. I own a business and so I see all types of people. Indeed, many are lazy. They don't want to get ahead, they just want to get by. Their work ethic is sorely lacking, and I am somewhat disallusioned by their attitude. There are, however, those who strive to do their best and they are the 25% that are pulling the other 75% along. Me, I'm a survivor. My ancestors came to this country from Europe, faced the hardships and succeeded. Their blood runs through my veins, and I never doubt, even for a minute, that I can and will survive anything y2k can throw at me.(With the possible exception of a nuclear war (:-)

-- Eye On Y2k (bugscaresme@mellinium.com), March 10, 1999.

What a crock of shit! There are just as many fat, lazy slobs in other countries as there are here. Quit your whining.

-- whine (whine@whine.whine), March 10, 1999.

if we get rid of all the junk food and refined sugars what will the programmers eat?

-- Mark Mastrorilli (mastrorilli@hotmail.com), March 10, 1999.

What a crock of shit is right, Americans are always the bad guys when your watching television foreign and domestic. The problem is Mikael, you dont know why we have what we do, FREEDOM the Constitution do you know what that is. When you get here youll have your hand out too. I love Clinton,now give me my food stamps, and my tax exempt status right.

America is not the reason for your status its your corrupt so called leaders, stand up for yourself, and stop pointing your finger you brainwashed baby. No doubt Americans are spoiled, not unlike many other countries [I spent 11 months backpacking through many of em]

Well for those who agree with Mikael dont worry, we will be a third world country soon then everyone can feel better about themselves, hence, only the lawmakers will have food to waste.

-- moose (thk@earthlink.net), March 10, 1999.

To Whine:

If you had traveled in other countries you would know better than to say they have as many fat people as the U.S. One of the most striking aspects of foreign travel is to see entire populations of normal- sized people. We are so used to seeing an abundance of overweight people, it is surprising to realize that other countries don't have nearly as many.

-- Pearlie Sweetcake (storestuff@home.now), March 10, 1999.

There's an interesting element to Mikhail's post that nobody seems to notice. He writes:

"I love your country and would like to get in and make my dream come true, but I don't have the means to do so. At this point, I can only watch and dream, thinking, "someday..."

So our decadent standard of living, ignorance of adversity, the poor living like kings relative to the third world, our weight problems, TV addictions, and constant complaining, are all *envied* by those who don't have them. Mikhail admits straight out that he'd become a sissy himself in a New York Minute, if only he could afford to get here and wrap his lips around that nice tit.

I think that we'd face real adversity the way people do everywhere. We'd just do the best we could under the circumstances, and work to make those circumstances better.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), March 10, 1999.

Perlie

I didnt say they have as many fat people as the USA, I said many countries are also spoiled, there is a big difference. Read more carefully before attempt to debunk a statement.

-- moose (tkh@earthlink.net), March 10, 1999.

Moose:

I was answering the post of Whine (whine@whine.whine), not yours. Please read more carefully before accusing me of answering your post.

-- Pearlie Sweetcake (storestuff@home.now), March 10, 1999.

Thought I would stop here and see if anyone else responded. This is an interesting board. A variety of perspectives, which is healthy.

I was too general in my comments, and I apologize to all of the honest, hard-working people.

PLEASE, FRIENDS, LET IT BE KNOWN:

If it does not get bad and I ever do make it to America, going on public assistance would be the last thing I would ever want to do! It is a form of slavery, and I wish to control my own destiny by making an honest living. I'm trying to get technical training so I can be somewhat exceptable in terms of employment. Which is why I am here. I have a paper due, and I am doing research. As I said, I can only dream at this point in time.

I wish I had more time to read what is here. Lab is closing, so I must leave.

Best wishes to everyone here :-)

-- Mikhail (doesitmatter@eatwhatyouget.org), March 10, 1999.

One more thing. Don't shoot your television set. That would be a waste of ammunition. Throw it out the window, smash it, or dismantle it to use the parts

UTILIZE YOUR RESOURCES ACCORDINGLY! (However, I must admit that shooting the television would be more amusing)

-- Mikhail (doesitmatter@eatwhatyouget.org), March 10, 1999.

Pearlie Sorry my mistake

-- moose (tkh@earthlink.net), March 10, 1999.

PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE don't shoot our TVs! How I sopposed to live without a TV to drown out the world {SOB SNIFF} WAHHHHHHHHH! don't take away our only source of entertainment.

oh by the way how old is Mikhail. College or middle. Heck he might even be high school.

-- Teenage Beggar (cook.r@csaatl.com), March 10, 1999.

We are a people of contrasts- as I suspect the same for your country, Mikhail.

Yes, we have the overweight, lazy, TV absorbed masses. But also have the other side.

Saw today the van with a sign "Granny walking to Washington." Remember seeing a newspaper article about her but don't remember the name (or the cause). Just recall that this wonderful elderly woman (I believe she is in her 80's !) in some political cause (voter reforms?) has determined to spotlight her cause nationally by walking across America. Wow! What grit!

When I was 50 (15 years ago) I was hiking in the mountains. Well what's more like it, I was only beginning to hike, only went one mile up, 1 mile down. Just starting to get back in shape following a near fatal car accident (for me, that is- but fatal to my wife). When I was descending the mountain, I met an older woman ascending. I stopped to ask her how far she intended to go. Her answer: "Till I give out." That remark inspired me, until I got to the point where I could easily hike from an elevation of 2200' to 7400' which was a 14 mile round-trip, and do it in one day, in the summer, in 100 degree weather.

Read a few weeks ago of one of my father-in-law's friends who just competed in his upteen triathalon (sp?) and he is 72!

There are many wimps in USA, but many are not. Depends what you read and who you know.

-- PJ (Just@here.com), March 11, 1999.

Mikhail,

What country are you from? I bet your lazy ass government has taken many handouts from the United States. Don't you know that our tax dollars are at work around the world? I'm sick of you foreigners taking what's mine. Take care of yourselves for a change. I for one am sick of supporting the world. WE DESERVE TO BE LAZY FATASSES!!!

-- Hiccup (fatASS@USA.net), March 11, 1999.

I admit I was hesitant at first to respond but what the heck...might as well. We are a land of 'plenty' and I repent everytime I throw away food. Since preparing I've also trained myself to live beneath my means. But I do have a problem with the comment on jello asses made by someone else...That was his opinion I'll grant him that but there are people with disorders to obesity as well. Cut them some slack. As for the welfare comments thrown around, may I give some clarity about welfare for a moment? My situation is this...My hubby makes very good money. We have a t.v. and vcr and even have a swimming pool in our back yard. we collect 216.00 welfare...Yes we do. Now before the flames begin, I'll tell you why ..... Last year my niece was taken from CPS (child protective services) in California. Due to certain circumstances it was justified. It was done to 'protect' her. I went thru red tape for 5 months till she was placed in my care. He dad NEEDS to be on A BILLBOARD in Florida or all milk cartons... He makes over 100,000 a year, but will not support the child. My hubby's company wont allow her medical because she is not legally 'ours' and that matter is pending in California. In light of these True Facts, I would ask that no sympathy be given, we are happy to of gotten this child here. She is doing well. Going to school, and very content. I guess what I am saying is this....true, some do rip off the system, but lets not generalize All. The little bit helps to buy her clothes and so forth. WE dont abuse the money. The bigger question is this "Why has California NOT pursued her 100,000 a year dad for child support?" I dont know, but I keep asking, he should pay not us taxpayers. But here is a prime example of so called welfare reform.........WHO IS GONNA REFORM THE DEADBEAT DADS??????

-- consumer (private@aol.com), March 11, 1999.

Has anyone besides me noticed that Mikhail speaks and spells English quite well? I seriously doubt that he is from any other country that is hurting. Where did he get his education?

-- none (none@none.none), March 11, 1999.

Good point, none. The English is very fluent and formal. No slang, either. Some foreigners speak English very well, though...

I have some Slovac in-laws, and it's amazing how they can revert to Slovac/English at the drop of a hat. I also dealt with Japanese business people, and I found their English to be immaculate, but studied, and spoken slowly.

Since there's no indication of inflection and speed, it's difficult to determine if this person's nationality.

I'm also interested in this person's age...he mentioned something about "the lab closing". It would crack me up if it was just a kid that posted this. This person could just be messing with us, throwing a red herring to distract us from the REAL issues. Another interesting conspiracy theory: could be a government troll trying to stir things up a bit?

-- Tim (dazed@confused.com), March 11, 1999.

Don't trust foreigners!!!

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.com), March 11, 1999.

Faze, sorry I used your bogus email address. Didn't feel like handling flames today. My private reply to you bounced back.

-- Faze the Nation (dazed@confused.com), March 11, 1999.

Okay, dude. You've made your point about the identity thing, so let's move on, LOL.

-- Faze the Nation (dazed@confused.com), March 11, 1999.

Anybody who advocates preparation, as Mikhail does, can be from Atlantis, for all I care - and trolls don't generally push preparation. Mikhail's a friend, wherever he lives.

-- Lisa (lisa@work.today), March 11, 1999.

Mikhail, who speaks digital English well,

That aside, believe it or not, our daily lives are tested on many little levels. They are simply different than the ones people in other countries are tested on. We just havent been challenged on the big ones, as a country, since WWII.

Try to remember that, for the most part, those who went through the Great Depression (even WWII), had never gone through that experience before, either. Many pulled through, some didnt. They learned on- the-job. Its part of our heritage and work ethic.

Americans may gripe and grump, but many often stop, and feel gratitude for what we have and more importantly, for what we have the opportunity to create. Our forefathers and mothers, almost all immigrants, from other parts of the world, fought hard to gift us with that right.

Yes, weve become complacent. So did Russia at its height, earlier this century. We each paid prices in different ways.

So now, for the first time, GLOBALLY, we face a common Y2K challenge, this year. (Others coming up in the next several years). Some may feel the fall more than others, depending upon individual circumstances, and getting ready. But in a pinch, Id rather be here, than where you say you are. Because I know a good portion of the people here, whatever their age, will pull together in adversity. You can bank on it.

Also, we dont give up our freedoms lightly, at least, when we finally recognize whats happening. Thats NOT the case around the globe. How many give up on creating their lives, and allow others to dictate to them. Too many. Some of the best parts of our short traditions could provide international lessons in freedom, desperately needed. Perhaps, for all our faults, we have something of value to offer. We need to remember what that is.

Now, due to Y2K, the sleeping giant stirs. Maybe well all wake up because of it.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), March 11, 1999.