I ran across this interesting "employment opportunity" while reading today's issue of the St. Paul Pioneer Press. This strikes me as a significant indicator that "Something Wicked This Way Comes". It's my understanding from research (and a relative who is a 30 year railroad veteran) that "switchmen" were eliminated years ago. Is Union Pacific developing "contingency" plans? Has anyone else seen an ad like this? Any comments?

Thanks everyone--I value your opinions!

UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD

TRAINPERSON

$25,000+/year

Union Pacific Railroad, a multi-billion dollar industry leader, has FULL-TIME openings for TRAINPERSONS based out of St. Paul, MN.

These positions involve the switching & moving of freight trains. WORK IS OUTSIDE REGARDLESS OF WEATHER AND IS PHYSICALLY STRENUOUS. Employees work ON-CALL, are required to work any time, day or night, including weekends. Regular travel that may extend for several days at a time is required. Work schedules are unpredictable. **************

-- Scarlett (ohara@tara.net), March 05, 1999

Answers

If this ad is real, you are right on the money. There are no manual switches on the rails anymore. In the event of a failure, they will have to be pryed into place using long metal bars and BIG men. ~ Buy more TP!

-- Scotty (BLehman202@aol.com), March 05, 1999.

wow Scarlett!!!

Do you have a hard copy of this? If so, can you fax it to me? This HAS to be exactly what it sounds like... manual switching. Amazing and scary. I could use the fax to prove the point regarding disruptions to my DGI family.

darn... I need some good news.

Mike ===========================================================

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), March 05, 1999.

I have been trying to confirm this at both Pioneerplanet (Saint paul Pioneer Press)
and Startribune (Minneapolis Star-Tribune) via searching the classifieds. No luck on my search. I have friends in the Twin Cities, and they are going to see if they can confirm it from the print edition. If it's true, it's pretty incredible, if it's not..........

-- Online2Much (ready_for_y2k@mindspring.com), March 05, 1999.

I noticed in the recent Senate Report on the Year 2000 problem that in the Transportation section under Y2K Issues in Other Transportation Areas -- Railroads it states:

"In earlier testimony before the Senate Banking Committee, it was reported that virtually none of the existing railroad switches are manually switchable. The witness contended that the railroad switches are fully automated and controlled by embedded chips, which are likely to pose substantial Y2K problems. The threat this could pose to economic stability in the U.S. is disconcerting. However, it is the purpose of this report to identify and debunk myths like that of the automated railroad switches with embedded chips. As the Committee has learned, concerns about automated railroad switches and signaling systems appear to be ill founded. The Committee staff heard from multiple sources that essentially all automated switches have manual overrides (no source could identify one which didn't). Concerning signaling and warning systems, there didn't appear to be any date-dependent functions that would interfere with their safe operations. These devices are event driven, not date or time dependent. Even in the unlikely event of a Y2K-related failure in this equipment (e.g., a power outage), work-around procedures are in place for continued safe operation of the railroad, although with diminished capacity."

The above ad (if verifiable) might tie in with the fact that part of the railroads contingency plans are to employee trainpersons now and train them to work the switches, etc. as part of the work-around procedure mentioned in the above statement from the recent Senate Report.

I would say that "diminished capacity" is putting it mildly.

-- Anon (anon@home.com), March 05, 1999.

My brother recently began work at CSX in a similar position. I asked if he was a switchman, he said no, a conductor. I said who's the guy with the lantern and the radio? Used to be called switchmen, now conductors. Switching manually does still occur in private yards (like the one on my plant). I'll ask him how much manual switching is involved in day to day operations. In town, I would venture quite a bit. Most industries require rail operations. Just doesn't seem likely they're all automated.

-- margie mason (mar3mike@aol.com), March 05, 1999.

My husband and I own a railroad business. We install and maintain tracks, as well as switches, for spur tracks for private industries. We only work in our home state, so can not speak for other areas, but we have found only manually thrown switches to be used on private industry tracks. Of course getting the trains out of the plants is not where the problem will be when trying to move trains. Problems will be on main line tracks.

Main line switches can be thrown manually but it is not a job to be taken lightly, i.e. it would be bery strenuous work. I don't think that any of our crew would take on this job opportunity for 25+ unless the plus would be a BIG plus, IMOO.

Hope you folks don't mind a "lurker" getting into this subject...it's just one that I know a little something about.

I've been a GI for quite sometime and have gleamed some pretty good insite into this "bump in the road" probably really a "sink hole" situation.

Hear train whistle? Just me lurking..again.

-- keeps a rolling (trains@theswitch.com), March 05, 1999.

Keeps a rolling,

You aren't an old Indiana resident gone south to Florida are you?

Had a neigbor in the same business awhile back.

-- Moore Dinty moore (not@thistime.com), March 05, 1999.

Online--

Sad to say, this ad is as real as they come. That's why I posted it here--I couldn't believe what I was reading.

Tell your friends to check the St. Paul Pioneer Press, March 5, Sec. 8F, third column in, first ad.

Take care.

-- Scarlett (ohara@tara.net), March 05, 1999.

Thanks everyone for your comments. I thought this type of ad was unusual--to say the least. And in light of Y2k, I find it pretty darn scary...did you notice how the ad talks about the employee being gone for DAYS at a time?

Mike--I emailed you re: faxing a hard copy of this. No problem. :>)

-- Scarlett (ohara@tara.net), March 05, 1999.

I was thinking about the work schedules being unpredictable and that they may extend for several days at a time...

Over the last two days I've had to wait for a train 3 times. Twice yesterday. As I live in Southern California this is actually a very, very rare event. One thing I noticed as I sat waiting for one train (listening to my 3 year old get antsy in the carseat) is that within this very small area there are many, many intersections where a gate must be lowered to stop traffic. I don't think the gates would require someone to sit and wait and manually operate the gate but the thought that people would have to wait for or ride the train and manually switch every time it was necessary really struck me. I can only imagine how incredibly slow this process would be and how dangerous it might be as well.

How many coal deliveries every day does the average power production facility require?

Mike ======================================================

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), March 06, 1999.

Yes, the add can be found with a search. They're using frames and it won't open into a linkable window. Here's the full text:

RAILROAD
UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD
.
TRAINPERSON
.
$25,000+/YEAR
EXCELLENT COMPANY
BENEFITS
Including Health Dental)
UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD, a
multi-billion dollar industry leader, has
FULL-TIME openings for
TRAINPERSONS based out of St. Paul,
MN
.
Qualified applicants must possess any of the
following: 2 years work experience since
high school, an Associate's Degree, a
Railroad Associate's Degree, or 4 year
college degree. All applicants must
complete and pass paper pencil examination
which includes drug testing. These positions
involve the switching moving of freight
trains. WORK IS OUTSIDE
REGARDLESS OF WEATHER AND IS
PHYSICALLY STRENUOUS. Employees
work ON-CALL, are required to work any
time, day or night, including weekends.
Regular travel that may extend for several
days at a time is required. Work schedules
are unpredictable. We're Number One
because of people like you. Join a great
tradition and develop eligibility for other
opportunities within our system.
Trainpersons typically advance to
Conductor and can qualify as Locomotive
Engineer. For consideration, please apply in
person between 9am and 4pm Monday
through Friday at:
Minnesota Department
of Economic Security
2455 West University Avenue
St. Paul, MN
APPLICATION DEADLINE is noon on
Tuesday, March 9, 1999 or until order is
filled. Apply early for priority consideration.
.
GET ON TRACK AND BENEFIT WITH
AN INDUSTRY LEADER!
Equal Opportunity Employer


-- Nathan (nospam@all.com), March 06, 1999.

Thanks Nathan. :>)

-- Scarlett (ohara@tara.net), March 06, 1999.

The good news in this is they are creating their "contingency plan." It would be scarier to know they weren't going to hire folks.

-My two cents

-- Other Lisa (LisaWard2@aol.com), March 06, 1999.

Moore Dinty moore:

Was born, bred, wed, re-wed and probably end up dead right here in Georgia.

-- keeps a rolling (trains@switch.com), March 06, 1999.

$25k+...WOW...on the road days at a time....a chance to work in life-threatening weather...dangerous occupation...what deal!!!
Whataburger in N. Austin only starts hamburger technicians at $9.50/hr. x 2080 hrs./yr. = $19760 yr.

Let's all move to Minnesota!!

-- Charles R. (chuck_roast@trans.net), March 06, 1999.

I grew up in St. Paul. Minnesota winters can be severe. More than once I walked the 4 blocks to my grade school at 30 deg. (F.) below zero. Earmuffs helped a lot. I had to keep a mitten over my nose to avoid frostbite. After school we'd play in the snow. Kids are tough.

So there'll be guys (and gals?) standing out in the boonies on the main line waiting for somebody to tell them when to throw a switch to let an westbound train of empties move onto a siding to let an eastbound train of coal pass. OK. No problem when the weather's nice.

In a blizzard with wind chill at -60 deg. it'll be another story. Full grown cattle freeze to death in these storms.

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), March 06, 1999.

Mike

According to WorldNetDaily - Monday, 11 January, Article titled Bad news on power grid, "It takes a mile-long train per day to feed a coal fired power plant". Article also says, "Reports used by the planners at FEMA indicate that the train system will be shut down by the Y2K bug, and power plants will not be able to stockpile enough coal to keep going while the problem is fixed".

-- Valkyrie (anon@please.net), March 06, 1999.

Scarlett, thanks for bringing this to our attention.

Everyone else thanks for the answers.

Anon, thanks for highlighting that part of the Senate Report. I had only quickly skimmed through it; planning on getting into it more over this weekend. I have just spent some of this morning reading the 'Vanity Fair' article -- very well written as some of the regulars have already pointed out. I have also been wading my way through the Senate Report.

One thing I noticed in the above that Anon highlighted to was also where it says there didn't appear to be any date-dependent functions that would interfere with the safe operations of signaling and warning systems. These devices are event driven, not date or time dependent.

I was under the impression that up and down the east coast the tracking of many trains was undertaken at a centralised computer operations center based in Florida. Sometime ago in our area we had a horrendous head-on collision involving two trains and signaling error was suspected to be the cause. I don't know what the investigation showed as to the actual cause. However, what I was wondering is does anyone know whether or not signaling is timed according to some sort of scheduling or not. Can anyone give me more of an idea how trains are scheduled and signaling tracked accordingly. It seems strange to me that no timing would be involved in the process. Anyhow I am completely train operations illiterate and would appreciate any insight that anyone may have.

PS. I have been reading through the Report and notice quite a few contradictory statements being made. Has anyone else noticed this?

-- Suburb (an@metroarea.com), March 06, 1999.

Scarlett and all you posters!

I printed out this entire thread. I think this is a great example of why the net is so scary to the "powers that be". This was posted and checked out (verified) and it has real value in determining the y2k status of the railroad. kudo's to you all.

I live in an area in the south and we import 60% of our coal by rail from up north. This was very sobering to me.

-- Linda (Imimpressed@hottopic.com), March 06, 1999.

Thanks Linda (and everyone - again :>))

I agree. A couple of months ago a railroad "expert" posted a fairly detailed railroad "point of view" on the Comp 2000 newsgroup. When I saw this ad, the implications hit hard. It's good to know they're developing contingency plans--but ominous that a multi-billion dollar "leader" in the railroad industry has now advertised its *need* for a backup plan.

"It takes a mile-long train per day to feed a coal fired power plant". Article also says, "Reports used by the planners at FEMA indicate that the train system will be shut down by the Y2K bug, and power plants will not be able to stockpile enough coal to keep going while the problem is fixed". (Worth the cut & paste, Valkyrie) :>)

A THREE WEEK POWER OUTAGE?? Yeah, right....

-- Scarlett (ohara@tara.net), March 06, 1999.

A railroad advertising for train people? What will they think up next? And the work will involve switching and moving freight trains? Wow, that sounds really different from what they do now. This is as shocking as Microsoft advertising for programmers! A sure sign that the world is falling apart.

Does anyone here know if Union Pacific has ever hired anyone in the past, or is this something new?

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), March 06, 1999.

Flint,

No, UP has never hired anyone before. It's all completely new. The founding computers got together and thought it would nake 'good business sense' to have some $25,000 humans standing around in the boondocks with crowbars in the middle of winter.

We find it interesting, too.

-- Nathan (nospam@all.com), March 06, 1999.

Flint--

Your last name wouldn't happen to be "Simpson", would it? :>) St. Paul is major railroad territory and even here, a "TRAINPERSON" ad is surprising--to say the least.

-- Scarlett (ohara@tara.net), March 06, 1999.

scarlett:

You may be right. Perhaps a local phone call to UP would clarify things for us a great deal. Just respond to the ad and ask some questions. Why speculate based on the preceived rarity of specific want ads, when you can get the story directly? If they really are gearing up for manual switching instead of just filling a local vacancy, this would be good to know.

But I just can't bring myself to a state of high anxiety based on what ads appear or don't appear and what my uninformed guesses about these things might mean.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), March 06, 1999.

Flint--

I may call them, and if I do, I'll be sure to ask if they're "gearing up" for Y2k. :>) Gosh, I wonder if they'll be honest with me.... :>)

Seriously, though, I'm nowhere near a state of "high anxiety"--if I were, I'd be SCREAMING AT YOU! And I'm not....:>) Just smilin' instead.

I posted this ad because I felt it was an indicator--no more, no less. To me it indicates that a multi-billion dollar, computer run "industry leader" has decided it needs to turn the clock back about thirty years or so....They are now into "contingency plans". That ought to make anyone think a bit.

I'll let you know if I call.... :>)

-- Scarlett (ohara@tara.net), March 07, 1999.

Thanks, scarlett. It would also be interesting to know if ads like this have been showing up elsewhere. One ad isn't much, but a few hundred in major cities would start being more meaningful.

I checked here, but didn't see any ads that seemed unusual. In fact, I've been watching for trends in the ads that might be suggestive, but haven't seen any. This in itself may be indicative of something, but I'm not sure quite what.

I know that sometimes when you respond, some bored voice tells you to come down and fill out a form, and maybe they'll get back to you. Hard to learn much that way. And sometimes, you get a more detailed job description and can ask some leading questions.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), March 07, 1999.

I'm hoping that someone in the St Paul area will give Union Pacific a call. Like to know how many opening there are, and if they are running this ad in any othere cities. We need more information but this waves a red flag.

-- thinkIcan (thinkIcan@make.it), March 08, 1999.