More problems than we would have hadgreenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread
Have you ever thought about the fact that you, just like the weatheman predicting a snow storm, have just compounded whatever problem may occur. Thanks to people like you, most of us won't be able to buy a loaf of bread, a quart of milk, or a roll of toilet paper. I think if you really cared about the problem (?), you would have kept publicly quiet and worked with powers that be to solve the problem (?) What do you think?
-- Ron Brook (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 04, 1999
I think you probably think that weathermen CAUSE snowstorms.
By the way, have you paid any insurance premiums lately???
-- nobody (email@example.com), March 04, 1999.
Yes, there's nothing I hate worse than the weather folks telling us about approaching storms. It always seems to make them worse than tey would have otherwise been.
And another thing, I'm beginning to suspect that those needless civil defense sirens are actually causing tornados...
-- Arnie Rimmer (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 04, 1999.
I was going to launch into a lengthy discourse about logic (or its absence), but Nobody's answer does it much more succinctly.
-- Vic (Roadrunner@compliant.com), March 04, 1999.
You heard Senator Dodd: do NOT pay attention to us internet whackos! Now git! Before you GI!
-- Lisa (git@go!.gone!), March 04, 1999.
Surely that was Dieter in disquise!! Best laff I have had in a week. Sometimes trolls are ok and have a place. Jeessshh!!
Got toad stools??
-- Taz (email@example.com), March 04, 1999.
Well Ron, I think that thanks to people like us, many others will be prepared for the storm of the century about to hit us. I think people like us may save some lives next yesr. Like Vic, I was going to get into a long post after reading your "comments" but think it would be a waste of time. You do what you want. I'm going to try and help people. And by the way, many of us here are working very hard to solve this problem. Have a nice day, and a happy new year.
-- Sysman (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 04, 1999.
-- Tricia the Canuck (email@example.com), March 04, 1999.
-- Lewis (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 04, 1999.
Actually the fallacy in original question is not a false cause fallacy, it's one of 'false analogy'. Do weathermen predicting storms cause panic in predicting snow storms, and does is this panic analogy over-extended into Y2K panic? It's also 'begging the question', for it assumes facts not in evidence, and if you look hard enough, it is 'non sequitur', for it draws a conclusion not logically connected with a shaky premise.
Just me in my sheet saying: "neener, neener!"
-- Donna Barthuley (email@example.com), March 04, 1999.
1) The 'powers that be' have no interest in our assistance. In fact, they really don't seem to care what we do one way or another.
2) I have seen no shortages of milk, bread, or toilet paper. Buy as much as you wish with my blessings.
What ARE you talking about?
-- Art Welling (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 04, 1999.
Persistence is the mother of frustration.Millenium Bugs.
-- Lewis (email@example.com), March 04, 1999.
We think, therefore, we will be.
-- Puddintame (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 04, 1999.
Actually, he did us a favor. All this time everyone's been posting preparedness information, nobody mentioned stocking up on quarts of milk and loaves of bread! How could we have missed that? Well, off to Sam's for me, time to buy 250 of each!
-- Online2Much (email@example.com), March 04, 1999.
LOL! okay everybody - let's all go out and each order 10 more cases of toilet paper! Hey! Maybe we could corner the market - now THAT would be a problem for some folks wouldn't it?? ROFL!!!
-- Arlin H. Adams (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 04, 1999.
The following sounds like a situation a prudent person would prepare for...
"Y2K may spark unrest, economic pain - US Senate"
Y2K may spark unrest, economic pain -US Senate
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The year 2000 computer bug may set off civil unrest in poor countries, undermine economic growth in Asia, Latin America and Africa, and disrupt global trade in oil and other commodities, a Senate panel said Tuesday.
While there was a low probability of an accidental nuclear weapons launch, the committee said missile systems and other high-tech weapons in other countries could malfunction. The Senate was also warned that terrorists might strike against U.S. targets next Jan. 1 to take advantage of weakened security.
``I have a nightmare of CNN cameras in villages or cities where there is no power, no telecommunications, the banking system is broken down, widespread rioting,'' said Utah Republican Sen. Robert Bennett, chairman of the Senate's Special Committee on the computer problem.
For the United States, Y2K disruptions should be manageable, the Senate panel concluded.
``The committee has no data to suggest that the United States will experience nationwide social or economic collapse, but the committee believes that some disruptions will occur, and that in some cases Y2K disruptions may be significant.''
Bennett said the U.S. military might experience some minor computer glitches, ``but its mission-critical, war-fighting capability will not be compromised.'' U.S. intelligence services would also be ready in time.
The U.S. health care industry may be the least prepared, according to the panel, which said the nation's Medicare system was in ``serious trouble''.
The committee complained that U.S. airports started preparations too late, and warned that shipments of goods by sea could be disrupted because the maritime industry was running behind. But it said a prolonged nationwide blackout was unlikely, although local and regional outages were possible.
In case vital services were temporarily cut off, the committee said Americans should stock up on bottled water, canned goods and other essentials, as they might to prepare for a winter storm lasting two to three days. People should also keep copies of their financial records in case banks run into unforeseen problems.
The committee said the most serious computer problems were likely to strike other countries next Jan. 1, because many of them started preparing too late or not at all.
The report singled out Japan, Mexico, China, Germany and Taiwan for falling nine months to two years behind schedule in preparing for the year 2000 bug. The committee also said that major oil producers Venezuela and Saudi Arabia were 12 to 18 months behind schedule.
``Disruption of flights and global trade between some areas and countries may occur,'' the committee said.
In a closed-door briefing for senators, Bennett outlined the Y2K threat to national security.
``There is a low to medium probability of terrorist exploitation of Y2K. However, we must remain vigilant in case some of our security systems malfunction,'' Bennett said afterwords.
But he added: ``There is a medium probability of economic disruptions that will lead to civil unrest in certain sectors of the world, particularly where their economies are already fragile or there is political uncertainty.''
He told senators there was a ``high probability'' that widespread computer glitches would compound economic problems in Latin America, Africa and Asia.
``In some countries it will be more serious than others,'' Bennett said. ``The unknowable question is what will be the impact on the United States.''
-- Kevin (email@example.com), March 04, 1999.
So, Online2much, guess we should throw out all of our powdered and canned milk and flour? Ron must have "evidence" that the power is staying on and I'll get to use my frig afterall! Yippee! Ron, the "powers that be" want us to buy lots and lots of stuff to stimulate the economy, but apparently they (you) want to dictate exactly what it is that we buy. There are already plenty of indications that Y2K preps are leading to increased production - if everyone had waited until late fall to stock up, there would be less available in total. BTW, you can have my allotment of bread and fresh milk - I don't plan to waste my money on perishables. And as far as your weather analogy, I have been very happy with the missed storms this winter - it's shoveling 6 inches of partly cloudy that annoys me. And that's exactly the reason I'm preparing for Y2K.
-- Brooks (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 04, 1999.
"Getting Ready for Y2K"
-- Kevin (email@example.com), March 04, 1999.
Ron: Since you won't have any food to eat, no use in worrying about TP....hmmmmmmm ever thought about that? If you don't eat you won't shit! Therefore don't worry about it!
-- bardou (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 04, 1999.
I think I will babble on whenever I feel like it. I think I will go to the store tomorrow and buy more rice and beans before anyone else gets there. I think I have the problem under control, and I think those in charge are the ones you should be addressing not us!
-- BeanoBaby (BeanoBaby@fart.com), March 04, 1999.
Thanks to ME???? Hell I haven't "Bought" a loaf of bread for months. I use my bread machine.
Besides, if I have all of what I need by April or May, when you get around to looking for it, I will NOT have to buy it so I ain't part of YOUR problem. YOUR problem will be the other n million people who believed the spin from Disneyland on the Potomac.
-- Chuck, night driver (email@example.com), March 05, 1999.
Sounds to me like you might be exactly what you claim not to be - paranoid that is. If you want to have bread, milk and toilet paper I suggest you get busy preparing for it. We already have what it takes to make bread, a substitute for milk and plenty of toilet paper. It isn't us who will keep you from being able to buy it when you want it. It will be all the other people just like you who wait until TSHTF. Be interesting to see who you point the finger of blame at then. Just remember those four fingers that will be pointing back at you.
-- ticked off (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 05, 1999.
Mr. Brooks will be using his fingers to wipe his butt, and no water to wash them with......got TP?
-- Ick!! (Ick@Ick.com), March 05, 1999.
you write, " I think if you really cared about the problem (?), you would have kept publicly quiet and worked with powers that be to solve the problem (?)"
What do you recommend in this regard? What sort of work "with powers that be" should we be doing?
Not everyone here has the skills needed for remediation work in software applications, or the technical expertise needed to locate, test and/or replace critical components of embedded systems. And I imagine almost everyone here has a day job and needs the income to maintain access to food and shelter.
These are awkward details, but it's hard to get around them.
Again, what do you recommend?
-- Tom Carey (email@example.com), March 05, 1999.