Help! Caught between a big rock and a hard spot.greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread
This is a difficult post for me to write, but I know many of you are supportive when confronted with a situation like this.
My husband is either a DWGI or DGI. I suspect the former. Eternal optimist, a things wont get that bad, type of thinker when it comes to Y2K. I used to show him articles. I dont bother anymore. He knows, however, that I WILL follow the Red Cross recommendations, come heck or high water.
I think I need to do more than that--particularly after speaking with a state senators office (who listed you may choose to buy a generator, among the offices recommendations for preparing for Y2K), my Congresswomans office, my local Red Cross, my local water utility, etc.,--- but this will NOT happen until some type of light-bulb goes off in his head. He just doesnt believe it will be that bad. Even if its bad, he says, What are we going to lose but creature comforts? Heck, I can just go p--- in the woods behind our house! (I should mention he grew up in a country without many creature comforts.) Our small daughter, however, is quite used to them.
Hes read the local newspapers, which are downplaying the potential impact. Hes not concerned. So here I am: I cant prepare further without financial assistance from him, and I really dont know how to convince him otherwise. He believes what he reads in the paper.
After reading Vics observations in the Media Manipulation thread,
Deborahs poignant response to it, along with Spideys clip from todays Worldnetdaily,
More on plans for martial law http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000ZF8
I am more depressed than ever. If I showed my husband all of the articles from WorldnetDaily --he would probably dismiss the information as coming from the lunatic fringe.
I truly feel caught between a rock and a hard spot.
Anyone have any ideas how to move a big rock?
Thanks in advance.
-- FM (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 04, 1999
Baby steps. By all means, do not give him any martial law talk. Instead, try to approach him from an optimist point of view, since that's where he's coming from. Tell him maybe there's no problem but given that no one really knows the outcome it would be wise to make sure your family is prepared. Explain to him that the Senate and other respectable sources think that at the very least there is a great amount of uncertainty about the rollover, and that the preparations you want to make will not go to waste if his optimism proves true (e.g. extra food, water, firewood, etc). Tell him spending a few bucks now on these things is like buying insurance and getting all the premiums back if no claims are made. After all, even an optimist buys health insurance to cover uncertain future events.
If he absolutely won't support any further short-term preps, you might want to focus on getting your household in a defensive stance financially for rough economic times (e.g. eliminate/reduce debt, sell that Gucci stock, etc).
-- Codejockey (email@example.com), March 04, 1999.
Yes, that's between a rock and a hard spot, alright.
You'll need a lot of patience, and you'll need to be cagey, because you have two jobs -- prepare, for your family's sake, and convince your hubby.
You really have my sympathy, FM. I know that there are threads on information you can pass out to a DGWI/DGI, so I'd guess that you are doing that. I suspect that the Red Cross, FEMA, and now the California Emergency Management Office sites would be good ones to visit to be able to show him non-scary stuff that recommends beginning to prepare.
You may want to try to stock a little away each week, especially if you do the grocery shopping. At least that'll let you put back some food. You can use empty 2 liter pop bottles to store water. That gives you a head start on two things.
FM, if things get as bad as they might, very few of us will be able to keep our creature comforts, so you might have to lower your sights a little. Your daughter will adapt readily. Heck I can remember using a cold one-holer in the Nebraska sand hills as a boy, getting adjusted to what my grandpa called "city slicker ways," and then spending over a year in Korea, with only self-made facilities. We do adjust. Concentrate on food, water, shelter, and make plans for emergency sanitation [5 gallon buckets filled with trash bags, carry the bags out and bury them -- deep]. If this seems crude, consider a camping toilet.
There are ways. You can do it. Just don't let them get you down.
-- De (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 04, 1999.
About a month ago, my husband DWGI and thought I was overreacting when I started ordering sterno, candles, water barrels,etc. Now a month later he asks me how I'm going to sterilize the stored water. He still doesn't want to talk about it, but I bring it up periodically anyway. Last night I told him that I had read part of the Senate report and it didn't jive with the statements on TV. He appeared alarmed, but said nothing. I'm taking this as a good sign that, at least, he is taking it seriously.
It's hard for some people to accept the fact that they have no control over this situation and that, in fact, the Y2K problem will likely take control over their lives.
So, if I were you, and I was like you about a month ago, I'd keep at it, slowly and steadily. Surely, he wouldn't object to storing a little more food and water this week, right? And next week maybe lay in some sterno. In two weeks maybe a water barrel.
I wouldn't try to lay it all on him at once. He can't handle it now.
Good luck. Let us know how you're doing. --Meeko
-- meeko (email@example.com), March 04, 1999.
FM: The thread below is several months old. It is where the terms "Dont wanna get its (DWGIs)" and "Forget Its (FIs)" originated. In addition to what I hope you will see as some clarifying information regarding these categories of Y2K awareness, there is also a message of both hope and patience which you may find to be of some help. Hang in there and Good luck to you, Rob.
-- Rob Michaels (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 04, 1999.
"poignant response" (blush)
FM my heart goes out to you. For some unknown reason my instinct is to give you this advice. Write him a letter. It does not need to be a fact filled letter designed to convince him of TEOTWAWKI. It should cover how you are feeling, explain the process you went through carefully weighing evidence to arrive at your conclusions. Tell him how it makes you feel when he doesn't take your daughter's needs into consideration. (I don't mean for this to be a hostile confrontational letter) Be honest and as gentle as possible. Express your love for him, if he has always been a good provider/Daddy for his daughter tell him (in other words compliment him & express appreciation for the things he is doing well). Clearly express what you wish he was doing to support you and your daughter. I don't know the intimate details of your heart or relationship so the rest is up to you, but the following formula has always worked for me in the past:
It makes me feel____________________
And in the future I would appreciate it if you would_______________
A letter is always great because you are almost guaranteed having all of your thoughts heard without the conversational iterruptions which could lead things off track.
If you feel confident you can give him this letter without him trying to use it against you, you can leave it in his briefcase/lunchbox or some such place where he will have time to read and digest it before discussing it.
If you are not so confident, over a nice dinner or some such thing you can read him the letter and ask him to please save his response(s) until you are finished. Burn the letter.
At times in the past when dealing with an ultra sensitive issue that never seemed to get constructively resolved (i.e. caused fights) letters have been a huge success in my marriage.
P.S. Seriously consider (as I'm sure you have) what things you consider an ABSOLUTE necessity. Is a generator? I don't know your situation, but I wouldn't push too hard over anything that isn't, and don't budge on anything that is.
Hang in there you'll make it, and I'm sure many others here will offer their support as well!!
-- Deborah (email@example.com), March 04, 1999.
You never know all the thoughts a person has. My hubby has been working on this guy at work, who keeps spouting every DGI/DWGI phrase in the book.
Yesterday, this man confided to my hubby that he has started preps. Seeds take time & water to grow.
-- Deborah (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 04, 1999.
FM, I really feel for you. I used to think that everything I read in the papers and heard on the news was the gospel truth. After all, the media wouldn't try to decieve us, right? Experience has taught me different! The following comes from the web site of Devvy Kidd
Lots of GOOD reading if you haven't ever been there:
In 1953, John Swinton, the former Chief of Staff of the NY Times, considered the "Dean" of his profession by his peers, gave a toast before the NY Press Club. The following are his exact words:
"There is no such thing, at this date of the world's history in America, as an independent press. You know it and I know it. There is not one of you who dares to write your honest opinions, and if you did, you know beforehand that it would never appear in print.
I am paid weekly for keeping my honest opinions out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for similar things, and any of you who would be so foolish as to write honest opinions would be out on the streets looking for another job.
If I allowed my honest opinions to appear in one issue of my paper, before twenty-four hours, my occupation would be gone. The business of journalists is to destroy truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of mammon, and to sell out his country and his race for his daily bread.
You know it and I know it and what folly is this toasting an independent press? We are the tools and vassals for rich men behind the scenes.
We are the jumping jacks, they pull the strings and we dance. Our talents, our possibilities and our lives are all the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."
---------- Keep working on him. Try to find friends who will help you. Linda
-- Linda (email@example.com), March 04, 1999.
Many times survival knowledge is more valuable than survival preparations. A person that has survival knowledge and no supplies is usually way ahead of the game than a person with supplies and no knowledge.
Many of the files at my website are for surviving on a low budget. http://home.earthlink.nt/~kenseger I'ld like to point out that your first concerns should be avoiding death. So what can kill you the quickest?
First is lack of oxygen, dead in several minutes. This is one item that is not a Y2K problem unless you are in space, under the sea, or require bottled 02 to live.
Second quickest is hypo or hyperthermia, dead in several hours. If you have OISM's Robinson's curriculum (26 CD's with hundreds of books, a complete K-12, not including math, about $200 from http://www.oism.org ) you have a copy of The Friendly Artic which will help you stay warm. You'ld also have Cresson Kearney's Nuclear War Survival Skills on those CDs. That book is based on decades of govt. research on how to survive a nuclear war with common household items, ie. waste handling, water, cooking, heat, light, etc. Every parent should have Robinson's curriculum, it has saved me trips to the library. Yes it is $200, but it's for your kid's education, not Y2k, RIGHT?
Third quickest is lack of water, dead in several days. If you have my files, NWSS, and about $15 you can sterilize about 350,000 gallons or so. That should be enough even for Gary North.
Fourth is food, dead in several weeks. Again, my files, NWSS, and knowing what the Morman 4 and Cornell Bread means will get you through without much expense just fine.
Now about that generator, unless it is needed to obtain water or to keep you alive, it is a luxury good. If you need electricity to keep you warm and cook your food, you need to learn how to do those in another manner. Besides you already own a generator, maybe two. Fancy ones too, even though they only put out 600-1200 watts at 12VDC, self propelled, haul their own fuel supplies. Just add one deep cycle battery and an inverter for luxury use. You can buy Sta-Bil at Walmart. Now if you need something like 2,000 watts to get water, then you WILL have to spend money on a bigger battery and inverter, or perhaps some neighbors can go together on a genset if everybody has deep wells? You aren't going to be using it more than an hour a day, the rest of the time it's just sitting there.
Here's a thought on lighting. When it gets dark, go to bed. When it get bright, wake up. Don't confuse survival with luxury. Many people are probably going to die trying to stay luxureous.
Your first line of defense is always knowledge, you've got over 9 months to become an expert survivalist, that's plenty of time if you keep thinking to yourself, "I'm learning this boring stuff for the sake of my daughter."
You'll do fine, let me know if I can help.
-- Ken Seger (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 04, 1999.
Thanks to all of you for your sincere and thoughtful answers. You've helped. Give yourself a "good deed for the day" pat on the pack now--all at once--pat, pat, pat!'
Seriously, I really appreciate the advice. I was feeling very down this morning and you've given me something to mull over.
One last item--Ken--I couldn't link to your site. Are you sure the link is correct? Thanks again.
-- FM (email@example.com), March 04, 1999.
Whoops--that should have been "back" not "pack." Actually though--could mean the same thing. Take care.
-- FM (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 04, 1999.
Not so many days ago, I learned some interesting things about my wife (of 25 years). First, I learned that when i came to her in march a year ago, she thought I was way more than a few pickles shy a barrel. She did a fluff off "yes dear" which I misinterpreted as acceptance of the gravity. Somewhere in the next 8-10 months she started to take the problem seriously. I mean we have been doing the jerky, and teh shopping, and teh equipment preps all along but somewhere a couple months ago, she became a furious GI, and I'm kinda left in the dust.
She surprised me at the last Y2K Expo here in Cleveburgh by looking at me and asking if it wasn't time to go down to the produce terminal and start buying our about to be dried in true bulk. talk about readjusting teh comfort box I live in!!!! Someday I will write a book and title it "Do you really think you can scare her??"
Anyway, as I started this out, a few days ago I found out that she hadn't agreed all this time, after all!! FRATZ!! I then asked why and when she had changed her mind. Since she and I have an agrement that neither one of us will ever ask a question that we can't handle the answer to, regardless*, she answered me. Her answer was HIGHLY instructive "water eventually wears down a stone" unquote. My point in this ramble (and I do have one) is that "Water eventually wears down a stone" even the strong stones, and even the gentle water.
Myy prayers go out to you in your distress. Perhaps you might try, if your personal relationship will allow, simply sitting quietly, and asking the Lord for His help. Explain that this has you totally buffaloed, and that you are gonna need His help if it's gonna get done. And of course trust that He will be able to help.
Chuck, who is married to one of the smartest people he knows and is continually amazed that this delightful creature not only consented to share her life with him, but that she stayed through the times she has stayed through. Some of which would NEVER qualify as "pretty".
*PS Don't try that question policy if you are at all unsure that you can go through with it. Sometimes one asks a question hoping the answer is different. With this policy, that ain't gonna cut it!!
-- Chuck, night driver (email@example.com), March 04, 1999.
FM, I think it might be time for you to develop an interest in yard or garage-saling. Start as soon as you can because other people will have the same idea by now. You can pick up amazing bargains for just a dollar or two--hand-cranked coffee/spice grinders ("It'll look so cute in the kitchen"), coolers (great for storing beans, rice, and so on, but use them for sweaters or something initially--"keeps the moths out"), oil lamps, candles, extra blankets, fondue sets (great for coffee water heated by Sterno), hand-drill, and much more. But don't ever tell your husband you bought all this stuff for Y2k, just some of it! That's kinda like saying "I told ya so." Just bring things out as needed and if he says, "Hey, that widget you bought would be perfect for Y2k," just act like it's a great idea. The other thing to do is buy huge sizes of everything ("They didn't have anything smaller and besides it's much cheaper this way"). He'll get it eventually, I just hope it's sooner rather than later. Sorry I can't offer better advice but I haven't got the experience.
-- Old Git (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 05, 1999.