We are not only CRIMINAL, but possibly INSANE

greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

Y'all just GOT to get a load of the following (posted & spun by GN today):

Y2K Anxiety Disorder. Didn't somebody here predict last year the info-industrial complex would get into the y2k mental-health business ?

-- Blue Himalayan (bh@k2.y), March 03, 1999


Let's all 'respond calmly, empathically, and in an authoritative manner' the next time Christopher Dodd tells us whatever breaks will get fixed in 72 hours. Calmy stroll to the bathroom, empathically raise the lid, and as authoritatively as possible do what needs to be done.

-- Spidey (in@jam.com), March 03, 1999.

Ahhh, I see the light!! All this time I thought it was bad computer code!!!! But its not, its just me: I am both a criminal and I am insane. (Or, criminally insane as they say.)

Thanks, Blue, I feel lots better now....

-- Jack (jsprat@eld.net), March 03, 1999.

Y'all can be insane criminals all day, but

"Hypervigilance -- continually scanning for signs of danger -- interferes with reflective thought and effective concentration."

The Hypervigilantes........ like it. That's me.

-- Lisa (lisa@deluded.ohyes), March 03, 1999.

And this is exactly WHY Mr K's pablum is so dangerous:

< help separate realistic concerns from "catastrophic thinking" challenge "operating assumptions;"

question sources of anxiety-provoking information; if valid, then take appropriate action, rather than just worrying

discriminate between "normal anxiety" and more debilitating clinical forms, in which fear predominates and interferes with one's life

remind people that they have successfully coped with challenges in the past

point out that anxiety about 2000 is culturally, not universally based (it's already 4698 on the Chinese calendar!)

Separating realistic concerns about the future from catastrophic thinking is needed in order to maintain a sense of psychological equilibrium, as suggested by John Koskinen, chairman of the President's Commission on Year 2000 Conversion, who recently said, "As it becomes clear our national infrastructure will hold, overreaction becomes one of the biggest remaining problems."

the whole remainder of the article - if seen about why people can cope and recover becomes a textbook reason why people should be realistically warned. Instead, this guy focuses back on the "Christian fundamentalist hatred and fear mongeringing" that we are familar with. He never aknowledges the technical problems most likely coming.

If he addressed those - he'd be perfect. He (the author) missed every part of it is his haste to focus on aniety about the "year", not the problem that is cauing the axiety.

-- Robert A. Cook, P.E. (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), March 03, 1999.

Read the whole thing - he's writing it specifically for the banking industry to re-assure customers of the banking industry that they should keep their money in the banking industry.

The quotes used are verbatim from the most-often used sources for the mainstream media - so he did just what Mr. K ordered - using the references exactly like what Mr. K. provided.

So how many tax dollars did he paid do this?

-- Robert A. Cook, P.E. (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), March 03, 1999.

Hypervigilance? Does that mean we're all HRV-positive? Or maybe it's HRV-negative.

-- Silly Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), March 03, 1999.

I'm going to inform the Air Force that their use of the term "check six" is a symptom of the newly-identified "hypervigilance disorder". Continued use of this term will result in the assignment of Justice Department investigators.

-- Blue Himalayan (bh@k2.y), March 03, 1999.

It is very important to understand that the intention of anxiety-oriented interventions is not to simply put people at ease or somehow eradicate their apprehension by making them believe that "everything is all right," but rather to help people accurately assess and effectively cope with the danger(s) they perceive. Realistic risk appraisal is generally enhanced by having access to accurate, timely and personally meaningful information.

Timely, accurate information. That would be nice.

"danger(s) they perceive"

Those poor delusional people. (whoops, that would be ME!)


IMHO volumes of work need to be done focusing on the psychology of DENIAL, surrounding y2k.


It is very important to understand that the intention of DENIAL-oriented interventions is not to simply put people ON ALERT or somehow ELEVATE their apprehension by making them believe that "everything is GOING TO HELL," but rather to help people accurately assess and effectively cope with the danger(s) they WON'T perceive. Realistic risk appraisal is generally enhanced by having access to accurate, timely and personally meaningful information.

We must therefore do our best to inform the denial prone individual, in order to assure they will not be a liability to themselves or others.

-- Deborah (info@wars.com), March 03, 1999.

If anybody here is still coughing, sputtering, or gagging over deJager's "enemy of the people" concept, they better not go to


until they recover.

-- Ken Seger (kenseger@earthlink.net), March 03, 1999.

Blue Kitty,

That is so funny, as I was reading that it reminded me of a military first aid book I was reading which had a section dealing with soldiers that were 'freaking out' so to speak :-)

-- Deborah (info@wars.com), March 03, 1999.

I nominate the following for Reality Distortion Field intensificational instrumentative modality refraction quote of the year:

Experts on anxiety say practitioners should help clients separate 'real concerns' about their home computers operating properly next Jan. 1 from catastrophic thinking that there will be no food or water available next year.

HA ! I bet all these shrinks've got 12 gauges with 1000 rounds of 3" magnum shells in their closets

-- Blue Himalayan (bh@k2.y), March 03, 1999.

By the way - if you study his paper - notice that what he suggests doing (now remember, he is being paid to write this for the banking industry - see the address) is exactly what the readers at this forum have done repeatedly as people post urgent threads about fears, DGI relatives, worries, threats, and concerns. Collectively, the responses are exactly what he is saying to do: calm down, focus, start and finish short term preparation goals, etc.

We knew what to do, did it, but just don't have a PhD to get paid doing it. He's the one denying reality and burying his head in the sand: funny, he didn't talk about the Ostrich syndrone.

-- Robert A. Cook, P.E. (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), March 03, 1999.

This psychologist is right on the mark. He's simply pointing out that most of us here are NOT insane and over-reacting. As Robert said, old timers here have done everything by the book. He's differenciating between pathological anxiety(ineffective anxiety, such as denial, or "deer in headlights" syndrom) and constructive anxiety (a sense of urgency and concern, which motivates one to action.) We're taking action by keeping ourselves informed and actively preparing.

The GAO has a healthy anxiety:

"The public faces a risk that critical services provided by the government and the private sector could be severely disrupted by the Year 2000 computing problem. Financial transactions could be delayed, flights grounded, power lost, and national defense affected. Moreover, America's infrastructures are a complex array of public and private enterprises with many interdependencies at all levels. These many interdependencies among governments and within key economic sectors could cause a single failure to have adverse repercussions in other sectors. Key sectors that could be seriously affected if their systems are not Year 2000 compliant include information and telecommunications; banking and finance; health, safety, and emergency services; transportation; power and water; and manufacturing and small business."

Page 2 at http://www.gao.gov/ne w.items/ai99050t.pdf

-- Chris (catsy@pond.com), March 03, 1999.

To quote "a list of 10 factors that are likely to be helpful:

1.Taking a deep breath! (This applies to both customer and employees.) 2.Being in the company of someone who appears relaxed and calm 3.Having one's feelings accurately and appropriately acknowledged 4.Establishing collaborative working relationships with people on whom you are dependent 5.Creating openness to information that can broaden a person's perspective and reduce the cognitive "tunnel vision" which fuels anxiety to begin with 6.Recalling and emphasizing ways in which anxiety-provoking situations have effectively been handled in the past 7.Avoiding language that is unnecessarily catastrophic and provocative on the one hand, or which inappropriately minimizes the significance of the problem on the other. Finding a "middle way" which realistically portrays the situation and clarifies straightforward steps that can be taken to address it. 8.Focusing on "here and now" issues, rather than on the future or past 9.Encouraging active coping: planning, preparing, anticipating, and working with current manifestations of the problem 10.Conveying a sense of optimism and confidence in peoples' ability to cope with stressful or anxiety-provoking situations. "

Let's see; 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10 are things which we do fairly well on this forum (IMHO). So I guess that makes us part of the solution, right? ROFL!

-- Tricia the Canuck (jayles@telusplanet.net), March 03, 1999.

This reminds me of the story about little Johnny who was observed by his 1st grade teacher working a quantity of what smelled and looked to be "doggie do-do" with his hands.

"Johnny! What are you doing?", she asked.

"Making a teacher", was the reply.

While Johnny continued his odoriferous activity, he soon found himself in the principal's office.

"What are you doing, Johnny?", the principal asked.

"Making a principal", was the reply.

Well, Johnny was never asked to cease, and he didn't, but he soon found himself on the way home with his mother, who quite naturally asked, "What are you doing?"

Johnny's reply of, "Making a mother!", so distressed the poor woman that instead of continuing home, she took Johnny directly to a psychiatrist's office and, after a tearful plea, was granted an immediate session for little Johnny with the doctor.

As the psychiatrist began to practice his craft, he said, "Johnny, I'll bet that I know just what it is that you're making!"

Little Johnny looked at him suspiciously and asked, "What?"

"A psychiatrist!", was the triumphant answer.

"Nope!", Johnny replied, "Not enough shit."

-- Hardliner (searcher@internet.com), March 03, 1999.

Now on the side of American Blind Justice (a.k.a. God really does have a fine sense of irony - oh yeah He does!) this pretty much guarantees that a majority of the APA wont be preparing...

hey, maybe they can look up Paul D. and all go find a grain elevator together...


-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), March 03, 1999.

1.Anxiety typically involves a state of intense apprehension about potential events in the future which people perceive as involving personal risk or danger.

2.Anxiety tends to make people highly attuned to situational cues related to the theme of personal danger or threat.

I live on the outskirts of Atlanta. These two paragraphs accurately describe my normal state of mind while driving on the freeways around here. 'Course I'm OK again, once I get back home.

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), March 03, 1999.

You people, collectively, are in obvious need of prescriptions to blue Valiums.

You mistake common sense for Pollyannaism, and when told that your paranoia is abnormal, you respond with the typical response of those who are in denial about their own psychological problems -- "it's not us, it's those who are against us!"

Classical psychology -- you're no different from hundreds of extremist factions throughout history. What makes you think you are?

-- Chicken Little (panic@forthebirds.net), March 05, 1999.

What makes us think we're different? Among other things the Senate Y2K report. Is Senator Bob Bennett in denial about psychological problems?

-- Paul Revere (calm@home.now), March 05, 1999.

Well, "Mr. Classical Psychology",

For starters, any speech that begins, "You people, collectively, are in obvious need of. . .", and is not accompanied by claps of thunder and bolts of lightning and delivered in a booming, planetwide voice tells a certain tale about the speaker.

But, since you're so well versed in the art, you needn't be told that.

-- Hardliner (searcher@internet.com), March 05, 1999.

Chicken Little, take your patronizing drug-dealing outta here and try to sell it to Andy Grove (Intel CEO) "Only the Paranoid Survive"

-- Blue Himalayan (bh@k2.y), March 05, 1999.

"What makes us think we're different? Among other things the Senate Y2K report. Is Senator Bob Bennett in denial about psychological problems? "

Really? Most of the posters here think the Senate report is too pollyanna-ish. Don't believe me? Take a poll.

-- (.@...), March 05, 1999.

Take a poll? Nope - we've long sice established that polls don't matter - only work and repair, then find out and breaks what breaks.

Let the politicians rule by "pollitical" opinions - the power grid and natural gas distribution system don't care what you think: only what their designers and programmers do.

I got hold of Dr. Salmon (University of Louisville) today - invited him to respond - here and in a couple of other places. Let us see what happens.

-- Robert A. Cook, P.E. (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), March 05, 1999.

Ooops - Need a y2k-proof-typing-slower-than-thinking-checker -

that should be: ... only work and repair as much as possible, then find out what breaks during the test, then fix that, retest, fix that, find out what breaks, ....

-- Robert A. Cook, P.E. (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), March 05, 1999.


I think the Senate report *is* too pollyanna-ish. Nevertheless, it's enough to make a sane person want to prepare:


Y2K may spark unrest, economic pain -US Senate

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The year 2000 computer bug may set off civil unrest in poor countries, undermine economic growth in Asia, Latin America and Africa, and disrupt global trade in oil and other commodities, a Senate panel said Tuesday.

While there was a low probability of an accidental nuclear weapons launch, the committee said missile systems and other high-tech weapons in other countries could malfunction. The Senate was also warned that terrorists might strike against U.S. targets next Jan. 1 to take advantage of weakened security.

``I have a nightmare of CNN cameras in villages or cities where there is no power, no telecommunications, the banking system is broken down, widespread rioting,'' said Utah Republican Sen. Robert Bennett, chairman of the Senate's Special Committee on the computer problem.


For the United States, Y2K disruptions should be manageable, the Senate panel concluded.

``The committee has no data to suggest that the United States will experience nationwide social or economic collapse, but the committee believes that some disruptions will occur, and that in some cases Y2K disruptions may be significant.''

Bennett said the U.S. military might experience some minor computer glitches, ``but its mission-critical, war-fighting capability will not be compromised.'' U.S. intelligence services would also be ready in time.

The U.S. health care industry may be the least prepared, according to the panel, which said the nation's Medicare system was in ``serious trouble''.

The committee complained that U.S. airports started preparations too late, and warned that shipments of goods by sea could be disrupted because the maritime industry was running behind. But it said a prolonged nationwide blackout was unlikely, although local and regional outages were possible.

In case vital services were temporarily cut off, the committee said Americans should stock up on bottled water, canned goods and other essentials, as they might to prepare for a winter storm lasting two to three days. People should also keep copies of their financial records in case banks run into unforeseen problems.

The committee said the most serious computer problems were likely to strike other countries next Jan. 1, because many of them started preparing too late or not at all.

The report singled out Japan, Mexico, China, Germany and Taiwan for falling nine months to two years behind schedule in preparing for the year 2000 bug. The committee also said that major oil producers Venezuela and Saudi Arabia were 12 to 18 months behind schedule.

``Disruption of flights and global trade between some areas and countries may occur,'' the committee said.

In a closed-door briefing for senators, Bennett outlined the Y2K threat to national security.

``There is a low to medium probability of terrorist exploitation of Y2K. However, we must remain vigilant in case some of our security systems malfunction,'' Bennett said afterwords.

But he added: ``There is a medium probability of economic disruptions that will lead to civil unrest in certain sectors of the world, particularly where their economies are already fragile or there is political uncertainty.''

He told senators there was a ``high probability'' that widespread computer glitches would compound economic problems in Latin America, Africa and Asia.

``In some countries it will be more serious than others,'' Bennett said. ``The unknowable question is what will be the impact on the United States.''

-- Kevin (mixesmusic@worldnet.att.net), March 05, 1999.

Wonder IF I can now get a year's worth of xanex? I did see one of the senators just yesterday say on C-span "One thing I did not know till just yesterday was how dependent we in US are on imports of items to make our drugs" Uh oh...Was he serious? BTW>>>> Dont stockpile/hoard any med's (especially them there xanex for anxiety) cuz you put a 'strain' on the pharmacy's. Oh please... All I think of is how many lives may be lost because of the medications.. I can live without the xanex, but what of Aids, Diabetics, Heart Patients? Are they doing anything to address this? Population control?

Okay, i'll go take another pill....


-- consumer (private@aol.com), March 05, 1999.

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