HopelessInSeattlegreenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread
I give up! After this Senate report I'm beginning to think maybe I'm wrong about the seriousness of the situation and how it will effect me after all. Before this report came out, the prelim report was using phrases like "the most devastating event" this country has ever faced. etc. etc. Now, it is a bump in the road for America.
I am ready to say, "OKAY, I give up". It's a nonevent. I have about a month's worth of food in stock and I think I will leave it at that and take these Senators word on this and forget the whole mess.
I'm in the music business and this has been very distracting for me and my clients. Maybe all of us "cautious" people are reading TOO much between the lines. Everyone, I mean, EVERYONE is telling us their part is going to be okay. I think I'll just buy it for a while.
-- linda (TIREDofitall@hotmail.com), March 02, 1999
Tired of all these gun-toting establishment-banging wackos that think they know better than anyone else, be it de Jager, the Senate or anyone.
If it wasn't y2k they would be causing panic under a different banner. Even sensible contingency plans arent good enough for these extreme rightwing psuedoreligious maniacs.
One of them was whining a day or two ago that they had to wait fourteen days to buy a gun. Reminded me of the Simpsons episode where Homer went to buy a gun and he was told he had to wait a few days before he could take it home. Homer responded, "Aw, but I won't still be angry then".
They're happy to advocate and promote runs on the banks, just because it's their 'right'. You never hear them talk about their responsibility to their fellow man though. Theyre the most selfish ignorant hell-raising paranoid schizodweebs in existance.
One by one they drop out of this group with a message along the lines of they are totally depressed about y2k and think they are losing their minds and need to get away form it all for a while. They haven't yet figured out that by only dwelling on the negative and worst possible outcome that they have become unstable and even possibly dangerous.
Even Jerry Springer won't do a show with some of these guys!
-- metoo (email@example.com), March 02, 1999.
Linda, as slick willy would say "I share your pain". Sen. Bennett is driving me nuts with his statements. One day he says that if anyone thinks this will only be a bump in the road then they don't understand the situation. And then today he says it will only be a bump in the road. Who ya gonna believe, Senator Past, or Senator Present?
-- MaybeIm nutstoo (anon.@anon.com), March 02, 1999.
Linda, I wish I could believe the Senate reports, but I'm just a little to cynical for that. Our Govt. has a vested interest in keeping us all "cowed down". As a person who has worked for them, and been ordered to do things senate sub-comittees and others have denied, I have lost most of my faith. Have you noticed that every time they give a 'no problem' report they always end it with something like " to the best of our knowledge" or "as far as we can tell" ? To me this is not the most reassuring of rhetoric. NO ONE really knows what will happen in the months and years to come, and if you are comfortable with your level of prep, good for you. As you know there is a lot of B.S. out there and T.E.O.T.W.A.W.K.I. conjecture. Like you, I am reluctant to believe the worst. BUT.... I do think it would be foolhardy to adopt a stance wherein you listen wide eyed and puppylike to all the Govt has to tell us. They know they cannot afford to start a panic regardless of how serious the situation might be. That would do no one any good. My advice is to keep reading and listening with a critical eye and ear to every source available to you. Wade through the crap and you will find whats right for you. Good luck and God Bless, Charlie P.
-- Charlie P. (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 02, 1999.
Lidna, these are the same sort of people who said the savings and loan crisis wouldn't cost very much. These are the same sort of people who said defense cutbacks wouldn't be any problem--shortly before DoD announced the closing of a 4,000 civilian-person facility in Norfolk and numerous shipyard layoffs. It took us eight months to sell our house in a very popular area, and we lost money on it. But we DID sell--neighbors with a house like ours but more improvements, put it on the market the day we got a contract and, despite dropping to a price below what we got for ours, hadn't sold it after two years.
You want to trust these people, fine. Not me. When politicians say, "no problem, we can fix it," I take action. A month's supplies puts you way ahead of the crowd--but keep adding to it. What's the worst that can happen? You have food to eat at early 1999 prices and the money you save you can spend on toys.
By the way--did you notice how both Bennett and Dodd today kept stressing that this was an INTERIM report, that they still don't know the true effects of Y2K. That was a flag to me that the next report is going to be a bit worse.
-- Old Git (email@example.com), March 02, 1999.
PS - "bump in the road." You should see some of the bumps in the road around Durham after a heavy rain followed by 95-degree temperatures followed by a heavy rain again. Some road! Some bump!
-- Old Git (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 02, 1999.
Linda, you need to go to the actual report. I can't find the word "bump" in it anywhere. Given that Senator Bennett said on national tv 2 days ago that this was definitely *not* a bump in the road, I think he was either misquoted today, or meant to say the opposite. At any rate, the report overall has a very serious tone and proves the Senate Committee believes the matter to be very serious. And it is absolutely *not* true that "everyone is telling us their part is going to be okay". The most devastating news I have seen so far, from just a few days ago so it may not be reflected in the Senate's report, is the US Postal Service's announcement that it is likely to be a real mess next year.
-- Brooks (email@example.com), March 02, 1999.
Linda and meetoo
Sounds like you are starting to make up your own mind. That is waht is first and most important to each individual. I salute you in this. (Even though I think it's the wrong decision.)
Keep an open mind for the facts, but then YOU (continue to) decide for yourself.
The best to you both.
Adios (Texan for "God be with you")
- Got Facts?
-- Greybear (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 02, 1999.
Metoo, ask Homer and Jerry what to do. Then come back and tell us please.
-- KoFE (Intv@land.com), March 02, 1999.
Would you all be so kind as to post your observations/comments on the Senate Y2k press conference/report (along with what the other "pundits" are saying (at least for today 3/2/1999) to the thread entitled "Play by Play Y2k Day in the Senate?"
Trying for a complete archive of the day's events.
Kevin's posted a hotlink in other forums. This is the best I can do. Sorry!
"Play by Play: Y2K Day in the U.S. Senate" http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000Yir
Maybe Kevin can rescue me again!
-- FM (email@example.com), March 02, 1999.
Hot links! Getcher hot links!
Play by Play
-- Mac (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 02, 1999.
NO! I was listening to the press conference on CSPAN-2 live. Sen. Bennett said "Bump in the road!" He was not misquoted.
I think they're softballing on purpose. Though not necessarily for nefarious purposes. I think that THEY think, they have to raise consciousness SLOWLY.
I think they're wrong. And that they're not doing their credibility any good by contradicting themselves.
As for me, yes it's very hard to stay focused and not get depressed. I wrestle with it daily. But I still am preparing.
-- Jollyprez (Jolly@prez.com), March 02, 1999.
Maybe Bennett did'nt say "bump in the road" in his report but he sure used that exact terminology in his press conference today on CNN.
-- Watcher (email@example.com), March 02, 1999.
Don't base your evaluation of Y2k on anything that any one else says. The facts are all here. You would not be reading this if you did not have access to the information. Read the 10Q & 10K reports and find out what the numbers mean 20% complete with remediation after 3 years and confident we will finsish (in 6 months) do not go together. Use common sense. How can an industry that has been working on this for 4 years finish in less than 10 months what is only 50% finished after 4 years? I do not care what the "officials" say it cannot happen. Why did the federal mission ciritcal systems number 7336 1 year ago but only 6404 today? Of course they have signficantly improved percentage wise, they lowered the goal number! You can not let any one decide for you, you must make your own decision. The feds sure will not give you an acurate picture only a politically expedient one for them.
-- Steve Watson (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 02, 1999.
Hi! I'm new here and normally just a watcher. I know I need to get more involved. Anyway...Senator Bennett represents Utah, and I would think his first allegience is there. If the idea is true that "actions speak louder than words," seeing what Utah is doing may be a key to Senator Bennett's true feelings. Well I live in Utah and preparations seem to be pretty vigorous here amongst the locals. For example, food chain stores and hardware stores which are some what Utah controlled are filled with 55 gallon water containers, grain, and dried food to buy. I've lived here about 2 years now and it wasn't this way here last year. You didn't trip over 55 gallon water jugs trying to enter Macey's, Ream's or Allen's grocery stores like you do now. In the stake where I lived, that is a whole bunch of church wards combined, they had a womens meeting about a month ago. The head lady lectured everyone on the necessity to get their food storage programs in order. This would be food for a year. So I think that what Senator Bennett is saying in public and what he may be advising the LDS Church and the state government in private may be two different things. I don't know. Maybe the cynic in me believes that Bennett wants to make sure Utah is ready before possible national panic sets in. This is his state. I hope there is something here you can use. Sincerely, Apple
-- apple (email@example.com), March 02, 1999.
To anyone doubting the seriousness of this situation:
Keep in mind, even if y2k is barely a hiccup here, reports coming out of Washington have unpleasant things to say about various parts of the world, please go to the link above and read about other countries.
"It is true that today's increasingly liberalized global economy, uncritically hailed by the great multinational coorporations, is itself unstable and could suffer a massive coronary. The distended debt balloon on which it rests could be punctured. Wars, sudden interruptions of energy or resources, and any number of other calamaties could cause it's collapse in the decades ahead. Under catastrophic conditions, one might imagine the need for emergency mobilizations......
....Alan Greenspan, chairman of the U.S. Federal Reserve Board, also has warned that the creation of multinational securities firms that buy, sell, underwrite, and invest in many nations increases the risk of large-scale breakdown. "A loss by one or more of these firms," Greenspan declared, could result in "transmitting a disturbance" from one country to another."
Alvin Toffler-Powershift ISBN 0-553-29215-3
Again it comes down to your personal risk threshold.
There is little doubt in my mind that we could possibly escape the years 2000-2001 without feeling the impact y2k will have on the world.
Speaking of generous people, why don't you keep preparing, and if you don't need it you can always send it overseas or to a local shelter or soup kitchen. There will always be people in need, y2k or not.
-- Signed,extreme rightwing,gun totin, psuedoreligious,stockpiling,fanatic (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 02, 1999.
From my notes re "bump in the road":
"In the US, bump in road, not crippling, not for undue length of time. This is INTERIM report, we don't know. . ." However, Bennett warned that "internationally, chances are much higher" for serious problems and later referred to civil disorder overseas and a concern about oil supplies. The hint is there to be taken if you look for it and if you have any idea at all that we import goods from not-so-developed countries. Maybe it WILL only be a bump in the road in the US--IF you don't include overseas problems causing a cascade effect. But that's impossible to do, isn't it? Still, technically, Bennett is probably correct. I reiterate, though: Some road. Some bump.
-- Old Git (email@example.com), March 02, 1999.
Thanks for all the good insight you guys have posted today. I was brought up short by the posts about the "bump in the road" quote. THIS is the kind of things by these darn Senators that drive me to drink or worse!
I went back and found the quote by "the Senate co-chairmen"(notice the plural. The quote came from the "wichita eagle" and was written by Robert rankin from the Eagle Washington bureau. It was posted at Yahoo news on February 24th. Here are some of the quotes from that article:
co-chairmen wrote: "Those who suggest that it will be nothing more than a 'bump in the road' are simply misinformed."
I guess someone got to these guys and mis=misinformed them before they came out with their report today.
Other interesting quotes from the article: "this problem will affect us all individually and collectively in very profound ways....It will indeed impact individual businesses and the global economy. In some cases, lives could even be at stake."
"one of the most serious and potentially devastating events this nation has ever encountered"...
Between February 24th and today the tone got much calmer. What happened?
Thanks for bringing that up guys. Because Senator Bennett did say today on TV that it would be a "bump in the road" for Americans.
This is really upsetting. I despise cowardice in all forms, including trying to manipulate the public.
-- linda (TIREDofitall@hotmail.com), March 02, 1999.
I too was shocked to hear Bennett saying "a bump in the road" when a week or so ago he was saying quite the opposite. I had one thought on this:
They just came out of a closed meeting regarding national and international security. Anyone think they decided in that meeting to tone things down a bit for John Q Public to avoid a panic? I do....
The intensity of these warnings will escalate in the weeks to months ahead...
just a thought,
-- gideon (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 02, 1999.
How typically 90's America that you rely on a series of 10 second blurbs on the boob tube to make a potentially life or death decision! Now use those neurons God gave you and think for yourself. C'mon, you can do it! To reiterate a few of the above posts, go to the original material(s) -- Senate Report, GAO report(s), Inspector General report on the Post Office, FAA material, 10Q's of Fortune 50 and your local power company, CIA report and recommendation --- and THEN MAKE UP YOUR OWN MIND!!!
Sorry to be harsh, but this is simply to important a PERSONAL decision to leave it up to a mindles TV blurb. In fact, do your self a favor and trash the TV.
-- RD. ->H (email@example.com), March 02, 1999.
Heh! Did I watch the same CSPAN-2 channel with Bennett and Dodd as you guys??!! I missed the first 5 minutes, but Dodd later clearly said that he didn't espouse either the bump-in-the-road or the End of Western Civilization scenario. They both gave me the impression to be around a 6-7 on the scale. And have you read the report? Just read the Executive Summary section. That's in black and white, nothing in it is anywhere near bump-in-the-road!
-- Chris (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 02, 1999.
metoo .... Stick with the cartoons . Don't strain your brain with real info, like the " Nightmare Scenario" , just published a few threads back. And , by the way, don't forget you teddy and your "blanky" when momma tucks you in tonight ! It's scary enough when she turns out the light, RIGHT ???? .......... Eagle
-- Harold Walker (email@example.com), March 02, 1999.
Be prepared for a continuous sonic stream of governmental propaganda with sweet melodies, nothing discordant. Whatever works best with the masses will be replayed like the top ten.
Exercise critical thinking and don't go back to sleep. It's sometimes harder to reawaken those whose slumber deepens.
-- dinosaur (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 02, 1999.
we all get frustrated by the fact that the government keeps trying to contradict the facts, and even contradicts itself in public. The question is: how much longer before they've completely destroyed their credibility? I mean the sorts of self-contradictory lies they've lowered themselves to telling are becoming more and more obvious to larger and larger segments of the community.
what happens when they realize that no one is paying attention to anything that they have to say?
-- Arlin H. Adams (email@example.com), March 03, 1999.
Remember the concept of "white noise"? Well, we all experienced it today. I think speechwriter might justrank right up there with programmer in the income levels if this keeps up.
metoo..wakeup and go do some investigating. You look funny with your head in the sand. I think I'll go count my matches. Lobo 03/02/1999
-- Lobo (Hiding@woods.com), March 03, 1999.
About twenty years ago my wife accidentally wasted our brand new Sony trinitron television with a Charter arms .44 bulldog. I found it pretty amusing at the time, and now am amazed at her foresight.
-- Nikoli Krushev (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 03, 1999.
I am one of the socially liberal, religiously ambiguous, new age, European import driving, fancy coffee drinking, non-gun toting yuppie geeks on this forum. I see things a bit differently than some of our more "cautious and questioning" members but I am preparing for a 4 to maybe a 6. Why? Because I work in a very technical industry that is in total denial about what is quite likely to happen when the clock strikes midnight, 2000. I have seen some incredibly laughable Y2K contingency planning. I have seen some "wing it, fly by the seat of our pants" attitudes about Y2K issues such as, "well it was built in the 1990s we are assuming it's Y2K compliant". Sad.
Like others have said on this forum, look ahead, make some decisions about what you think will happen, look at the vulnerabilities of the area in which you live and plan accordingly. Personally, if I am proved wrong, and Y2K is just a little bump, and God I hope it is a little bump, as I have a lot to lose if TSHTF, I will be happy to eat a big dose of crow. As a result, I have purposely steered clear of buying anything that I won't or can't use, eat or easily sell if Y2K is simply a bump in the road. That may be some sound advice for those not convinced that TEOTWAWKI is around the corner. I can't imagine spending my hard earned money on freezed dried camp food that I would never eat if Y2K is just a bump or even a fair sized disruption. The local soup kitchen might not even want it. If Y2K is a 10, I will adapt and move on to plan B. I could afford to lose a little weight.
But having said that, even with the best laid plans, someone could get sick, die, lose a job, the house could burn etc. and lay waste to the well thought out plan. Do your best. Make decisions for yourself doing the best level of research available to you, (I agree with the others, that's not the TV or even print news.)and try to relax. Good luck and have a little fun.
-- Better safe than sorry (email@example.com), March 03, 1999.
Remember, our economy is running full-throttle. What happens when you hit a bump in the road going 90?
-- Will Knot (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 03, 1999.
Road kill and it ain't pretty!!!!
-- Buzzard (email@example.com), March 03, 1999.