SOME CHRISTIANS FEAR THE END; IT'S JUST A DAY TO OTHERS

3/1/99 Chicago Tribune Page 1

< a href"http://www.chicagotribune.com/splash/article/0,1051,SAV-9903010162,00.html">http://www.chicagotribune.com/splash/article/0,1051,SAV-9903010162,00.html

-- Deborah (info@wars.com), March 02, 1999

Answers

Uh Oh. (blush)

one more time

-- Deborah (info@war.com), March 02, 1999.

Deborah,

You've almost got it. Both times the trouble is right at the beginning -- the rest is okay.

The beginning of the HTML link has to be <a href="http:. Your first try ( starting with < a href"http: ) had an extra space and no equal sign. Your second try ( starting with <ahref=http: ) eliminated the extra space and added the equal sign, but left out another required space and the first quote mark.

-- No Spam Please (anon@ymous.com), March 02, 1999.

Sometimes the Chicago Tribune *does* print Y2K articles that address the problem seriously. Like this one...

http://chicagotribune.com/version1/article/0,1575,SAV- 9901010066,00.html

-- Kevin (mixesmusic@worldnet.att.net), March 02, 1999.

The headline writer has inverted the obvious: why would Christians 'fear' the end? We look with hope for the coming of the Lord. "Come, Holy Spirit, come through the most powerful intercession of the immaculate heart of Mary, your dearly beloved spouse." Do not fear!

-- Spidey (in@jam.com), March 02, 1999.

"...why would Christians 'fear' the end?"

Different levels of confidence, maybe.

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), March 02, 1999.

No Spam,

Thank you! Thanks for being kind as well.

Kevin,

The Jan. 1 article is the one that got my attention. It sent me to the net. ;-) I know this one isn't very serious, but I thought there might be some people interested.

Spidey,

Yes 'fear' is the wrong word. Although I'm not in the 'y2k will be the second coming' camp. I think it could coincide with the beginning of sorrows.

Also:

"...intercession of the immaculate heart of Mary, your dearly beloved spouse."

All I have to say, is when you're in deep doo doo, it's Christ you want interceding for you. Learned that one the hard way. I know there is no way to say that without it feeling like an attack. I'm truly sorry for that.

I know this isn't the place for this, so if you want to discuss it at Pastor Chris's that's ok too. I just believe what I do so strongly, I couldn't leave that unanswered.

Show me a Bible verse to support it & I'll take it back publicly.

-- Deborah (info@wars.com), March 02, 1999.

WARNING: BRIEF RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION. (Please direct all flames to /dev/null/) So let's break out the old Bibles and hop to...

"why would Christians 'fear' the end?"

The answer's pretty simple if you're involved with a religion that aligns with so-called Primitive Christianity, which in a nutshell is one that tries to duplicate the original first-century beliefs employed during and immediately after Christ's life and death. Two of the more well-known examples are the Mormons, who mix some elements of Primitive Christianity with an amalgam of other beliefs; and the most well-known (if disliked) of them all, Jehovah's Witnesses, who stick with the original first-century beliefs more closely and with (arguably) a higher degree of accuracy than any other religion on the planet.

Most of them, with varying interpretations to detail, see the end of the word as the end of a system of things in accordance with Matthew 24:3-14 among other places. (Jehovah's Witnesses, for example, usually say that the reasons for their door-to-door preaching are Matthew 24:14 and 28:19, 20 among others, relating to preaching of God's impending Kingdom to replace the current system of things.)

Part of the concept of the "end of the system of things" is divine punishment in almost all belief structures that share this detail. Other Biblical events accompany this end, such as the "Great Tribulation" mentioned in Matt. 24:21, 22, Rev. 7:13-17, and several other places. (Side note: Several Primitive-Christian religions and a large number of scholars interpret the stint of bad things happening in Matthew 24 as having a typical and antitypical prophetic fulfilment. The typical one happened when Jerusalem was sacked and eventually destroyed in 69-70 AD. The antitypical one has not yet occurred. Could the next several years be that antitypical fulfilment? I'll tell you in several years. ::grin::)

That's what has them spooked. If the Bible passages are correct, there's a downward spiral coming that will degrade until the Great Tribulation fires up in earnest and leads to that most famous Bible term, Armageddon. When is anyone's guess (Jesus doesn't even know, see Matt. 24:36, repeated in Mark 13:32) but so far the Bible accounts in Matthew 24 have hit with resounding accuracy. These folks might have reason to wonder if they'll make it when God comes to call.

Hey, all this amateur scholar stuff might come in handy after all... ::chuckle:: (BTW, there's a lot of good stuff in the last several chapters of Matthew.)

At any rate, if the Bible is even remotely correct, Y2K is the least of some peoples' problems. And if you're looking for a sign that the end is nigh, what better one than a single event that hits the whole planet at once? Again, if the Bible is even remotely correct, a good number of people are screwed. (Matt. 25:31-46 for example) Those are often the ones that fear the end.

Oh well, I feel pretty comfy in my assessment of my likelihood of coming out intact...

END WARNING. We now resume our current programming.

OddOne, who has picked up a thing or two from reading all his life...

-- OddOne (mocklamer@geocities.com), March 02, 1999.

Spidey is a Marian cultist. Don't waste your time trying to turn him into a GI. Mary is just the Roman Catholic equivalent of the pagan goddesses. Not that theres anything wrong with that. But it isnt Christian at all.

-- mary (mary@popesinvention.com), March 02, 1999.

Deborah: I knew that would bug some protestant viewers. Bible verses? How about Luke Ch. 1:48: "for behold, from henceforth all generations will call me blessed." Or Luke 1:28: "And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women." That's the beginning of the rosary. When I was a protestant, I asked a Catholic priest why all the stuff about Mary? He told me "if you respect a fellow, you respect his mother." Kinda stuck with me. Do YOU ever ask your minister, or a friend, to pray for you? Why? Do you somehow imagine that Mary, the mother of Jesus, who raised him, loved him, whose heart was pierced by a sword (Luke 2:35), who watched him die on the cross, is not with Him in heaven. And if she is with Him in heaven, can she not intercede with him, as she did at the wedding in Cana? "Honor thy father and mother:" Does Our Lord not keep the commandments? Deep doo-doo--- oy veh.

-- Spidey (in@jam.com), March 02, 1999.

I dont ask dead people to pray for me because-----and wait, this is profound-------because they're dead!! Summoning dead people is pagan and evil and you will burn for it unless you repent. Ask Pastor Chris. He knows. And besides the Bible says that Jesus intercedes for us not Mary. It sounds like the old priest got you fooled. Never mind, you can always get straightened out. Go to Pastor Chris forum and ask us to pray for you.

-- mary (mary@popesinvention.com), March 02, 1999.

Odd One,

You said:

"Jehovah's Witnesses, who stick with the original first-century beliefs more closely and with (arguably) a higher degree of accuracy than any other religion on the planet."

Is this cult day at Yourden's??????" This is the single most false statement I have ever heard on this forum. You sound like a Jehovah's Witness.

Jehovah's Witnesses are a cult. They've been around for about a hundred years. They wrote their own Bible, of which the interpretation from the original Hebrew & Greek is poor at best. If a verse didn't coincide with their cultish doctorine they just changed or omitted it(John 1:1 for example, want more?). They teach out of the Watchtower which uses psycobabble cult techniques to lead you to the conclusion that you are stupid if you don't agree. They are filled with wonderful (brainwashed) people earnestly trying to work their way to heaven (Paradise on Earth) They do not believe Christ is part of the Godhead, they say they would not bow down to Him & therfore are not 'Christian' at all. Of course, they won't reveal this to possible cult recruits, it takes a while to reach the depths of their murky teachings. I know several JW's (and a few former ones as well, 'Elder's' in the mix) I have enough information on their twisted beliefs to fill books.

Christ said you will know them by their fruits, so I ask you where are the JW soup kitchens, shelters for homeless,help for battered women, orphanages, relief organizations, assistance for unwed mothers??? Christ fed hungry people, and healed people as well as preaching the Gospel.

JW's also tell their members that other Christian denominations don't teach or even study their Bibles. Why don't you go to Pastor Chris's forum and test that theory????????? It's a big fat lie.

Escape the cult while you still can.

Want proof??? Go to Pastor Chris's forum I will be happy to provide documentation which can be looked up in any Kingdom Hall Library.

-- Deborah (info@wars.com), March 02, 1999.

"escape the cult. Go to Pastor Chris' forum." Ho-kay. Deborah. Jesus rose from the dead, right? During the transfiguration, when Peter and John saw him with Moses and Elijah, who exactly was he with? Dead people? Did Jesus ever raise people from the dead? Really? But his mother? No way? This is a pointless discussion, but let's say you've convinced me, and I want to return to protestantism. Which sect should I join? Lutheran? Methodist? Dispensationalist? Baptist? AME? Episcopalian? At last count there were over 23,000 identifiable protestant denominations. How do I choose? You know, maybe I'll just stick with the Church Christ founded on Peter, Petras, the rock, because Our Lord said that the very gates of hell will not prevail against it. Lord knows Satan hates the Catholic Church, but I figure if Satan hates it so much, there must be something to it. I'll take my chances. Praise Jesus Christ, Who was, Who is, Who ever shall be!

-- Spidey (in@jam.com), March 02, 1999.

Brothers and Sisters let's not get into name calling, especially in this venue. Emotions are high right now, but let those of us who worship Christ work together and not allow our efforts to be disrupted by doctrinal squabbling. There are those who find great joy in watching Christians fight, let's simply not give them the pleasure.

Arlin

"For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. I was with you in weakness, in fear, and in trembling. And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power. That your faith should not be in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God." - 1 Corinthians 2:2-5

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), March 02, 1999.

Spidey,

I never said YOU were in a cult. My best friend is a Catholic, sits on the planning commitee for Holy Week, and will be reading the Gospel during Holy Thursday Mass, she is a lechter. Guess what? It was I, who encouraged her to get MORE involved in her Church because she did not feel a strong sense of community there. Why would I suggest this to someone I love if I thought it was a cult? Also, we never argue about our faith. But share our experiences often and are richer for it.

I said that Jehovah's Witnesses are a Cult, ask your Pastor if they are or not. Research them.

Luke Ch. 1:48: "for behold, from henceforth all generations will call me blessed." I'm blessed too, and so are you!

How blessed are the people who's God is the Lord! Psalm 144:15b

"the rosary"---For when you pray, do not use meaningless repetition, as the Gentiles do...Matthew 6:7

I asked a Catholic priest why all the stuff about Mary? He told me "if you respect a fellow, you respect his mother."

So RESPECT HER, you don't have to elevate it to idolotry.

"Do you somehow imagine that Mary...." I don't base my faith on what I imagine, I base it upon God's word: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For there is one God, and ONE MEDIATOR also between God and men, our LORD JESUS CHRIST.

1Timothy 2:5 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- So I'm still waiting for the verse(s) that says Mary is a mediator or intercessor. I'll take it all back. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 I will bow to the Word, present the evidence. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BTW I wish all Christians shared your strong faith. Also, I personally had to learn the Mary thing quite painfully. I wouldn't wish it upon anyone. I truly spoke to you out of concern, not to slander your church, or suggest you leave it. Every church needs brothers & sisters strong in the faith. With faith as strong as yours the last thing I would do would be to ask you leave. Only God can guide you to the church He would place you in.

Arlin,

I would never have commented about 'useless doctorine' such as pre, mid or post trib rapture for example. I am truly concerned for anyone who rests any hope for answered prayer or any other spiritual thing in any one except Jesus as our Mediator to God through the Holy Spirit.

Little children guard yourself from idols. 1 John 5:21

Also, I too have been guilty of idolotry. Anyone has, who has rested their faith upon anything other than God, (money, people,etc.) I do not claim to be perfect, far from it in fact.

I couldn't let the initial comment pass, because I then would be guilty too for any damage it caused.

-- Deborah (whowas@is.istocome), March 02, 1999.

Ah, but I AM in a cult--it's called 'Christianity.' Peace.

-- Spidey (in@jam.com), March 02, 1999.

Spidey,

Peace be with you! I don't want to argue. We are uniquely placed where we can impact those around us.

Fight the good fight, Brother.

-- Deborah (maythe@peace.ofGod), March 02, 1999.

"Only the wise will know!"

-- Mark Hillyard (foster@inreach.com), March 02, 1999.