5 Million Folks Just Got Treated To Opposing Views of the Senate Report...

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Well, well. Talk about when you think panic might start hitting the store shelves.

Rush Limbaugh today (2PM EDT) announced the findings in the draft report from Senator Bennet's Y2K Committee - from 2 different wire stories. Both contradicted the other.

The first was no-nonsense (like the postings here) and urged folks to "Prepare for a hurricane." The other (I think Reuters????) stated "No big problem, no glitches, just some minor aggrivation". Don't stockpile, don't remove your deposits...

Though Rush is officially a DWGI, the fact that 5 Million folks just had their ears perked up by this report is interesting. Rush's take was incredulous: How could there be two COMPLETELY different takes on the same story?

Simple I'd say. Listen to Robert Bennet (R. Utah) talk about the problem, then listen to Koskinen on the same day. Confusion at the highest levels - ON PURPOSE!!!

Ahhhh, the White House Spin/Propaganda Machine worketh overtime.

The gist of the story was: Folks preparing will cause a panic. Doomers are banking their whole life on this, blah, blah blah....

Seeing what happens later on this week will be most interesting.

Most interesting indeed.

Got Sam's membership?

-- INVAR (gundark@aol.com), March 01, 1999


ZDNet, the ezine that Mitch Ratcliffe write for, published a commentary on the upcoming Senate Report, and on Bennett and Dodds appearance on two TV shows.


The emailed responses to the article a hilarious. I copied and pasted a few below. Out of the ones selected, randomly, only one indicated that there may actually be a problem.

Folks, if you want to see how many computer literate people actually view Y2K, read the full list of responses. My comments are below each of the responses I copied.

Last opinion I would take is politician's. They are too out to please all sides, so try to cover all bases--the fearful and the knowledgeable. Listen to ZDNet or someone else who isn't trying to make money or curry favor.

Yep, listen to Mitch Ratcliffe. Oh, boy.

Is this "Chicken Little" or are there actual facts that support this scenario? Lets hear what the facts are. I am aware that certain religous groups advocate storage of emergency supplies as a prudent plan for any unforseen event. Could this be the case here?

"Lets hear what the facts are?" Where has this guy been for the past year?

What in the world is the matter with people. Where do these Senators come off with trying to panic people with the sky is falling. These two men must be stupid to tell the general public to stock up. We have too many uneducated people who do not understand anything about this thing. All of the people and business's that I deal with say that they are OK and Senator Phil Graham of Texas said that the Banks are OK. I do not beleive that electric power will stop. I know that there are manual overides on most systems. The airlines have said that reservations are working. Please stop this panic talk or we can be in trouble.

This is unbelievable.

It looks like their research should be respected and we might be cautious.

Goodness, a voice of semi-sanity in the ZD crowd.

If the senators are ignorant enough to Let President Clinton off they are surely ignorant enough to advise the public to stock pile water and other things for in their minds the Y2K epocalipis.

Well, what can you say. This poster is right, but he simply shows us the problems we have when our government lies to us.

I'm sorry to disagree with you and the many others forecasting doom and gloom because of the so-called Y2K problem, but I believe this is being overplayed. Everyone wants us to think that there will be major problems so that we will buy, buy, buy and buy some more, and keep the economy going the way they think it should. I cannot believe that the computer industry cannot come out with a band aid to fix the problem, since they in fact created it and have known this was coming for ages. (Occupation: Unemployed County Administrator)

I can understand why this guy is unemployed J Yeah, right, now Y2K is a conspiracy to get us to buy, and also note that the computer industry can do it with a band aid. Oh, good grief, this one really demonstrates a lot of research, doesnt he?

-- De (dealton@concentric.net), March 01, 1999.


-- Robert A. Cook, P.E. (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), March 01, 1999.

Welcome to Y2K Schizofrenetica, spotliting the Goobermint at its most forked tongue. Slither!

xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), March 01, 1999.


I too spent a few minutes reading those responses. They were "interesting". To many of us who hang out here it is easy to forget just how extreem some of the views are out there. They are a bunch of extreemists, and something has got to happen to stop this.

Why doesn't the government do something to stop all those extreem views? This is terrible. If they get their way we may not be able to stockpile food, LAWS rockets, tons of TNT and our one Petromax lantern.. We may not even be able to bring about the downfall of Wester Civilization with bean power.

-- Gerybear, this has gotta stop (those beans may be more of a threat than anyone realizes)

- Congrego Legumen?

-- Greybear (greybear@home.com), March 01, 1999.

"Seeing what happens later on this week will be most interesting."

Invar, with Art Bell having regular Y2K experts on, and Gary North linking to this Forum today (aaarrrrgggghhhh!), plus tomorrow being Y2K Day in the Senate (courtesy Drew), and the Rushies getting a whiff -- what we'll need is a Server Pass-Thru.

Sleep, sleep, sleep, sleep, sleep, sleep, sleep, sleep ....

-- Wicked Witch (poppies@my.pretty), March 01, 1999.

How vehement they are in their denial! Only one person is cautioning, hey, there might be something to this. Again, I'm reminded of the folks around my neighborhood who don't want to hear and be on alert about local burglaries and vandalisms because it frightens them. Ostriches!

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), March 01, 1999.

Beam me up Scotty!

-- Chris (catsy@pond.com), March 01, 1999.


Maybe if they would change the phrase to "prepare for a planet-wide, simultaneous" hurricane - or, hell! "pretend like the sun's going to go out for a week"!!

Y'all, my mayor (big GI, BTW) hasn't yet gotten the letter that Koskinen was sending out. I beg, has anyone seen it?

-- Lisa (lisa@work.man), March 01, 1999.

Look, for many people this may be the first actual authoritative message that Y2K won't be a rose garden. Quite frankly, in that context, the responses are actually quite reasonable, and are typical in their denial that there is a problem.

But, slowly and surely, the message is coming through. And next month, when New York State, Canada, etc., go to fiscal year 2000, thats when things will definitely heat up.

-- Jack (jsprat@eld.net), March 01, 1999.

Well, I'm not too surprised at these responses.

My neighbor asked me for info about Y2k, she thought maybe she should start preparing a bit. Her husband is a DWGI. I called her today and said "I have the info whenever you want to pick it up." Her response - "Well, C. says he doesn't want to hear about it. He doesn't believe there's any problems. The government will fix it." I told her that if she decided she wanted the info, it's here. She said, "Okay, thanks, but I really don't think I should...C. might get upset."


This is the typical attitude of those not on the net I am afraid. They don't have access to the information that we do, so it's not surprising really. They just don't *know*.

Bobbi buzzbyte.com

-- Bobbi (bobbia@slic.com), March 01, 1999.

Okay folks, I've analyzed this forked-tongue, doublespeak BS, and here is my take on it: they're creating the correct atmosphere for how they wish to corral the public.

Our benevolent government/those in power/and in-the-know/ is re- playing the impeachment/Clinton situation: muddy the waters.

Breed confusion and conflict. Place blame. Create a nemesis/ demaguoge. Create a breeding groud of argument and spin.

This creates apathy.

The American public will get sick of it, tune out and not care.

When so-desired, at the proper time or whenever the lid cannot be kept on the true nature of the Y2K beast, they will create a savior.

Any guess on who you think that will be?

It might get Ms. Broderick off the talking head circuit.

This is the time-tested and true nature of how this Administration and the media, deals with problems/crisis, even in the face of hard facts. Take the Lewinski mess as proof: deny, deny, deny, lie, lie, lie, wag the finger, lie some more, attack the accusers/fact presenters, use the media to spin the facts, to question the motives of the accusers and confuse the hell out of the public, until you can create the perfect atmosphere to achieve your objective.

This is how Truth is handled in the Clinton/media 1990's.

The culture is such now, that a plain and bold fact is open to interpretation, angles, perspectives and polls. The ones citing the facts are to have their motives examined if they go against the political grain of the elites: Why cite them? What hate do you have? What axe have you to grind? What bias do you hold? Why are you so extreme? Do you want a panic?

Remember folks, polls are now the major newsmakers.

If they don't like the facts the way they are presented, take a poll and change the attitude about the facts. Create "experts" using lawyers and law proffessors to debunk the facts. Public perception is the key to everything. Control that and you control the attitudes and habits of the people.

It's advertising 101.

Don't think for a moment this administration don't know that.

Hell, they perfected it to a science.

In the meantime, those of us with eyes to see and ears to hear will become the enemy. The targets of a media campaign of discreditation and public humiliation.

Those that need to hide from the facts, and benefit from misinformation on the severity of this problem will implement the tried and tested method of remaking facts to fit your purpose.

This is your true legacy Mr. President. You have given everyone in a position of authority that fears any facts or truth about anything, the tools to bullshit their way to messiahship.

Those of us preparing just might get a taste of what it is like to be Ken Starr.

(Insert the Phil Collin's? Genesis tune "Land of Confusion" here for dramatic effect)

-- INVAR (gundark@aol.com), March 01, 1999.


-- Steve Hartsman (hartsman@ticon.net), March 01, 1999.

INVAR: yep, politics was disengaged from policy a long time ago. Rally around whatever flag you want, it won't change a thing. Policy is determined by faceless men who know what is best for us. In the real world, Oz really IS powerful, and they still like to belch out lots of smoke and fire to wow the masses. As for the ZDNet crowd, they are reacting angrily to those who challenge their belief systems. "...I do not believe the electric grid will fail..." Such statements are part of the credo which trusts blindly in a never ending world of green lawns, pension funds, leased beemers, and Hagen-daaz in the freezer. WE become the heretics, the witches who must be burned at the stake. How DARE we challenge their gods! Their gods will NEVER let the lights go out. Why, it says so right here in...in...Time magazine. What higher authority is there? Away with the Y2K infidels--if they will not bow down before our idols then banish them to the outer darkness of the internet. All truths when first encountered are deemed to be heresies, and the truth-tellers are mocked, condemned, and otherwise bloodied.

-- Spidey (in@jam.com), March 01, 1999.

Greybear --


Up with bean power

Tengo mucho legumen

-- De (dealton@concentric.net), March 01, 1999.

Dittos, Invar.

A pretty cool guy once said, "The truth shall make you free."

When the banks declare an emergency "holiday," when the grocery store shelves are stripped and no re-supply trucks are enroute, when the lights go out, when the gas pumps go dry...at that point, the truth about y2k will split the darkness of B.S. like a 10,000 watt spotlight at midnight.

All the spin, all the distortion, and crap that passes for intelligent discourse in this generation will freeze in its tracks. The truth will be staring people square in the face, and they will be stunned beyond words.

-- rick blaine (y2kazoo@hotmail.com), March 01, 1999.

Invar, the savior will be Patrick Bossert! The inventor of the Delta-T Probe that finds problems with embedded chips in no time flat! U.S. News and World report says so!


Is he the guy the "Book of Revelations" warned people about . . .or. . .is that the somebody in a blue turban? (Has anybody seen a picture of Patrick Bossen? Does he wear a blue stocking cap?)

Rambling on. . .

-- VLS (inbusiness@theoffice.net), March 01, 1999.

Rick: Stunned beyond words, or

-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), March 01, 1999.

Looks like things are heating up faster and faster here. Am about to go off-line for a week -- am traveling to New England for a little R&R and we've agreed not to take the lap-top with us!!! Oh no! I can feel the withdrawal symptoms setting in!!!!!

Tengo mucho frijoles tambien!!

-- Libby Alexander (libbyalex@aol.com), March 01, 1999.

Libby, my advice to you: start drinking heavily.

Went to the in-laws for the weekend, and just two days without being able to check in with the Yourdonians was torture. I kept trying to boot up Mom's microwave.

-- rick blaine (y2kazoo@hotmail.com), March 01, 1999.

Will you folks PLEEEEEZE quit feeding the Ziff-Davis troll! If you would just boycott their freakin' site, they'll quit writing this drivel and maybe, just maybe, fire Ratsass. I repeat that the ONLY REASON THEY DO THIS STUFF is because they KNOW it will draw repeat advertising hits from all the Yourdonites. ZD would KILL for the kind of traffic that this forum receives.

ZDNet is baiting you. Quit falling for it.

-- Jelly Bean (jelly@belly.com), March 01, 1999.

Addendum to Greybear:

What's all the fuss from the truly paranoid? All this stuff about self-fulfilling prophecies, panic and such. They should all be glad us extremists are stockpiling. Several detremental side effects can be borne-out as a result of stockpiling. To wit: a depleted cash reserve for one. Then there's these:

Got legumes?

Get Flatulence

Got Spam?

Get 'reah

Got wheat?

Get Constipation.

Got TP?


Get leaves.

So what're they all a tizzy about? A nation-wide takeover by dehydrated food zealots? We'll all be too busy bowled-over with intestinal cramps on the pot to stir panic and unrest (which is what they're really afraid of).

No my friends, the lesson here is this:

Got BMW?

Got Haagen Daas?

Got soccer?

Got stocks?

Got Jerry Springer?

Got CNN?


Got 401K?

Got faith in the Prez?

You Don't Get It. You Don't Wanna Get It. You Don't Want Others To Get It. You Won't Get It.

Until the stark reality hits. The beamer's got no gas, the Haagen Daas melts, the soccer field's a shooting gallery, the stock market tanks, Jerry Springer joins a Y2K commune, CNN goes black, TIME stands still, the 401K evaporates, and the Prez declares martial law (and himself king).

Then, as Mr. Blaine so aptly put: All the spin, all the distortion, and crap that passes for intelligent discourse in this generation will freeze in its tracks. The truth will be staring people square in the face, and they will be stunned beyond words.

And the piss will be running down their legs.

Got Pampers?

-- INVAR (gundark@aol.com), March 01, 1999.

1999: The Year Of Living Schizophrenically...(from a Yourdon poster.)

-- Donna Barthuley (moment@pacbell.net), March 01, 1999.

you know, the longer this goes on, the more I'm concerned about the colateral damage to the infrastructure which will be caused, not by y2k effects, but instead by upset DWGIs who are suddenly cold, thirsty, hungry, etc.

*sigh* Arlin

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), March 01, 1999.

Oh I just had to respond to this one....

VLS wrote:>Invar, the savior will be Patrick Bossert! The inventor of the Delta-T Probe that finds problems with embedded chips in no time flat! U.S. News and World report says so!


Is he the guy the "Book of Revelations" warned people about . . .or. . .is that the somebody in a blue turban? (Has anybody seen a picture of Patrick Bossen? Does he wear a blue stockingcap?)<<

No VLS, it's not a blue turban.

That is a MIS-interpretation of Nostradamus (Not Scripture).

Not a blue turban.....

...a blue dress.......

-- INVAR (gundark@aol.com), March 01, 1999.

Assuming that someday Rush L. "gets it", what do you think he'll do. Wouldn't he 'lose face' to change his tune for 5 million people who may be regular listeners and may also be DWGIs - - and what do you think the effects would be (if any) should Rush start Y2K prophesizing?

-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), March 01, 1999.

Invar,.. I'd be ROTFLMAO if I weren't so worried. . .

By the way--do you write comedy for a living? Quick on the uptake, you are.. .

-- VLS (inbusiness@theoffice.net), March 01, 1999.

INVAR where is the next installment of the Bagga Sagga?

Graybar, Got Beano?

The spinning wheels got to go round. Sureal, better than a Dali clock! Time keeps ticking away...... 500,400,300.... Happy New Year!

-- Bill (y2khippo@yahoo.com), March 01, 1999.

One of the things the Bear Den will not be doing come y2000 is eating a bunch of new foods. Hell, we eat all that stuff now. Made a many a good meal of beans and rice.

Some hints for those unfortunate souls not born south of the Red. Here's a typical pig out at the Den: Pintos (Lone Star Strawberries) with the correct seasonings (takes several: chili powder, garlic, liquid smoke, and several secret ones), little chunks or various meats (kind depends on how our road kill monitor does) sometimes ham, sometimes deer sausage, sometimes rabbitt, sometimes...well, I'll quit here on the meats. Add a nice pot or rice cooked up seaming. Hot buttered cornbread made on cast iron (other surface not nearly as good), or a big twisted-off hunk of home made bread, a big slice of 1015 onion, a cold glass of milk. For dessert we have another bowl of the same.

Now I've done it, I gotta go fix me a batch. Did I forget to mention that they are a whole lot better on subsequent days.

Anyway, we're already ready. We have a secret plan to unvail when everyone else starts eating all the beans. We think we have the predator and looter problem solved. We call it the Rocket Plan for Self Defense. It involves a diet much like above and bic cigatette lighters. We're practicing daily.

Details later.

-- Greybear, safety first always, DO NOT try this at home, these activities are preformed by trained professionals. Work your way up to it slowly.

- Got Jalapenos?

-- Greybear (greybear@home.com), March 02, 1999.

That's too many ingredients (I definitely counted more than three, including the pot), ergo it must be cooking, and so therefore is not worth the time trouble and effort - unless Veronica is doing it, and I'm eating it.

However, a philosophical question can be asked: if an ingredient does not require an separate appliance to apply it (ie, salt directly applied from a salt shaker), does it count as an ingredient or separately, such as a condiment? Thus, if butter, mustard, barbeque sauce, pickle relish and catsup are squirted from their respective dispensers, then squished (spread and melted) by rotating the hot dog, one could include all of them and still only have two ingredients: the bun and hot dog. No knife is needed, and only the pot needs cleaning. Obviously, scrambled eggs requires a pot, eggs, and a spoon: thus, still meeting the three ingredients criteria.

-- Robert A. Cook, P.E. (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), March 02, 1999.

Greybear ... ROTFLOL!

You gonna write a Y2K receipe book? Could be a best seller, over the next 9 months! Earn ya more prep dollars too.


See also ...

Y2K Stockpiling May Fuel Economic Growth (Time)

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 000YeK

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), March 02, 1999.


Oh....my.....gawd. You put condiments in your beans? What ever for, that'd make a......oh....wait.....never mind.

You are a cook by my definition. I limit myself to 2 ingredients: hot water and instant coffee. That's only on those occasions when I wake up at 4 am and try to get going. One never wakes MaMa Bear up early and I ain't figured out her fancy coffee pot yet. I'll stick to systems with 7 applications in three different locations interacting with each other, getting info from 3 main frames, handling 96 phone lines, and saving data in 12 different formats, all 7x24. Nope, not me, I ain't messing with that coffe pot.


For a title how about "Survival Cooking and Home Defense in 10 Easy Steps"...or..."Beans, The Dangerous Friut"...or maybe..."Eat Your Way to Security"

And BTW, I commend y'alls restraint. Usually someone in the crowd can't resist that "poor unfortunate souls not born south of the Red" line.

-- Greybear, move over Jullia Childs, I'm a comming through

-- Greybear (greybear@home.com), March 02, 1999.

ROFL ROFL Til I gotta clean the floor cause the kitty litter don't work!!!!!!!

On a more sober note, somewhare back there (I think on this thread, hell this ain't a thread, it's a f'n hawser!) there was a comment referrinmg to things heating up in April as the various states etc. roll into Fiscal 2000. NOT!! At the rate they are going, either A) The fiscal caused problems won't be noticed until July or later, or B) they will be able to hide em and keep em on the reservation indefinitely, simply causing un-explained glitches in odd places.

Just my NTBH US$.02.


-- Chuck, night driver (rienzoo@en.com), March 02, 1999.

I think you guys have it all wrong. ZDNet is performing an important public service by assisting in cleaning out the shallow end of the gene pool.

-- a (a@a.a), March 02, 1999.

Greybar, forget the Beano. I'm ordering the M17A1 gas mask used for chemical and biological weapons. No wonder they have the black helicoptors down in TX. There's biological weapons hidden in every Chili eating home down there. Hide those strike anywhere matches we've had enough explosion reports here lately.

-- Bill (y2khippo@yahoo.com), March 02, 1999.

Lesson No. 1: Woe to those looking to overthrow Texas, or anywhere the diet portends the combustible.

Yes Greybear, Julia Child's gastro-intestinal classic: "Music From Your Food" shan't touch the literary genious of putting the "Meals of the Militia Movements, and Other Outhouse Treasures" on WaldenBooks shelves.

Insert "The 1812 Overture" here for dramatic effect. (Cannons and all).

-- INVAR (gundark@aol.com), March 02, 1999.

Maybe the Nat'l Guard should consider the following slogan:

CHILI, America's First Line Of Defense

Next to Ammodium AD

-- INVAR (gundark@aol.com), March 02, 1999.

Greybear, I have a friend that tried the Bic thing. We now call him Hairless Huevos. Not a pretty sight and not my weapon of choice (unless you want to laugh your enemies to death)

-- (rick@ina.com), March 02, 1999.

He obviously didn't use his sphincter to its full-blown capacity.

Proper force must be used to clear the "muzzle".

Rule of thumb No. 32: Don't use a flamethrower unless it's fully pressurized.

Rule of thumb No. 32b: Don't use the natural flamethrower unless it's fully pressurized (See Greybear's Hot Chili w/Extra Beans and Onions Recipe for proper "powder levels").

Got cabbage?

-- INVAR (gundark@aol.com), March 02, 1999.

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