It would be a sad and ironic tragedy if the first personal casualty of Y2K was caused by someone's lack of safety considerations during their own preparations. There is a very real potential for this to happen as more people begin storing heating fuels, candles, kerosene heaters, buying firearms for the first time, etc. The risk of accidents goes way up -- so your adherence to the rules of safety had better go way up as well.

There's too much to cover in one post here and I don't want to make it that long. Suffice it to say that a large number of dangers exist and safety must be a paramount concern. THIS IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY.

Whether it's learning to handle a firearm safely or storing propane, gasoline or other fuels, take the time to learn how to do it right. If you're one of those people who refuses to read the owner's manual, then you must either change your ways or get some personal instruction from someone who knows.

If you have never owned or used a firearm and now insist upon exercising your right purchase and own one, then you absolutely MUST get instruction from several responsible individuals. (I recommend NRA and/or Izaak Walton). Do not think that simply reading the owners manual will suffice. It takes time, guidance and practice. If you don't have time to learn the RIGHT WAY, then don't even think about buying it. You, your family and your neighbors will be much better off without the firearm if you are not going to take the time needed to do it right. The absolute worst thing you could do is to buy it and then 'put it away in case you ever need it'. Learn the laws in your state. In many states, personal property may NEVER be defended using deadly force. In anything less than total social breakdown, you WILL be held accountable to these laws.

The same goes for kerosene heaters, wood stoves, chain saws, and all other such items. Read the manual, then know and obey the safety rules - no lame excuses. OK?

Make sure your kids know AND FOLLOW the rules. Period. NO excuses. NO second chances. NO exceptions. Their lives (and yours) may depend on it.

Please DO NOT make yourself or your family the first casualties of Y2K through your own fear, ignorance or overconfidence. You or someone you love will be dead, this forum will be very sad, and the press will have a field day with 'proof positive' provided courtesy of your tragedy that fear of Y2K is worse than any real problems.

Getting prepared involves a whole lot more than just 'buying stuff'.

Regards,

-- Arnie Rimmer (Arnie_Rimmer@usa.net), March 01, 1999

Answers

One mistake and your life could change forever, think about it! This is SOUND ADVISE. Tman

-- Tman (Tman@IBAgeek.com), March 01, 1999.

Great point Arnie. Be prepared, and be SAFE! Common sense must be the rule for all of us. <:)=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), March 01, 1999.

PS - I've noticed we don't have a "Safety Issues" category here. What do you think gang, a good idea??? <:)=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), March 01, 1999.

Arnie and Sysman,

Yes, Safety would be a great category. It's been touched on in more appends than I can remember (power generation, water purification, diatomaceous earth, etc., plus the topics you've already mentioned in this thread). There are lots of us out here who haven't had to deal with these things before, and if TSHTF, even an ordinarily minor mistake could be a major (or even deadly) concern.

-- Don (whytocay@hotmail.com), March 01, 1999.

If TSHTF, it will be an opportuntity to observe "evolution in action." The so-called "civilized" nations have built up a tremendous apparatus to mitigate the consequences of peoples' stupidity. As Spencer said: "To protect fools from the effects of their folly is to fill the world with fools."

-- A (A@AisA.com), March 01, 1999.

Especially in terms of your children!!!! If you have been among the lenient, the "well, it was wrong but he had a good reason so we'll let it slide for now" or "I don't spank"; you may need to seriously revise your approach. teaching that a candle is hot and not to be messed with MAY require physical negative reinforcement. teaching that a gun is not a toy may require physical negative reinforcement.

You may have had the literal slack to allow your kids to not obey instantly, or to get their own way against your better judgement up 'til now. If you don't feel this change has to be made, read Dean Ing's "Pulling Through". The scenario, with the headstrong kid who doesn't believe immediate obedience is required in the hands of teh thugs, who eventually kill him is NOT FAR FETCHED AT ALL!!

START NOW in retraining your children to something akin to the old "When I say jump, you should ask 'How high' on the way up". My parents were not over strict, but we knew that obedience was required when they said to do something.

Just my NTBH US$.02

Chuck

-- Chuck, night driver (rienzoo@en.com), March 01, 1999.

One item of great concern to me is fire. If the municipal water systems fail it can greatly reduce or eliminate the effectiveness of the local Fire Dept. (even if the trucks will run). This might be particularily true if lots of your neighbors are doing a lot of stupid things in attempt to stay warm.

On a more personal basis, BUY FIRE EXTINGUSHERS NOW! I haven't heard of shortages on these but it is a fairly small industry. Learn about what can be used on what type of fires. Where do you can you use just a handfull for baking soda? Where can you use a bucket of sand? Which types of fires do you absolutely NOT want to use water on?

Learn now and be safe.

Slightly off topic, I'm always bemused at pictures of brush fires in California. There is usually aerial photos of burnout $500,000 houses and right behind them are 20,000 gallon swiming pools. For only $500 or so they could have purchased a gas engine powered water pump, hoses and sprinklers to keep the entire house wet for days. Sad.....

-- Ken Seger (kenseger@earthlink.net), March 01, 1999.

That chain saw can be just as dangerous as the gun. If you don't know how to take down a tree, get some advise and go with some pros and watch how its done. Even taking the limbs off after the tree's down can get you killed if your not knowlegeable and skilled. Again work with someone experienced first.

Learn how to sharpen the chain youself and how to tell when it needs to be done.

Wear a helmet (Old branches tend to fall out of the tree as it moves when your near done felling the tree)

Get a face shield (Keeps the sawdust out of your eyes so you can see what your doing)

Consider a set of leather or Kevlar chaps to protect your legs.

Safe sawing

LM

-- LM (latemarch@usa.net), March 01, 1999.

I get concerned hearing about plans on these forums for make-shift wood stoves. The homemade variety are unnecessarily polluting (one of the many ways I think Y2k will be the excuse for environmental damage), and there are serious issues of safety in how they are designed and installed.

My own conundrum is how to store the stash of 1-pound propane canisters I'm collecting. Right now they are in my cool, dry basement (right below my bedroom, of course, and not too far from my gas dryer, gas furnace and gas water tank). My options are an attached garage (cool, not quite as dry) or my detached shed (damp, extremes of temperature). I don't like any of the options. I think they would be less likely to develop leaks in the basement, but if they do, I won't know what hit me.

-- Brooks (brooksbie@hotmail.com), March 01, 1999.

"In many states, personal property may NEVER be defended using deadly force." This sums up what's wrong with a lot of our laws.

In what concievable ways in the life of some scum-bucket burglar worth MORE than the property that you or I have spent our lives working for? How is his life worth more than the security of our families? If he's a professional criminal, how is it worth anything at all?

This law is pure insanity, & in our bones we all know it. Anyone who breaks into our homes with the purpose of committing theft or doing harm to our families deserves to die, & we all know it. If the laws say otherwise, then in the words of Dickens, the Law is an Ass, & we all know it. We may be afraid to say it, but deep down we all know that this law & many others like it are an insult to reasonable people.

Maybe such an screwed up system deserves what's coming.

-- first let's (kill@the.lawyers), March 01, 1999.

Brooks -- let's not get all tree-huggy. Smoke pollution will be far down on your problem priority list. Besides, if you have only half as many people, each can pollute twice as much with the same net effect as now.

As I wrote 25 to 30 years ago, something to the effect of: "If there is a reasonable population density, when you're on a hike, you can toss your empty beer can into the stream, and it will be rusted away by the time the next person comes along." (This was when beer cans were steel, not aluminum, and you used a "church key" to open them.) "But if you have too many people, the stream is going to be filled with empty beer cans." The problem -- and most people don't get it -- is that the ecological problem is too many people. Period. The conservatives with their wacko religious reasons, and the liberals with their wacko race reasons both contribute to peoples' breeding irresponsibility. People drop litters of rug-rats with no more thought or concern than dogs, cats, rabbits, or rats.

Each individual can not get to "Zero Pollution". There is a certain (undetermined) minimum amount of pollution. Trying to reduce the per capita pollution while increasing the population is a losing proposition. 6 billion people x 5 pollution units is the same as 12 billion x 2.5 pollution is the same as 30 billion x 1 pollution unit.

And without something like Y2K, biological war, whatever, the population will be 12 billion in 25 years or so. If ecological collapse doesn't happen sooner. (e.g., the oceans are running out of fish.)

-- A (A@AisA.co), March 01, 1999.

I came home from the hardware store last week excited about the Coleman lanterns that use gas, or the fuel, since gas cost so much less. My husband reminded me last year the lantern caught on fire, which was scary enough, but said if it was gas it would have exploded. These are not recomended for indoor, or in the tent.(by my husband) Now I want to go down there out of curiosity, and see what the warning label, or directions say.(Not to criticise Coleman)I think talking about safety is an excellent idea! Mahalo!

-- Justin Case (justin case@Aloha.com), March 01, 1999.

Arnie, you are so right. We are about to take the "Rimmer no-power weekend" plunge ourselves to test many of our Y2K systems and will be doing it more than once. Fire extinguishers are an absolute must and, amusingly enough (thinking about California swimming pools), we purchased one of those pumps so we could pump quickly from our 4-season creek if need be.

Here is another obvious one: big-time first aid kits. Know someone (preferably yourself) who can administer first-aid, it's a skill (think EMTs). We are so blessed that my wife is a nurse-midwife, her sister is an EMT and her sister's husband is a paramedic. Talk about hitting the jackpot ....

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), March 01, 1999.

One area we've got our folks working on is that of natural childbirth techniques. Given the possibilities of limited or unavailable prenatal medical care, we need to be ready for folks who wont have hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of professional support and equipment available to them a la current hospital emergency rooms. Simpler methods can be employed which in most instances will insure the continued health of mother and infant.

and yes A. that means that we are working to directly contravene any attempts by those foolish enough to be influenced by your angry diatribes.

Arlin

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), March 01, 1999.

Women's ability to birth without complication has been running a fine line against natural constraints. Delicate evolutionary balance. Birth canal size vs. fetus head size. If the latter is too big for the former, you got problems. The prevalence of Caesarian births in the last couple of generations has prevented many deaths. However this has resulted in many living who would have otherwise not have, and propagating those anti-survival genetic characteristics. Therefore, if the medical abilities to mitigate these anti-survival characteristics are not present, you will see many more deaths per 1000 births (attempts) than even in the 1800s.

Evolution in action.

BTW, a similar mechanism operates in the appeals to "feed the starving children in wog-land, sob, sniff." Yeah, so they can grow up and breed half a dozen more starving children each.

Bleeding hearts make me puke -- because of their stupidity.

-- a (A@AisA.com), March 02, 1999.