Thoughtlessness Or Plain Stupidity?

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This is the sort of thing,IMHO,which shows how badly it could be.I have heard old timer DGI's say they can live thru a depression as they already have done so. They don't realize how different people are nowadays and goofing up this board out of stupidity, selfishness, or spite is just a prime example.

I sure wish I could be sure of having some of you regulars as neighbors instead of somebody like this. Who our neighbors are may become a critical issue next year.

Luckily, I will be pretty much out of touch, but I fear for the ones in the cities and towns. Some of their neighbors will be a lot more dangerous than y2k.

-- Sue (deco100@aol.com), February 28, 1999

Answers

Great point, Sue.

I've been wondering for a year now how the American population is going to respond to serious disruptions in everyday life.

We will pull together, displaying teamwork and sacrifice, and try to solve the problems as a community?

Or will it quickly degenerate into a selfish, grabbing, clutching, free-for-all?

Since the most popular personal characteristics of the past 30 years are: self-centeredness, a sense of entitlement, instant gratification, rudeness, and an individually-defined moral code, I've got a sinking feeling that the free-for-all is the most likely outcome.

The character of our present generation is much, much different than the character of those Americans who weathered the Great Depression and won WW II. Go to a mall this afternoon and spend 20 minutes looking at the expressions on people's faces and the looks in their eyes. And then imagine how these folks will react if our basic societal infrastructure suddenly collapses.

I, for one, tremble.

-- rick blaine (y2kazoo@hotmail.com), February 28, 1999.


Just ask someone who was at Ground Zero for Hurricanes Andrew or Hugo, the ones who had to stay in the general area after the storms.

-- Cynical Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), February 28, 1999.

I have been bothered for a long time about the use of the term GET IT. The definition of IT is the problem. Some get IT when they realize A or B or C that they have not believed before.

This thread is coming as close to what I think the real "IT" is about as anything else I've see here.

For me the real "IT" is the people and their abilities to function under duress. Serious duress. How they may or may not react both individually and collectively. None of us live in a complete vacum. You must first try to work on how you will funciton under a completly different set of circumstance that you have ever had to even imagine. Then try to decide how those around you will act.

This subject matter is at the heart of the survival of our society.

I'm not denegrating those whose "IT" is somthing else. Each person will have their own epiphany. Probably several as we all progress toward the probable darkness.

For me the most usefull "IT" to be gotten is that the vast majority of people you know will NOT react like they always have. Their reactions will be many and varied, but not the same as you might think now.

You other poster on this thread have hit some of the better points already so I'll not start adding to the subject matter.

Just this opinion that this may be, in the long run, THE most productive subject matter that we can all reflect on.

-- Greybear, who has never suffered a dearth of opinions. You just got one of the big ones and it's probably worth every penny you paid for it.

- Got Reflections?

-- Greybear (greybear@home.com), February 28, 1999.


Sue,

Ah yes, the "X-Factor." The most troubling question to me since learning about this. Seeing as this country is all about *rights* without *responsibility* along with greed, selfishness and everything the others mentioned above, I see the masses acting badly. Which is why I plan to be very, very quite and wait it out...

This country has gone down a long, sad road and I suppose something should wake us up...I just wish it didn't have to be *all* of us...but I suppose it does...

Sigh...

-- Sub-Mit (lurking@ofcourse.com), February 28, 1999.


Sue, I heartily agree with you in wishing I could have some of these regulars (Greybear, Old Git, Diane, Robert Cook, to name just a few) for neighbors when TSHTF. :-) Sure hope we'll all be able to have a little communication with each other though in a worst case scenario I fear it's not real likely except for ones near each other. God bless all.

-- Virlie Maner (HerMuse60@aol.com), February 28, 1999.


What is going to happen when disaster stikes this country will indeed be horrible, because we as a nation no longer hold Christian values sancrosanct. In the 1930's the vast majority of Americans genuflected to Biblical values and beliefs, at least outwardly - this provided a strong glue that helped society hold together during rough times. Today that glue has been largely dissolved by secular humanism (the new state religion), situational ethics (otherwise known as moral relativism), and the pandering by the media to every base emotion and instinct that man has. Belief in the myth of evolution has caused many to believe that this life is all there is, so that they'd better get it all now, and let the devil (or in their case, natural selection), take the hindmost.

What this will result in is a situation where people, having lost their temporal comforts and waypoints, will steal, rob and kill others not only if they are in truly desperate need, but at the slightest provocation. After all, for a people that allows the killing of its unborn children, the crossover to killing anyone else deemed "inconvenient" will be easy of accomplishment. Like spoiled children, they will want what others have, and if strong enough will take it from them. Because they have been conditioned over the past five decades to suck from the public teat, when it runs dry they will follow the socialist dictum that "in times of great stress, all property is communal."

Perhaps a great culling is coming, perhaps it's God's judgement, I do not know. I DO know that it's not to late for us. Read the Book of Noah in the Old Testament, and you'll see that God will repent of His judgement, if we will repent of our sins.

Prayer and repentance is the best accompaniment to food and weapons storage.

-- tellingit (like@it.is), February 28, 1999.


Sue, G.B., O.G., et al-

Many folks with military background later find themselves wondering why those of us who at one time or another were responsible for their training, often had them do the same repetitive task over and over seemingly endlessly until they could (and sometimes did) do it in their sleep...in fact I'll wager there are at least a couple of vets who contribute here who can remember a sudden alert situation where they woke up *as* they were putting on their uniform, no?

The reason that we trained people that way, was because research has shown that in an emergency most people will react the way they've *practiced doing something* NOT the way they've been told to do something, or the way they think would be best to do something. People will do what they've practiced doing.

Unfortunately what that means for the majority of the American population is that they will sit around waiting for the government to bail them out. When that bailout fails to materialize I would expect some rather nonlinear reactions, as people attempt to improvise without the knowledge, skills or abilities to do so.

Extemporaneous survival is generally an oxymoron.

Arlin

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), February 28, 1999.


The statement about repetative training brought back memorys. I, being 19 and oh so smart, couldn't figure how why we had to do the same drills over and over again. I mean I figured out how to tuck and roll when I hit the ground off the 'chute tower the second time I did it. Why do I need to strip and put that damn rifle together again and do it blindfolded. Why do I have to put a weapon together out of a box of parts? Damn I'm getting tired of doing this over and over again!!

Now, being 47 and a little smarter, I understand. I find myself practicing doing things over and over until I can "do them in my sleep." I know "what to do" if I have to perform CPR, I know what to do if I have to control a spin on ice, I know what to do if I have to switch over to a backup power system. I don't think, I react. The poster stating that most people will do what they've been trained to do or in this case not trained to do hit the nail on the head.

If the lights go out "they" will sit in the dark trying to figure out what to do, they will get on phone(if it's working) to call the power company, etc. When that response fails to get results I fear they will be at a lose as to the next steps to take. It will be the lack of foresite in these areas that will cause people to panic when "normal" responses don't work. Then we may see people react in ways that we fear most.

I have met my neighbors. I have ascertained their level of knowledge and I am concerned. Nice folks, cute kids, friendly dog, and someone I will probably have to calm down if things do get dicey. Just the kind of nice people that will wait for the govt. to do something. So I'm doing something now while there is still time. I've organized a meeting at the local, new fire station to spread the word. Got responses from 10 families so far.

I'm going to do the low-key approach utilizing the 72 hour scenario first. But I'm going to "pad" the suggestions so that in reality it would be more like 5 days. Yeah I know that the 72 hour thing may not be enough but you gotta start somewhere! Interesting side not to this is the firemen at the station are very supportive of this idea. All of them are real GI's!! :)

Only thing I'm worried about is the fact that I may find myself thrust into the role of being a leader or someone who has the answers. I'm smart enough to know my limitations so this part has me a little worried. Anybody else found themselves in this type of a situation? How did you handle it? Might be a good thread for a discussion.

Freelancer

-- Freelancer (mercenary2000@yahoo.com), March 01, 1999.


'...in an emergency most people will react the way they've *practiced doing something* NOT the way they've been told to do something, or the way they think would be best to do something.'

Very good point Arlin...especially for us non-military types...there's very little time to practice. Other threads have pointed out how unexpected problems arise. Learning to cook on a Coleman, or wood stove in the midst of a fear situation and while trying to keep a low profile, won't do. I've been concocting menus requiring no heat to be used if things get dicy and we have to act as if we aren't here (live in a suburb of a college town)... better than the metropolitan area, but still not an area where high visibility will be possible with any degree of safety. Have lots of black plastic to cover the windows for black out conditions so any lights inside won't be visible outside. Also am building a 'wall' of stone (like a lovely front patio) to make the front of the house a little less accessible. I know this is frail and that anyone with any determination can bypass any barrier I might erect...but as I told my husband when he objected to fencing the back yard -- if you have a fence and someone climbs over it, you know they have suspect intentions...if you don't have a fence and someone just walks up to your back door it's not so easy to determine intent.

So, any of you military guys have any ideas for preparing one's house in this type of situation (i.e., in town)?

-- Shelia (shelia@active-stream.com), March 01, 1999.


Free?

" mean I figured out how to tuck and roll when I hit the ground off the 'chute tower the second time I did it."

Tuck ? Roll? Chute tower? 34' or 250' what happened to PLF?

Maybe straight leg?

-- Charon (Thatplce@below.com), March 01, 1999.



I give - what's a PLF?

-- Robert A. Cook, P.E. (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), March 01, 1999.

The posts on training culminating in instinct--of course! I took crisis intervention training back in the early 80s, did a crisis help-line volunteer thing for a year. It DOES stick, I've used that training simply by instinct in potentially hostile situations since, i.e., confrontations by complete strangers over some weird tiny thing. Of course, as any combat veteran will tell you, the best way to handle a hostile situation is avoid one in the first place. However, real life doesn't always permit that, so please consider signing up for crisis intervention training offered by some volunteer organization--it just might help you calm down a panicking family member or neighbor in a hurry.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), March 02, 1999.

Freelancer -

Good questions - I find myself in the same place!

I have started another thread titled 'Uneasy Leader' on main page, please feel free to comment as you learn anything we can use.

Thanx!!!

-- Cowardly Lion (cl0001@hotmail.com), March 02, 1999.


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