I believe that every day that goes by means that much less possibility of the successful implementation of martial law, and the concomitant seizure of guns, food, etc. It is a dangerous, gargantuan task. It is inevitable, but its success is problematic, at best, as time goes by.

I expect Clinton will buy time with his executive order restricting cash withdrawals to $2000/month starting April (according to Larry Burkett) but that just means a later start on martial law implementation.

BTW, has anyone considered the possibility that a Wal-Mart panic will coincide with a bank run? In one night, the grocery stores in this country may be rendered a heap of broken glass and turned over shelves, not to recover any time soon, because anyone who gets their money will go straight to the Wal-mart. Got TP?

BTW, I received my tax form from the govt. today which indicated how much they paid me for not growing fruits and vegetables on my hunting lease which doesn't grow anything and couldn't grow an orange if it tried (it's wetlands). It showed me getting twice the amount of vote buyoff money that I actually received for not doing anything. Is the USDA already screwed up?

Finally, I am rapidly coming to one uncomfortable conclusion: I, and my wife, son, and two little girls will not survive Y2k if I am in anyway double-minded or lacking complete commitment to the preparation program. "Hope for the best, prepare for the worst" is for the light weights. It robs you of the singlemindedness necessary for surviving this catastrophe. If you have researched it, and you are honest, you know it will be a calamity of unprecedented proportions. Why? Because the system will become a system of half-truths. We won't know whether what we see on our screen will be a lie or the truth, and that is even worse than if they were all lies. The resultant freeze up by everyone and everything will crater the whole shooting match. Even the Rambos among us will have their eyes bug out of their heads from what they see in the streets as brought on by this catastrophe.

Finally, to really cheer you up, is there any rational reason why we won't see Russian ICBMs in December and the Chinese fleet cruising leisurely towards the West Coast? No happy face responses please, just reasons.

Good night.

-- James (b@b.com), February 27, 1999

Answers

"If you have researched it, and you are honest, you know it will be a calamity of unprecedented proportions. Why? Because the system will become a system of half-truths. We won't know whether what we see on our screen will be a lie or the truth, and that is even worse than if they were all lies. The resultant freeze up by everyone and everything will crater the whole shooting match."

You know if you substitute the phrase "Clinton administration" for "it" those sentences are still accurate.

-- Ken Seger (kenseger@earthlink.net), February 27, 1999.

Dear James. I don't expect to see the Chinese landing troops in California (why would they want it? And if they took it, would we really want it back?) Actually there are logical reasons for my statement. 1. We still have a nuclear capability: 2. The American public admittedly is a herd animal but you let the herd be threatened by an outside source and LOOK OUT. 3. We don not hae anything they want. We have burnt up most of the easily reached natural resources that made this country great (and that China so desperately needs) What they really want is for the US to stay out of their way. The next thing they need is natural resources Oil, timber, Oil, tim, Oil, Oil,,,,you get the picture? I don't expect the Chinese to land troops at Port Aransas or Galveston. I do expect them to land troops in Bahrain and/or Saudi and take over the oilfields. All they would have to do to get away with it is reach an accomodation with our dearly beloved president (while we are under martial law, our country in chaos and Congress trapped at home during Christmas recess). Billy has already shown he has 'warm fuzzies' toward the Chinese. might he not be tempted to accept them as allies? NO, really, the first thing the Chinese will do...the Very first thing....is take back Nationalist China into the fold. Then I would expect them to go on a expansionist spree in Southeast Asia.

As far as Russian ICBMs crossing the pole in December, who the hell knows???? The major thing to remember is that the Russians and the Chinese do not think like we do. They both place much lower values on human life and both nationalities thinking is skewed in the best of times. That is not something I can do something about so I choose to ignore it. (No bunkers, no rad suits, etc) If it happens and I am in the fallout pattern, bye-bye. If it happens and I am clear of fallout, then my preparations for y2k will stand me in just as good stead except for different reasons.

The Chinese will not want to occupy us. They do not want 'subjects' they want power. Economic power will work just as well as military and is far less difficult to enforce.

Lobo

-- Lobo (Hiding@woods.com), February 28, 1999.

Lobo,

"If it happens and I am in the fallout pattern, bye-bye."

Gary North posted a link a week or two ago written by a Scientist somthing like 'Surviving Nuclear War' (I lost all my bookmarks---& searched Gary's Sight in vain maybe someone knows the address)

Anyway, he claims it is a myth that you cannot survive the fallout, and lays out comprehensive plans for doing so.

Sometimes, he sounds like he's talking about y2k : 'if the gov. warned everyone in advance and people had this life saving information in their hands many lives could be saved.'

I don't know if he's right, but I would always rather go down fighting.

Good chance it will never happen, but as usual I think of my children, see their faces and wonder how I would feel if I didn't know what to do in that situation. If I find that link I will post it on the board .

-- Deborah (info@war.com), February 28, 1999.

Deborah .... You need : three foot of dirt, three foot of water or one foot of concrete to stop all radiation ( OR , combinations of the three ) . Biggest thing to know .... Radiation levels fall off in a curve ; ( Given anything above 500 Rads for a hour and your finished.. slow, two week death ) If your in a shelter, and radiation of 800 rads from wind blown fallout occurs outside, within 7 hours it will decay to 400; within 7 more hours, 200; 7 more hours, 100rads. Not much worse than a double chest X-ray , assuming you don't go outside for more than 10 minutes. Decontamination on returning to shelter is a must, as you may contaminate food and water supply, or yourself if you use unwashed fingers to eat food. Eagle ( Former science teacher ... researched this years ago. See old movie "The Day After".)

-- Harold Walker (e999eagle@freewwweb.com), February 28, 1999.

Also see the book "Pulling Through" by Dean Ing. Unfortunately out of print, bit worth the effor to find.

-- Greybear (greybear@home.com), February 28, 1999.

Regarding nuclear war, Y2K and any other large-scale disaster:

If you think you'll die, you will.

If you think you can't make it, you won't.

If you think you're beaten, you are.

I intend to live long after any future nuclear exchange, just as I intend to live after Y2K, God willing. Survival is mostly planning, something that the Rambo-wannabe surv-kooks will overlook to their cost. People with foresight and brains will survive, those without those qualities will most likely perish. And if any Chinese or Russians find their way here, post-holocaust, hey - it'll give me an opportunity to obtain some much-needed protein. All races taste good broiled, some just need a little more seasoning than others.

Hey, I'm just JOKING about that last, so don't get your PC shorts in a knot, 'kay?

-- scooter (living@ground.zero), February 28, 1999.

BTW, here's the URL for "Nuclear War Survival Skills":

NWSS

-- scooter (I'll@be.okay), February 28, 1999.

James, you write;

"BTW, has anyone considered the possibility that a Wal-Mart panic will coincide with a bank run? In one night, the grocery stores in this country may be rendered a heap of broken glass and turned over shelves, not to recover any time soon, because anyone who gets their money will go straight to the Wal-mart. Got TP?"

I think you're wrong. By the time those who have withdrawn their funds get to Wal-Mart (or any fill-in-the-blank-Mart), looters will have cleaned the place out.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), February 28, 1999.

James -

you wont see the Chinese 'fleet'(such as it is) 'cause they don't have the logistics to deploy more than about 500 nm outside their own territorial waters, except in extremely small numbers. They have no means of effective power projection into this hemisphere. period. If you want to see what a transcontinental invasion *really* takes, then go back and count up the total number of ships used in in the spring and summer of 1944 for all of the following: 1. costal defense and antisubmarine patroling in both the Atlantic and Pacific oceans. 2. personnel, cargo and fuel transport to and from Great Britain. 3. the actual invasion fleet used for Operation Overlord.

what you'll find is that NOBODY has that much sea transportation capacity any more.

OTOH, given a major foul up of western defense systems there is no reason the Indians, Pakistanis, Taiwanese, and inhabitants of what used to be the Asian parts of the old Soviet Union wont suddenly find themselves living in very interesting times indeed!

Arlin Adams

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), February 28, 1999.