Nobody here is facing up to the fact that y2k will set us back about 100 years. Even the recent Senate report seemed to gloss over that fact. Well what does this mean to us? It means that there will be massive famine here in the US(no transportation of food or even large corporate growing of food for that matter) combined with widespread diesease like cholera, hepititis, typhus, and typhoid due to the breakdown of sanitation and public health(no toilets, showers,or hospitals). With water being shut off many people will die of thirst. Looting and rioting will break out, turning cities into war zones. Firestroms will rage out of control as the fire department will not have water to combat these blazes(remember L.A.?) Face reality here people. Nobody on this forum is wanting to put all of the pieces of the puzzle together. Well here it is: THERE WILL (UNFOURTANTLY) BE A LARGE PERCENTAGE OF OUR FELLOW AMERICANS WHO WILL PERISH IN THE NEXT TWO YEARS. POSSIBLY EVEN UPWARDS OF 25% OF OUR POPULATION, OR 50 MILLION. Barring a massive effort from our government urging perosnal preperation(unlikely), it is too late to prevent this from happeing. The only question is how many of us will die, and what will life be like during and after the chaos?

-- Face the facts here people (apolcalypse@now.com), February 27, 1999

Answers

apolcalypse (Apocalypse) has hit the nail right on the head! I have at the present about 5 years of food for me and the wife and I'm planning to get much more! I would rather have too much food than not enough! My guess is that electricity will be off for at least one year, and may not go back on for many years. Gary North has said many times that this Y2K problem is SYSTEMETIC!!! EVERYTHING IS CONNECTED! If one thing goes down, it will drag other systems down! One year of food simply is not enough! For sure you will be scrounging for food in 2001. However there will be no food then, so you will die from starvation! Get as much food NOW as you can! If you don't have money, have a garage sale! Sell all your unneeded items!!! If you have not used it during the last year, you don't need it! Buy bulk foods NOW! You can get 50 pounds of all kinds of cereals for around $15. Cream of wheat (Farina), oatmeal, 9 grain cracked wheat, all kinds of beans, rice, potato flakes, dried peas and corn, etc. etc. The dried peas cost only $7 for 25 pounds! Sprout them and it is like eating fresh raw peas out of the garden! It is loaded with natural vitamins!!! 50 pounds of wheat is only about $8. You can sprout wheat for 2 days and eat it and it will be like taking live vitamin pills!!!. You will require nutrition during Y2K!!! Eating nothing but canned food will cause you to get sick! Try to sprout as much food as you can and try to eat it raw. Forget about trying to cook complete meals. Change your eating habbits during Y2K into a nutrition survival mode and you will not get sick! If you try to survive on NON nutritious food, you will get sick and not be able to go to a doctor or hospital and you will perish!!!!! You must at all cost try to prevent from getting sick in 2000!!!! STOCK UP NOW OR YOU WILL LIVE (DIE) TO REGRET IT, FOR SURE!!!

-- Freddie the Freeloader (freddie@aol.com), February 27, 1999.

IDIoT!!!!! WhY DO You poST YOuR queStION IN ALL caPS?????? DO nOt yOU KNow hoW ANnoyIng is tHIS???? DO YOU????? Go tO YOuR ROoM OF THe INStANt noW!!!!!! INFidEL!!!!

-- Dieter (questions@toask.com), February 27, 1999.

Troll alert and I'm not talking about dieter. Famine is possible but no one knows what's going to happen.

-- (qui@qui.org), February 27, 1999.

Speculation is not being a troll. Dieter is a troll.

Water, food and heat (shelter) are the big three for survival. The senate report has indicated y2k could be the largest crisis the United States has ever faced. We have known this for sometime, but soon the heard may begin to prepare. If they do, food shortages, cash shortages, ammunition/gun shortages, etc.... There are already shortages in some ares for some items (generators, water filters, silver/gold coins). My family has enough stored food to survive a year, but we do need to make some plans to survive a loss of income that could come from a long term depression and interuptions in the factory food supply. 50 million people dead in U.S.? Maybe?

-- Bill (y2khippo@yahoo.com), February 27, 1999.

FACTS....WHERE are yours? NOBODY knows how long, or to what extent...I dare say you are a fear monger. Or, you may be right...On the TRUE side, NOBODY knows for sure. To the new ones posting/reading here, go on about your preparations, do what you can plan as you 'feel' the need for your family. Do not allow messages like this to weigh you down and to give up. I have came to the place of peace, I am preparing, doing what I can, praying it is enough and learning more thru web surfing...This forum does not need someone with NO REAL FACTS to back up this thread....JUST THE TRUTH>>>>>

-- consumer (private@aol.com), February 27, 1999.

So, its going to be a 10 huh? Gary North? Is it YOU??? Seriously people-- noone knows what will happen. Even a cynical Ranger like myself will tell you I have a little more faith (little being the key word here) in our Govt. than that. I can understand why you may be feeling a little like chicken little right now-- perhaps a piece of the sky has already hit you on the head. If what you are saying is true, why bother to prepare? You cant stay in your hole forever, and people who are fat and happy will be eaten the first time they poke there head out. Does the possibilty exist? Remotely, yes. Is such a scenario likely? Hell no. If you live in the city, remember three important words-- pigeons, rats, and rainwater. In the country its roadkill, robins, and rainwater. Nutritious, and surprisingly delicious too!! Over, Charlie P.

-- Charlie P. (nospamforme@maybelater.com), February 27, 1999.

Number One nobody KNOWS what is going to happen so this post is purely one person's speculation.

Number two I heard the Senate's report about how this may be the worst crisis the United States has ever faced but let me ask you this...what exactly HAS BEEN the worst crisis the United States has ever faced? The WW's? The Great Depression? What?

-- (AES2010@aol.com), February 27, 1999.

I think the signs are leading us down the Y2K path to quite possibly the worst disaster that this country and many others will have ever encountered.

That doesn't include whatever happened to the dinosaurs.

-- Sign (poster@large.com), February 27, 1999.

What happens to all the people with HIV that need their daily medicine and can't get it?

What happens to people who need heart medication and can't get it?

What happens to people who need insulin and can't get it (or keep it cold)?

Yes, I fear lots of people are going to die and not from all the reasons listed above. Just from the sheer fact that they can't get their medication.

-- Sub-Mit (lurking@ofcourse.com), February 27, 1999.

Submit,

You have a very good point there. If you consider that the over-55 crowd is nearly 1/5th of the population, and that that age category is rather likely to get sick, that's a lot of possible deaths due to lack of medications, or lack or proper medical care.

My wife is a pharmacist, and she estimates that at least 1/3rd of the over-55 age bracket is on medications that they would die without. Or if not die quickly, become very sick, and therefore unable to live long.

Sure, you can stockpile medications to some extent, but for most people, it's not an option, as they live paycheck to paycheck, and their insurance generally won't cover stockpiling meds ahead of time (some do for 30-90 day supplies).

Good reason to look into natural herbs for healing. Most of the world still use them, and you can really help yourself this way.

I forsee that if the infrastructure collapses to the point that the farmers can't get fuel OR more seed for their crops, there will be famine. Farmers are pretty much totally dependent on seed companies for their seed (they are using hybrid seed), and a failure of the seed companies will cause mass starvation. Maybe not in 2000, but certainly in 2001.

Who the heck knows?

-- BIll (billclo@hotmail.com), February 27, 1999.

Nice work, apolcalypse@now.com... you're doing just as ordered, stirring up panic and spreading disinformation. When you get back here to Washington, I'll recommend you for a raise. Until then, post under several names so that the folks here don't get wise to the fact that you're a government agent.

-- alphabet (soup@agency.com), February 27, 1999.

You people forget the domino effect! Once all the domino's are down, how in the hell are they going to start up again all at once? That is what it is going to take folks, all at once or nothing at all!!! Why would one single company start up again and hire their employees back and produce a product that nobody has the money to buy and if it is a luxury product, nobody will want or need!!!

Face the plain facts folks, this will be a 10 year depression, like Ed Yourdon says and NOTHING LESS! Unless you prepare of a ten year depression, you too will fall like domino's. Why risk that eventual death of starvation?

Sell now what you don't need with a garage sale and buy as much BULK food as you can, while there is still bulk food available!! 3 to 4 MONTHS FROM NOW THE BULK FOOD WILL BE IMPOSSIBLE TO GET! DO IT NOW AND YOU WILL SURVIVE Y2K!!! ThaT MEanS YoU TOo DiETer!!!

-- Freddie the Freeloader (freddie@aol.com), February 27, 1999.

Freddie,

two points:

1. the domino effect only functions completely when the chain of dominoes is maintained. Since we already know that the chain is NOT going to be maintained (i.e. the some utilities will island from the grid, etc) all of the dominoes will not fall down. Note I'm not saying a lot of them wont...but I am saying that at least some of them will remain standing. How many, we don't know...none the less the chances of absolute TEOTW are very low here in the US.

2. The point that several of the other posters have been attempting to make is that the person who started this thread isn't accomplishing anything positive by jumping up and down and screaming - panic doesn't help anyone! measured, well thought out preparation is what is neccessary here. Nothing more nor less than that.

Arlin Adams

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), February 27, 1999.

apolcalypse, only 25%? Get real. If juice interruption trails into the planting season start thinking 90%. And it will be in all countries.

Thread on epidemics:

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000Y7H

Thread on Famine:

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000Xx6

I've been bringing this stuff up for a year and a half and I still find it amusing, the knee jerk reaction from the naysayers. It all is probabilities, preparing for probabilities, and the consequences of not being prepared for the probability that happens to your site specific reality bubble. Mass death is one of those subjects that most people just _will not_ consider as probable. It is quite funny, because we all die. Talk about mass death, heh, heh, heh, 100% is real mass death!

The issue of Mass Death due to y2k chain of events is very real and it brings up certain realities which should be planned for ahead of time. Disease, of course, accompanies large amounts of dead meat. So, thought needs to be given as to how to dispose of 4 Billion corpses world wide, all of whom have died in a timeframe of a year or two, or locally, disposal plans need to be considered for the dead in a small American town, or neighborhood, or larger city. Large amounts of dead meat will become a major environmental factor for the survivors, and resonses and needs will be different depending upon one's proximity to the equator or pole. Thought needs to be given ahead of time to ones own reaction that 1. I may be one of the dead. 2. I may be one who survives. Each requires some deep thought and soul searching.

btw, I'm still a 10, assuming I'm not going to be a survivor, and doing everything I can to make sure I survive and have some comforts too.

-- Mitchell Barnes (spanda@inreach.com), February 27, 1999.

Mitchel, you've hit the nail right on the head! It looks like you and I and just a handfull of others are accepting the fact that total chaos is lying ahead in 2000. It's funny that over 90% of those contributing to this Forum are still in DENIAL!!! They even talk about having cash and small change on hand in 2000. What they forget is that in 2000 there will be no money coming in, but there will also no money going out! You will be making NO housepayment, NO car payment, NO utility bill payment, etc. or any other kind of payment!

-- Freddie the Freeloader (freddie@aol.com), February 27, 1999.

Freddie,

You could help your case with newcomers if you said the probability of total chaos is greater than 0%. Total chaos in 2000 is not a fact. Unfortunately, it's much more possible than nothing happening at all...

-- Kevin (mixesmusic@worldnet.att.net), February 27, 1999.

What makes you certain of your prediction? Where are the facts?

I don't question that your prediction is possible (remotely, perhaps), but I simply don't see how you can be so sure. Are you privy to any secret information that I don't have? Come on, tell me.

Please don't interpret this message as a flame or flame bait; i'm sure you are a very responsible and intelligent person and all that jazz. But isn't it possible that you might be exaggerating a bit?

I am not sure of what's going to happen at all. I think a 7-8 on the Y2K "Richter Scale" is not only possible but likely. We would be very lucky to get by with a <5 impact...but a "10?" In the good old USA? Say what?

-- jc (joncarson@yahoo.com), February 27, 1999.

JC, Ed Yourdon predicts one year of disruptions and ten years of depression! What more do you need? If you do not react to his prediction, you as well as the majority on this bulletin board are IN DENIAL! You have a computer, go search the internet. There is plenty of proof of Ed Yourdon's predictions! To survive Y2K you MUST star preparing NOW. Do something EVERYDAY towards your survival and stop bickering on this site about proof of this and proof of that. In 2000 you will have plenty of proof! But too late to do something about it!!!

-- Freddie the Freeloader (freddie@aol.com), February 27, 1999.

Freddie,

Yes, people must start preparing now for Y2K. Yes, we should all do something everyday towards our survival.

My point is...I don't have to believe that total chaos in 2000 is a FACT to realize that it's wise to prepare for significant disruptions. Stating the probabilities as "fact" will turn many people off to your message.

In the meantime, let's all keep preparing!

-- Kevin (mixesmusic@worldnet.att.net), February 27, 1999.

Kevin, probabilities... Prep. What should we be doing to prepare ourselves for the possibility of MegaDeath. What should we be doing to prep for Epidemics.

Should not we be preparing for both events, in that each has a probablibity of happening? Should not these preparations include finding out when and for how long certain diseases can be transmitted and how to protect outselves? Finding out what the disease vectors are? Should't the prep include knowledge about the care of the terminally ill. Shouldn't we know how to quarantine? Shouldn't we have given thought to the collection and disposal of large numbers of dead bodies, giving a nod to a probability that the standard means may not be available?

Prep is not just about laying up some food water and shelter.

-- Mitchell Barnes (spanda@inreach.com), February 28, 1999.

Mitchell,

The odds of "the end of the world as we know it" happening are too large to ignore. Lives are definitely at risk. I agree with everything you're saying.

-- Kevin (mixesmusic@worldnet.att.net), February 28, 1999.

Mitchell, you're absolutely right, and there has been many discussions about what you mentioned that are in the archives, it's really worth browsing through it.

I started looking through the archives to bring up a few threads, but now my kids are yelling they want food...oops, it's dinner time ;-) Anyway, I came upon this link that Andy had given back in December that I think is excellent for ideas on what to stockpile.

http://backwoodsh ome.com/articles/clay55.html

-- Chris (catsy@pond.com), February 28, 1999.

"Where the corpses are, there the vultures will gather." "The living will envy the dead--as far as the eye can see bodies will litter the landscape." "I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered. Then I will turn my hand against the little ones. In all the land two/thirds will perish." "The day of the Lord is a day of doom." "And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!" "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be." Hey! This is sounding more like a Catholic prophesy forum every day!

-- Spidey (in@jam.com), March 01, 1999.