Will you get an Income Tax refund in 2000?

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Otto Skinner has that answer for you at www.goodbiz.com/tbks

A very important message that every one needs to check out!!!

-- Rambo (rambo@nokill.com), February 24, 1999


Okay, Rambo. This link has been put in thread after thread to the point of being SPAM. I am sick to death of it!!! Unless there is some new and "very important message" put on the page, please cease and desist. Really.

-- RUOK (RUOK@yesiam.om), February 25, 1999.

From what I know about the IRS and its remediation attempts, maybe the question should be about when people will get their refunds THIS year.

-- Kevin (mixesmusic@worldnet.att.net), February 25, 1999.

If there is any semblance of government next year I can see a flat tax, for simplicity's sake, being introduced.

I'm also making sure that I owe the IRS money in 2000 rather than the usual rebate cheque I usually get.

Kevin - hope I get that cheque THIS year :)

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), February 25, 1999.

Our Constitution tells us "No direct tax shall be laid" Why are you waiving your Constitutional Rights by paying a Tax that you are not required to pay? Check out Otto Skinners site and learn how you can sever your ties to the income tax scam. Check all the checks you paid to the IRS. On the back of each check the IRS endorsed it "Pay to the Federal Reserve Bank".They even send them your Social Un-Security checks!!! Your tax money is supposed to go to the US Treasury!!! Your Social Security payments are supposed to go to the Trust Fund! All Americans are being scammed when they pay income tax! Stop being "SHEEPLE"!!! INVESTIGATE!!! I HAVE NOT PAID THIS FRAUDULENT INCOME TAX SINCE 1979!!! I told the Tax Court in Washington,DC that they had no jurisdiction over me. THEY DISMISSED THE CASE FOR LACK OF JURISDICTION!!! Buy Otto Skinners book and learn how to escape the income tax scam! Our Government does not need your money! They can print up as much as they want! All the income tax is for is to decrease the money supply to prevent INFLATION!!! THATS ALL! WHEN YOU INVESTIGATE YOU WILL LEARN THAT I'M RIGHT! You are either a FREE AMERICAN OR YOU ARE A SHEEPLE!!! YOU CHOSE!!!!

-- Rambo (rambo@nokill.com), February 25, 1999.

Rambo is right. All you suckers out there will not get a Tax refund in 2000. That's guaranteed. Watch a huge exodus out of the tax system in 2000 by the self employed, who have control of what happens to their money. You better hurry and change your W-4 status, so you will be able to salvage some of your money. If you don't, you can kiss your over-payments goodbuy! I have Otto Skinners book. Well worth the money! Why pay you hard earned money to the Federal Reserve Bank? It is not even a Federal Bank! Check out the yellow pages and you will find them listed with all the other private banks! Check the next mailing you get from the IRS. You will discover that they pay postage on all their mail. All Goverment Agencies are supposed to get "free postage"!!! The IRS is nothing more than a Collection Agency for the Federal Reserve Bank! The IRS is not a Government Agency! They have no jurisdiction over you, if you just would challenge it. Stop waiving you 5th Amendmend Rights by signing you tax statement under Penalties of Perjury! The 5th says that you cannot be a witness against yourself! READ OTTO SKINNERS BOOK!!!

-- JF123456789 (jf123456789@anonymous.com), February 25, 1999.

These guys have hit the nail right on the head. We had an incident with the tax court which is located in Wash.DC. They only have jurisdiction in DC. That is why you will not find a tax court in any state of the union. If you don't live in DC. they simply have no jurisdiction over you. We also learned that little trick and stopped them dead in their tracsby challenging their jurisdiction. The only reason they take people's homes away from them without a court order, is because the sheeple let them. Challenge their jurisdiction and they will stop the take over of your home. They have no jurisdiction to look over your papers during an audit! Check out the IRS Agents cars. None of them have excempt license plates. Why not, you ask? Like the guys said, investigate! Buy this book they are telling you about. Either do it or stay a SLAVE!

-- Susan No More Tax. (Susan@wetnet.com), February 25, 1999.

Rambo, please stop your ignorant blather.

>Check all the checks you paid to the IRS. On the back of each check the IRS endorsed it "Pay to the Federal Reserve Bank". < snip > Your tax money is supposed to go to the US Treasury!!!

It _does_ go to the US Treasury.

The US Treasury has an account at the Federal Reserve Bank.

I have an account at the XYZ Bank.

When I receive a check payable to me, and I want to deposit it _in my account at XYZ Bank_, I write on the back of the check, "Pay to the order of XYZ Bank", followed by my signature. It's called an endorsement. It authorizes the bank on whom the check was drawn, let's say the ABC Bank, to transfer money from the account of the person who signed the check, J.Doe, to my account at XYZ Bank.

I know that may all seem too complicated to you, but perhaps the following statement of analogy will help someone else explain it to you:

1A) J.Doe writes check, with ABC Bank's name and routing code, and J. Doe's account number, payable to No Spam Please.

1B) Taxpayer writes check, with taxpayer's bank name and routine code, and taxpayer's account number, payable to U.S. Treasury (a division of the Government of the United States).

2A) J.Doe mails check to No Spam Please.

2B) Taxpayer mails check to IRS (a division of the Government of the United States, closely allied with the U.S. Treasury).

3A) No Spam Please endorses check from J.Doe by writing on its back "Pay to the order of XYZ Bank" and signature.

3B) IRS endorses check from taxpayer by writing on its back "Pay to order of Federal Reserve" (or similar wording).

4A) No Spam Please deposits check in No Spam Please's account at XYZ Bank.

4B) IRS deposits check in U.S. Treasury's account at Federal Reserve Bank.

5A), 5B), ...


Your tax money _does_ go to the U.S. Treasury.

Now, please stop misleading other people by writing ignorant stuff about the Federal Reserve, U.S. Treasury, IRS, and so forth.

-- No Spam Please (anon@ymous.com), February 25, 1999.

There will be no people in D.C. to compute your refund.

-- Scotty (BLehman202@aol.com), February 25, 1999.

Not so, NSP.

If you write "Pay to the order of John Doe" on the back of a check, with your signature, you are endorsing the check to John Doe, and when John Doe signs and deposits the funds, they will be credited to his account, not yours. Likewise, if the Treasury stamps "Pay to the order of the Federal Reserve" (rather than "the US Treasury") the funds will be credited to the Fed's account, not the Treasury's.

-- Elbow Grease (Elbow_Grease@AutoShop.com), February 25, 1999.

If sheeple can avoid the income tax why is it that the only thing the government got Al Capone on was "Income Tax Evasion"?

He went to jail because of "Income Tax Evasion"!

-- who (tax@notax.com), February 25, 1999.

Regarding why Al Capone or any citizen living and working in the 50 states gets nailed by the IRS.

The only statutory liability that exists for income tax is the ability of the withholding agent and the employer for withheld taxes. The "Withholding agent" is the only "person" required under the law to hold and pay income tax (on the earnings of foreigners). The employer withholds employment taxes.

No liability for tax is actually due to the US Treasury until the ACTUAL extent of that liability has been ASSESSED. Once a legal assessment has been executed THEN THE LIABILITY EXISTS, and the tax is due, and collection and enforcement actions may begin to secure and enforce payment.


Even if you misapply the law in your self-assessment, the figures you calculate in your assessment are binding in a court of law (dumb but true). If you ( a citizen of any of the states ) refuse to VOLUNTARILY assess yourself, THERE IS NO AUTHORITY IN THE LAW TO ASSESS INCOME TAXES except those "shown on returns" (see Sec. 6201. Assessment Authority), and there is no legal authority properly delegated to either prepare or execute a Form 1040 for a citizen without that citizen's explicit "consent".


For more information go to www.taxtruth4u.com

-- bigdeal (bigdeal@taxtruth4u.com), February 25, 1999.

Correction. I meant to say liability and not ability in my previous statement restated below. My apology. The statement should have read:

"The only statutory liability that exists for income tax is the liability of the withholding agent and the employer for withheld taxes."

Thank You

-- bigdeal (bigdeal@taxtruth4u.com), February 25, 1999.

Well, I didn't get one in 1996, 1997, 1998, nor do I expect one in 1999, so why the hell should I expect one in 2000?

-- Annie O'Dea (tarotmaid@yahoo.com), February 25, 1999.

IRS Warns of Y2K Glitches

[ For Educational Purposes Only ]

IRS Warns of Y2K Glitches
Agency Warns of Minor Problems, But No Meltdown

Erich Luening, CNET NEWS.COM

Taxpayers may soon feel the bite of the Y2K bug.

Internal Revenue Service officials warned yesterday that taxpayers may encounter annoying computer flaws this year and next because of the Year 2000 technology problem.

Speaking before the House Ways and Means Committee, administration officials, along with IRS and other government officials, described the impact on taxpayers and beneficiaries.

The most startling warning came from commissioner Charles Rossotti, who explained that even though the IRS is confident there will be no systemwide meltdown, there may be some localized problems, according to a report in today's Wall Street Journal.

The commissioner said that his department has made major strides in fighting the Y2K computer bug, and that the overall picture is "generally positive." Nevertheless, he added, "there is still a great deal of risk and some trouble spots," and that the next 90 days "represent the riskiest period."

When asked about his use of such strong language, he said, "We want to be realistic. We do still have risks because we have all these different changes that have been made -- $1 billion worth of changes. No matter how well you test, you can't find everything," the commissioner said.

The IRS commissioner also said the agency has already set up contingency plans to detect and respond to any problems that occur.
.... [snip]
At yesterday's hearing, other government officials supported Rossotti's claims that there won't be nationwide system failures in industries, just local inconveniences.

This "local" euphemism always cracks us up. Duh, if *anything* happens, of course it will happen locally. Even a meteor hits "locally."

If everybody in the USA gets a tax bill for $5,325,883,999,898.99, that will hit everybody locally, at their kitchen table, and more specifically, hunched over the loo. Very local impact. All the Y2K disruptions will happen locally, everywhere.

Even an atomic bomb or nuclear war -- each person will melt down locally, wherever they happen to be standing. Duh. Loco Local -- give us a break; all the sheeple will not be assured and kept anesthetized by LOCAL euphemisms!

xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), February 25, 1999.

Note that if YOUR software messed up and underestimated your taxes, that would not be an "annoying" incident. That would be a offense, fraud, worthy of penalties, interest and audits.

-- Lisa (lisa@work.now), February 25, 1999.

RUOK: I "confess" to being the "spammer" in previous posts. It may be old, but it's still important. You obviously think like the public and the newspapers; i.e., if it's more than two days old, it's unimportant.

No Spam: You can argue this point, but as far as Otto is concerned, it's immaterial. The important point is that the IRS with the help of the establishment media, the lawyers (officers of the court -- FIRST duty is to the court, not their clients), the CPAs, and parasites like H.R.Block, has bamboozled the public into thinking that they owe an income tax. This is fraud, and they use coercion to try to enforce their fraud.

All: Check out http://goodbiz.com/tbks/ and buy the book and make up your own mind. The price of the book is a small fraction of what you can save. And, wouldn't that extra $ come in handy for Y2K prep?

-- A (A@AisA.com), February 25, 1999.

I may be wrong, but it seems to me that "No Spam" responds to all questioning of governments' actions and legitimacy with slavish, vigorous defense of government. Not only just re this IRS post.

-- a (A@AisA.com), February 25, 1999.

Refund? I haven't gotten a refund in years.

-- wait until 4/15 to file because (no@refund.here), February 25, 1999.

My son got his refund yesterday. It was $662. He is upping his deductions for next year. :-)

-- Gayla Dunbar (privacy@please.com), February 25, 1999.

Working for a Living is not a revenue taxable activity. Labor is property, so says the Supreme Court in the Butchers Union Case and the Dauberger case says property is not the subject of the (California) Income tax and New Method Laundry case in California also says labor is property. For citations to all these cases visit http://www.telesouth1.com/~krcohen/nrevenue.htm.

-- Kedar R. Cohen (krcohen@telesouth1.com), March 03, 1999.

Sometimes looking like a sheeple is not such a bad thing. It's called 'keeping a low profile'. I REALLY don't want to spend 1/1/2000 in the low security in Atlanta. Nor do I want a wife named 'Gus' or 'Harold'. Since I figure the IRS has about 9 1/2 months to live, I'll continue to pay my taxes for now. Lobo

-- Lobo (Hiding@woods.com), March 04, 1999.

Gayla - check your logic there - if he received such a large refund this year - and next year is so very likely to so terribly confusing that refunds are improbable at best, delayed at best - isn't it better that he plan things this year so that he owes a little (50 - 75.00) payable in March or April, than waits until July-Aug- Sept to get a bigger check back from the IRS next year?

If he increases deductions this year, they withhold more, the fed's get his money (interest free) for a longer time next year - possible forever - and he is left with less now to use for planning. It would appear he would be better to (as I am) reduce his deductions, and taking his money this year. When he can use it for something worthwhile.

-- Robert A. Cook, P.E. (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), March 04, 1999.

Hi to Gayla, Kevin and Robert:

Take Robert's advice....I did. This year we got back 'big bucks' due to buying a house in the city (opps oh my oh well) I beat feet to the electronic file dude paid 35.00 to e-file and begged my sis to do the same, she did not, but mailed hers. She asked it to go direct depo as we did also. BUT>>>> we got ours in less than two weeks (gone in and out paid off debt) she on the other hand is STILL waiting..You are right Kevin..I e-filed on 2-2 or 2-4 cant remember exact date thank God I did. The state check took longer. Almost 4 weeks direct depo but cant be e-filed. At the beginning of this year I asked hubby to raise the deductions, he did. Mo money, buy stuff, stash for "if" owed next year...I totally agree with changing deductions. As for not paying uncle sam, I WAS married to a man who did NOT file for 3 years, what a mess. DONT tell me they cant get my money, by golly they did. It wasnt even my bill, but being married, I helped him. Bottom line,,,,,,take Roberts advice.

-- consumer (private@aol.com), March 04, 1999.

Robert, you've got me confused!! The more deductions you claim, the LESS they take out. I'm talking about the W2. My son has been claiming Single "0" and is changing that to Single "1".

-- Gayla Dunbar (privacy@please.com), March 04, 1999.

Rambo: i checked your link, and it seemed like information that definately bears further looking into, if only for curiosity sake. You state that you haven't paid taxes since 1979. Could you also post more information. How did you go about doing this. What has been the repercussions, to you personally. Do you work in a regular job, or underground. Have you been able to own property? If you live a 'normal' life, with regular job, etc. what did you have to go through to keep the system from taking everything, or at least bleeding you dry defending them? Thanks.

-- Damian Solorzano (oggy1@webtv.net), March 05, 1999.

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