Y2K, in and of itself, isn't going to be as big a problem as it's being made out to be. What IS going to be a problem is Y2K panic. Does anyone here truly believe that the controllers, the handlers, the powers-that-be, call them what you will, are so stupid as to have allowed such a problem to appear without their being aware of it? Don't you think it possible that the problem was CREATED by them, for their own purposes and ends?

It's been apparent for some time that the power elite regard with disdain the freedoms we enjoy here in America. While they are proceeding in their efforts to simultaneously disarm and discourage us, they know full well that any overt attempt to strip us of our liberty would be met with a massive uprising which they would ultimately lose. What they have needed is a method that would result in the average American freely relinquishing his or her rights guaranteed by the Constitution and Bill of Rights. It appears that they may have found their "silver bullet" in the Y2K phenomenon.

Were I the elite, I would prey upon Millenium fears, but raise the stakes much higher. I would send my agents of change into the field to spread the word that there was a problem with the rollover date of 1/1/2000, as well as related dates. I would further direct my agents to promulgate the idea that this problem was so huge and all-encompassing that it would possibly result in the end of technological civilization. Such a premise, on its face value alone, would likely be rejected out-of-hand by most intelligent people. This would necessitate formation of a disinformation group that would act as a foil to the government's apparent lack of action on the problem. Said group would appear to be the Paul Reveres of the late 1990's, spreading the Y2K gospel while accusing the government of alternately stonewalling and doing nothing, or preparing for a massive crackdown on the American people to maintain its control in a post-Y2K world. Since following the Hegelian dialectic requires that one control both sides of the discussion, I would arrange for the government to react in opposite polarity to the disinformation group's actions at a given time.

This is exactly what is occurring. The elite desires an outcome that results in greater wealth and control for them, and a destruction of freedom for the American people. This will come about when the general public has been propagandized to the point at which they feel that they will be personally affected unless they too withdraw all their funds from the banks. The resulting runs, along with possible food and fuel shortages (also manipulated by the elite), will engender a anarchic state of affairs. If these events are not sufficiently chaotic, power outages and other disasters will be engineered as needed to further aggravate the situation. The elite is counting on the situation coming to such a pass that the average American will be literally screaming for his rights to be taken away by a regime, so that he can feed his family and go about life's business umnmolested. At that point. the elites will gladly comply, and the shackles will be fastened upon us at our own request.

The point can be made that, whether Y2K occurs or not, that disruptions will occur due to the machinations of the elite. It is important to prepare, as it is almost certain that we are facing a rough road ahead. However, it is equally important, in the course of spreading the message to prepare, that we also disseminate to all the real purposes and forces at work behind Y2K.

-- youare (being@used.com), February 22, 1999

Answers

Apparently, God has now spoken.

-- Steve Hartsman (hartsman@ticon.net), February 22, 1999.

Thank you Steve, you've proven a point. Don't refute the post, attack the poster instead. Old socialist tactic. Nicely done.

-- youare (being@used.com), February 22, 1999.

I do not mean to sound disrespectful as I am sure you have researched this problem enough now to be entitled to your own opinion and I am sure that you have information to back up your statement, however, I myself need facts and as of yet I have not found any that reassure me enough. I am hopeful that mob mentality does not set in over the entire world but it does seem to be headed in that direction. So for whatever reasoning there is behind all of this, I will be prepared for the worst. I could not live with myself if I knew that I was warned and did nothing to ensure the safety of my children.

-- shellie (shellie01@hotmail.com), February 22, 1999.

*yawn* yet another conspiracy theory. Some people can't seem to understand that not all accidents are intentional. How many people marry with the intention of later divorce? Great fortunes will undoubted be lost in this mess, and who but the elite have such fortunes anyway? y2k bugs were simply something that until very recently were far less important that too many other pressing needs. These bugs were the victim of what's been called the Tyranny of the Urgent; something it was always more cost effective to postpone.

But never ascribe to malice what can be explained by incompetence.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), February 22, 1999.

STEVE!!!!! Will it huRt your feeLings if dIetre agRees with yOu?????

TO ThE POSTER!!!!! dieteR WILL NOT Attack you!!!!! it is yOur THINKING THaT IS FOOLISH!!!!! DIETER DOES Not think thAt THE AGEnTS OF "THE eliTe" COuLD do as yOu INSIST!!!!! wHY???? BECaUSE DIEtER WAS IN the saMe ruBBer room wITH MANY OF THeM!!!!! THEY ARgUE AND BIckER AS MUCH AS THE FooLS HERE DO!!!!! CAN YoU SAY back sTab?????? SILEnCE NOW!!!!WOuLD IT HELP YoU TO SEE DiEters docTor?????

-- Dieter (questions@toask.com), February 22, 1999.

You're doing the right thing, Shellie. The powers-that-be are counting on panic. The more that are prepared, the less panic. Maybe I didn't emphasize that enough in my original post, but it is vital that we prepare. It is just as vital to understand the many ways that people can be manipulated into slavery.

-- youare (being@used.com), February 22, 1999.

hmm, okay, first off let's see your proof that "y2k in and of itself isn't going to be as big a problem as it's being made out to be."

The reason I say this, is that your entire argument hinges on this point, and unless you can prove it, the rest of the discussion is just hyperbole.

Arlin

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), February 22, 1999.

Come on, boy. Do your homework. If you knew enough about Y2K to be a pimple on Steve's butt, you'd know that NOBODY could have planned it. It evolved over decades, and that in itself is the crux of the problem. As to our Governments' ability to run a skam of this magnatude, well, you've obviously never worked for an agency. I have, and the only conspiracy I ever took notice of was one of pervasive and consumptive incompetence. Of course we are all concerned about the wild card of social reaction. But if I thought The Government was pulling my Y2k strings, I would turn off this damn computer and go take a nap right now. In fact, that doesn't sound like a bad idea anyway.

Sorry for the harsh tone, but I am the resident curmudgeon, after all.

-- Lon Frank (postit@here.com), February 22, 1999.

youare, Yes people can be manipulated into slavery, I think that same thought every day when my charge nurse insists I do just one more thing before I go home. All the while he's hanging my three month over due evaluation over my head. I think you make a good point (as long as you agree with me on the prepare thing) ;)

-- shellie (shellie01@hotmail.com), February 22, 1999.

youare:

Yup, it's the Y2K panic which I dread -- too many rednecks with guns around these woodlands. When the mass panic prevails, I'll dress in my worst clothes and stop bathing long enough for them to sniff me over and move on. ;)

-- dinosaur (dinosaur@williams-net.com), February 22, 1999.

Arlin: I was wondering the same thing, and if you assume the premise, the next question is the "who" - Who are these folks - "The elites"?

youare?

-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), February 22, 1999.

I see no need to offer proof, Arlin. I've satisfied myself through research that the scenario above is fairly close to the situation as it exists. Further, I've been monitoring this forunm for several weeks, and feel that there is no proof, however well-researched and grounded in logic, that will affect the opinions of the majority here who feel that Y2K will be the end of civilization, or the next thing to it. I'm a "GI", to ust your term, it's just that what I "get" differs in viewpoint from what the majority here "get".

-- youare (being@used.com), February 22, 1999.

Youare,

I disagree on one point. The bug is real. I've changed enough lines of code in the last 3 years to know. Regarding the elite, think 'opportunism' on their part.

-- RB (R@AR.COM), February 22, 1999.

Panic will only inflict those that haven't prepared and have no way of escape. Panic will cause more deaths and destruction than anything else. For those of you standing on the line, you still have time to take a few steps back and go the other way to safety. You have nothing to lose but everything to gain. If life is not important to you, then by all means, step over the line to eternity.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), February 22, 1999.

Rob, the elites are the "men in the shadows", the Black Nobility, the international bankers, the Papacy, British Israelism, French Fremasonry... the people who set up Hitler, then cut him down... brought this country into two World Wars... have involved us in "police actions" worldwide, with U.S. taxpayers footing the bill... who decide which men will be presented for high office, and then decide who among them shall be 'elected'...shall I go on or should you just order the book? :)

-- youare (being@used.com), February 22, 1999.

yep, just as I thought, no proof.

here's the deal, at least as far as I'm concerned. Unless and until you can provide convincing evidence to support your fundamental assertion I will not only continue to prepare, but also continue to urge others to prepare and help those who are doing so. This preparation includes firearms instruction, and instructions in survival techniques. The intent being to preclude any attempt by those seeking power to sieze it through the timeframe of the rollover.

I'm taking effective action. what are you doing?

Arlin

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), February 22, 1999.

RB, I do not doubt that the bug is real. However, I consider its possible effects to be overstated for ulterior motives. Whether or not they created it, they have built upon it. Opportunistic, indeed.

Flint, in politics, nothing ever happens by accident.

-- youare (being@used.com), February 22, 1999.

jacobites again?!?! OH PUHLEEZE!!

Chuck 3rd, 32nd, etc

-- Chuck, night driver (rienzoo@en.com), February 22, 1999.

you are - your post is hilarious. Just what we need, a little bit of dark satire to get us through theses dark times.

If on the other hand, you're actually serious....BWAHahHhHAAAAa etc. Maybe you've read too much Hegel and that is why your post makes no sense at all. The Powers that Be are often smarter than you or me (even) but that doesn't make them omniscient. Problems sneak up and bite them on the arse all the time. This time it's just a mega-problem. I don't think it is possible that the problem was caused by "them", 1, because the known history of the problem says otherwise, and 2, why the hell would they create and nurture a problem that most directly threatens the institutions that give them their power....It's all very well to be a Bilderburger or the well-groomed man, wielding immense power, but without governments, banks and corporations to do your bidding your just another average guy without influence.

" I would further direct my agents to promulgate the idea that this problem was so huge and all-encompassing that it would possibly result in the end of technological civilization."......duh, gee, maybe yourdonites oughta call Langley or Brussels, and ask when the cheque is gonna clear.

Powerful people are certainly going to make plays around y2k events, but to pretend that all power is weilded secretly and monolithically is the kind of unsubtle cluelessness that gives conspiritorial thought it's bad name.

-- humptydumpty (no.6@thevillage.com), February 22, 1999.

Let's see now. Back in the days of vacuum tube computers, prescient members of the elite foresaw that transistors would be invented, and then integrated ciruits would be invented, and then computers would become so cheap and so widely used, that just in time manufacturing would be invented, etc, etc.

So, those exceptionally prescient elitists decided subliminaly to plant in the minds of the programmers of that era that they should use two digit years in their programs instead of four digit years.

Of course! How blind of us not to have seen that all along!

Now about that bridge; I can get you a really good price.

Jerry

-- Jerry B (skeptic76@erols.com), February 22, 1999.

Arlin, you react rather than respond. Wasn't it clear that I urge everyone to prepare? I wrote above: "It is important to prepare, as it is almost certain that we are facing a rough road ahead." Look in the last paragraph, there it is. I assure you that actions I've taken are at least as effective as yours.

-- youare (being@used.com), February 22, 1999.

youare: Thank You. No, no need to go on. I am well acquainted with the "who". (you did not mention the Fabians, or did you feel that you had given enough of an answer?) Anyway, I have done a bit of reading over the years myself. Just for clarification, are you of the opinion that the elites are 'simply' using Y2K for there own agenda, or do you feel that they caused it from the beginning - I have heard both.

-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), February 22, 1999.

Glad you got a chuckle out of it, humptydumpty. Continue napping.

Chuck, I've admired your satire from afar, thanks for sharing it with me personally. I'm honored.

-- youare (being@used.com), February 22, 1999.

Rob, I do not know. My feeling is that it was not noticed as a problem by them at first, but that sometime in the mid-to-late 1980's they decided to capitalize on it, rather than correct it. At that point, they efforts may have directed at stifling attempts at remediation.

Did indeed did I forget Fabian socialism.... "Make haste slowly." How careless of me, I deserve a ride on the back of a turtle for that.

-- youare (being@used.com), February 22, 1999.

youare: Are you familiar with Nathan Rothchild's qoute about "he who controls the money", or read "The Upcoming Battle". I mention this becasue if you accpet the premise of the elites control over us for almost all of this century (1913), and you follow their 'progress', then there comes the realization that they already control things, and have done so, for this entire period, and throughout much of the world, with the exceptions of China and Islam. Some are of the opinion that the struggle for final dominance will be against one, and eventually both.

One point I would like to make is that panic is inherently uncontrollable, and they are fallable - also, there is always what the authoress Taylor Caldwell callled "the imponderables of the peoples conscious". There is a difference between a plan, even a carefully laid one, and subsequent reality.

-- Rob Michaels (sonfodust@net.com), February 22, 1999.

I have a novel suggestion.

I propose that each of us here solemnly resolve to let other people be wrong. Let me be the first to do so:

To whom it may concern, whoever you may be:

Please note: you have my permission to be wrong, as wrong as you want, for as long as you want. At one stroke this will cut the volume of posts in this forum by half. And reduce incivility here by 85%. At the same time it allows all manner of opinions to be expressed, and information to be exchanged.

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), February 22, 1999.

MR CAREY!!!!! WHErE WOuLD THAT LEAvE DieTer????? WHaT LEvEL OF FOOLISHNESS SHouLD BE TOLeRATeD?????

PS, DIeTER VERY MuCH ENJoyed your wOrK in ACE VENTURA, PeT DETectIVE!!!! YOu ARE A geniUs!!!!

-- Dieter (questions@toask.com), February 23, 1999.

Well said, rob, I cannot gainsay you. The elites do not have a lock on this, by any means. I believe Rothschild's quote was, "Give me control over a nation's money, and I care not who writes the laws."

Have a good evening, past my bedtime. Enjoyed it.

-- youare (being@used.com), February 23, 1999.

youare: Past mine too. Also enjoyed it. Night. BFN, Rob

-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), February 23, 1999.

Hi youare. So, how long have you been hanging out at Gary North's site? Hell, you may even be Gary. I've been a computer pro for 31 years, and could give you a very detailed technical description of the Y2K problem, but I think it would be a waste of time. Now I don't disagree that the "elite" may take advantage of the situation, but to say that they created the problem is just non-sense. Good luck, this is a tough crowd. <:)=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), February 23, 1999.

I think the general thrust of you are's argument is on the money - certainly his knowledge of the engineering of wars and profiting from then is spot on. It amuses me that some of you, humpty for example, can discount the notion that this could have happened and is now happening, so easily.

Just read between the lines of what's going on now - we are obviously being set up for a fall. You are is totally correct. The y2k problem IS VERY REAL, but it is THE PERFECT TROJAN HORSE for the elite to achieve their objectives.

Think about it - if my and you are's theories are correct - disruptions caused by y2k will enable draconian new powers and laws to be usherred in WITH THE APPROVAL AND DESIRE OF THE POPULACE (due to the Problem/Reaction/Solution game) - if the y2k disruptions are milder than necessary to achieve their objectives it would be fairly simple to simulate massive y2k breakdowns by subtly hitting major routers and hubs and infrastructure control centres (banking, electricity, satellites etc.)... Far fetched??? Depends on your point of view, most people will think this is ludicrous and I am a complete whacko - a few will realise that this is eminently possible and just one of a number of highly likely possibilities if their agenda is going to play out. their plan is not totally set in stone, the overall direction is there, the details will play out on the fly I'm sure.

I've posted recently about PROBLEM === REACTION === SOLUTION and this will be played out to the hilt in the next two years.

And as for discounting that a decision could have been made all those years ago that would lead to the problem we are facing now, again I've posted on this recently too, emphasising the point raised in the Vanity Fair article that despite the recommendations of a renowned committee of computer experts in the 60's, the Pentagon, after 3 years of wrangling, INSISTED on the 2 digit date standard. Far fetched, yes. But these people are NOT stupid, they think extremely long term and inter generationally. Unlikely, yes, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was an "educated" decision, just as all their other nachinations have worked so well in the 20th Century.

Anyway, I believe the code problem is now so serious that "they" will not need to exacerbate it further, it will be plenty bad enough for them to play on it's fallout effects.

"Y2K: Incompetence or Genius?"

This article was written in January of 1999

"The people who run the world are NOT stupid. Start from that basis and so much falls into place.

OK, Ill grant you, many of them appear to be stupid and some of their underlings are employed primarily because they are incompetent at what they do. But thats the idea. There is no more affective way of advancing a hidden agenda than to persuade people that those making the key decisions are idiots and to have a few genuine ones around helps this myth to no end. But those who are really in control are NOT stupid. No, no no.

I can give you a wonderful example of that from Europe. Some years ago the media was full of stories about the "beef mountains", "butter mountains", "grain mountains" and "wine lakes". These were the vast stockpiles of food and wine caused by massive overproduction by farmers in the European community (now Union) which could not be sold. The bureaucrats of Brussels were condemned as incompetent and stupid and therefore the true agenda was obscured. Now look at what was really happening:

The farmers overproduced because the bureaucrats said they would buy (the taxpayer would buy) whatever they produced at an agreed price no matter what. The farmers were enticed into this trap by greed and naiveti. It is amazing how naove people can become when they see dollar signs before their eyes. The next stage was to encourage public hostility to the food mountains and the policy that was making farming a license to print money.

In "response" to this "public concern", the same bureaucrats changed the policy and stopped the no-questions-asked subsidies. Now the smaller farmers were faced with vastly reduced subsidies and the need to sell their produce on the "open market  a market in which prices had plummeted because of the surpluses all across Europe caused by bureaucrats policies. So what happened? Enormous numbers of smaller farmers went out of business. And what was the result of that? The major transnational corporations moved in, bought their farms at knockdown prices or allowed them to disappear, and the grip on world food production from soil to plate was increased dramatically.

But people didnt see that agenda. They saw what they thought was incompetence. Which brings me to Y2K.

There are only two digits on most computerized systems to count the passing of the years. 1999 to a computer is 99. This means that when they click to the year 2000, the computer will register 00. The question then arises; will the computer take this to be the year 2000 or the year 1900? If it picks 1900 the system it controls will fail, be it energy, banking, whatever. Does anyone believe that such lack of foresight, given the possible consequences, was just incompetence? Well, heres one who doesnt for a start.

I have written in my books and emphasized in my talks the technique I call problem-reaction-solution. This is when you covertly create a problem and blame someone else for it. You then encourage people to demand that "something must be done" about the problem and this gives you the opportunity to offer the solution  the policy you wanted to introduce all along.

This is why chaos is a wonderful means of control, indeed essential to it on a mass scale. Chaos always divides people (every man for himself) and chaos always leads to a demand to restore order  "something must be done". It is not without reason that the Freemasonic motto "Ordo Ab Chao" translates as order out of chaos. In other wordsproblem, reaction, solution.

The agenda for the Millenium years is to introduce a world government, central bank, currency, army, and a micro chipped population linked to a global computer. Anyone with an activated brain cell can see this unfolding before our eyes every day. However, if you want the quick road to this global fascist structure, you need a massive global problem (global chaos) to which you can offer a global solution. And nothing fits the bill better than a collapse of the computer system on which the world economy and daily life now depends (on purpose).

It really doesnt matter if the effects of Y2K are as bad as we are led to believe with power failures, food shortages, money chaos, and the like, or whether they are being overblown. The fact is that the Y2K propaganda means they have an excuse to collapse the computer system which people will accept is the result of Y2K, whether it is or not. The collapse of the money system and the value of currencies will open the way to a global electronic currency to solve the "problem". The chaos will "justify" the imposition of global marshall law and rule by the military.

If you think thats far fetched I can tell you that every country I have been to recently, including the UK, Australia, and the United States, is officially talking about the need to have troops on the streets in the wake of the Y2K computer collapse. And what happens when you introduce marshall law or a state of emergency? All freedoms (what is left of them) are suspended. Let me give you the example of the United States and if you look you will see the same situation is true of your own country. It certainly is of the United Kingdom.

Most Americans dont realize that the US has been officially in a state of emergency since March 9th, 1933, when it was introduced by the puppet president (and they all are), Franklin Delano Roosevelt. This state of emergency, justified by a manipulated financial "crisis" has never been revoked and in truth, the Constitution of the United States has been suspended since then. This has allowed endless anti-constitutional policies to be introduced quite legally. But, of course, the global hierarchy I call the Brotherhood does not want to use this situation openly because the scam will be exposed. Instead they are planning to create chaos to justify the official introduction of a state of emergency and Y2K fits the bill perfectly.

When the state of emergency is announced by the President (or rather those who control him) a series of Executive Orders are activated into law. Executive Orders are whenever there is a state of national emergency. In truth, they have been law from the moment they were written. Since March 9th, 1933.

George Washington signed the first Executive Order or "EO" in 1789 and they were consolidated as one by President Clinton on June 3rd, 1994 as Executive Order 12919. Here are just a few of the powers that will become law when the Y2K "state of emergency" is introduced:

EO 10995: Allows the President to "amend, modify or revoke frequency assignments". In other words to take control of all radio, television, and telecommunications.

EO 10997: Gives the executive government the right to take over all energy production and distribution, including electrical power, fuel for transport, solid fuels and minerals.

EO 10998: Puts all food resources under the control of the Secretary of Agriculture

EO 10999: Gives the control over ALL transportation, public and private, to the Secretary of Commerce

EO 11000 Wait for this one. It gives power to the government to dictate where people will live, where they will work, and what they are paid  if anything. Families can be broken up, quite legally and children taken from their parents with no legal appeal possible for at least six months.

EO 11002 Allows FEMA, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, to order the registration of all citizens to control their movement and relocation. FEMA itself was created by an Executive Order (12148) signed by President Carter.

FEMA also controls the establishment and administration of concentration camps, yes concentration camps, across the United States where the dissidents will be taken unless we wake up fast. Videos of these places exist. This puts into perspective the statement by General Frank Salzedo, FEMAs former civil security chief, who said that FEMAs responsibility included the "prevention of dissident groups from gaining access to US opinion or a global audience in times of crisis".

When the state of emergency is introduced, the power of Congress, what there is of it, will be suspended and they cannot overturn or challenge any of these Executive Orders for at least six months after they become laws. By which time there would be no Congress. If you dont live in the United States, that doesnt matter. Your country will have exactly the same laws waiting for a national emergency to activate them. And who decides what is a national emergency? The very people who created the laws.

Ladies and gentlemen. This is no longer some prediction for the future. We are on the brink of this now. It is happening around you and we all have a choice. We can sit around and continue to be victims of this global agenda or we can get off our arse, stand up and be counted.

We have the opportunity in the next 18 months to change the world or be imprisoned by it. It is a crossroads, a turning point, we are being offered here in our eternal journey to true love and enlightenment. Are we going to go quietly into mental, emotional, and physical enslavement? Or are we going to open our lungs and scream

FRRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE DDDDOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM?

I know what I am going to do. Excuse me while I take a very deep breath."

David Icke, January 1999

Link at

http://www.davidicke.com/y2k.asp

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), February 23, 1999.

I suspect Y2K is the result of short-term thinking. Not NWO thinking. Sorry. Sheer stupidity gets my vote. Peter principal and all.

Yes, some of the hidden types are likely planning all kinds of marvelous stuff, and clearly have been for some time. Even the best laid plans oft go awry. Y2K will likely bite many in the ASCII.

However, it is wise to ... Expect the Unexpected.

That goes for them too. Theres more than one hidden force operating behind-the-scenes. In that I trust.

(BTW, youare (being@used.com) is NOT unexpected. Also sounds a lot like AE...)

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), February 23, 1999.

"My feeling is that it was not noticed as a problem by them at first, but that sometime in the mid-to-late 1980's they decided to capitalize on it, rather than correct it. At that point, they efforts may have directed at stifling attempts at remediation. "

Now there, youare is sounding a bit more plausible than here...

" Don't you think it possible that the problem was CREATED by them, for their own purposes and ends? "

..but not by much.

As for me "napping" with regard to such issues....well, day by day when I try to explain y2k to acquaintances they mostly dis me because I'm a known "conspiracy nut". Maybe if I hadn't tried to explain Rothschilds and Rockerfellers and Reticulans to them then they might give me a hearing when I try to explain the relatively mundane facts about J.I.T., fractional reserves and supply chains. So maybe because of this I've got an anti-teleological bee in my bonnet lately. But. The "elite" are not monolithic. Why would they each go along a "plan" that so clearly threatens their own power and wealth. Sure, they're often addicted to the accumulation of wealth and power, but why would they bet the farm for only a slightly bigger farm.

"However, I consider its possible effects to be overstated for ulterior motives. Whether or not they created it, they have built upon it. Opportunistic, indeed." The usual "ulterior motives" attributed to us are financial gain and desire to create panic. Now we're unwitting stooges of the "Black Nobility" - gosh! Perhaps we should get t-shirts printed up or something.

I'm dubious of anyone who claims to have discerned THE big picture regarding secret, behind the scenes machinations of the world's movers and shakers. Not that I deny that there is such a big picture, but it would take more than assertions to convince me. Bad conspiritology is the worst of the worst, because it clouds what is a very difficult area of study.

"However, it is equally important, in the course of spreading the message to prepare, that we also disseminate to all the real purposes and forces at work behind Y2K."

This is a dumbass statement if ever I heard one. We often find ourselves teetering at the edge of credibilty when trying to present the complicated and obscure facts that one needs to know in order to comprehend y2k so as to be committed to preparations. To finish one's spiel by saying "oh, and by the way, the whole thing was orchestrated by David and Nathan and George and Henry and Maurice and John Paul and Zbigniew and Fahd and Elizabeth and Yuri and Deng" would, I'm guessing, be counter-productive.

-- humptydumpty (no.6@thevillage.com), February 23, 1999.

Sysman, I am not Gary North. I believe Gary North to be a change agent allied with the elite power structure, and doing their bidding.

Diane, I am not AES2010, if that is who you are referring to.

Excellent post, Andy, as I've come to expect from you. I doubt that more than a handful of the group here have taken the trouble to visit the David Ickes website you mention. Shame, as it would clear up a lot of what's being discussed here.

Tom is righ. We must strive to keep things on a friendly basis. If I have been sharp in some of my replies, I apologize.

Humpty, I now realize that I was unclear when I stated that the elite had created the problem. Let me clarify: I feel that they have created a response to the problem which will be much worse than the actual problem itself.

-- youare (being@fooled.com), February 23, 1999.

Who the heck is David Icke? I found this at http://www.leadingedgenews.com/icke.htm

DAVID ICKE OFFERS SPIRITUAL ANSWERS TO GLOBAL CONSPIRACIES

An Exclusive American Interview With This Controversial Author

...Interviewed By Kenneth and Dee Burke

David Icke was a professional soccer player for Coventry City and later for Hereford before rheumatoid arthritis forced him to quit at the age of 21. He turned to journalism and then to television, becoming a sports correspondent on BBC 2's "Newsnight" and contributing regularly to BBCI's "Grandstand." He went on to become a national spokesman for Britains's Green Party before a visit to a medium and healer set him on the journey of discovery which was to change his life. Having written several books, including The Robot's Rebellion, Truth Vibrations, and Heal the World David talks about a newer book, ...and the truth shall set you free..., which reveals the esoteric background to (what is called) the global conspiracy and offers an inspiring spiritual solution in which David believes that every man, woman and child can break free from daily programming and take back their power to decide their own destiny. David refers to this latter book as, "the most explosive book of the 20th century."

. . .

LE: David, tell us about ...and the truth shall set you free...

David: Yes. It's about 500 pages of documented information which fits together many things that appear to be independent of each other...and shows how the same few people actually pull the strings of all of them. And, at the same time, it looks at the spiritual solutions because the very strong point that I'm making is that the conspiratorial and the spiritual are not isolated. They're not independent. They are a reflection of each other. I'm a great believer in the idea that we create our own reality. I think we put out a magnetic pulse, a magnetic vibration like a broadcast, which is unique to us. It reflects exactly our sense of reality and our sense of self. I feel that this magnetic broadcast then attracts to it other magnetic fields (people, places, ways of life, experiences) which create, in effect an exact physical replica of our subconscious mind in front of our eyes. I think that all the people and experiences, the things we attract into our lives, are actually reflecting back as part of us.

-- WHOis (being@used?.com), February 23, 1999.

And your point is? (WHOisbeingused)

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), February 23, 1999.

I wonder why only the long time posters on this forum, on this topic seem to agree with parts of youare's theory. Looks like Robert Cook, Andy, bardou and Diane are posting the same theorys that I have on this topic. I don't think anyone of these posters have rubbed off on the other. I am who I was 15 years ago. Things are finally playing out the way I feared they would. I used to be called paranoid. Today my father called and asked me if I had heard about "Know your Customer". I said, "dad i was screaming this crap 15 years ago now everyones paranoid and I'm setting back laughing and feeling redeemed."

May GODS Will Be Done

Mike

P.S. Thanks for the thread topic youare.

-- flierdude (mkessler0101@sprynet.com), February 23, 1999.

If widespread Y2K panic occurs, it will be brought about in large part by the confused and conflicting messages coming from our leaders, ersatz experts and to some extent the press about what the Y2K problem will do to our technological infrastructure. Maybe its a conspiracy but its probably just complete incompetence. There is not much that generates more feelings of fear and insecurity than uncertainty about ones future. Yet almost every story on the millennium bug includes a quote from a governmental official or IT professional reinforcing that uncertainty. In essence they all say that nobody knows what will happen. The stories tell us that various devices may fail, but not which ones will fail. While public reaction may be unpredictable, the technology is not. If the problem is not fixed yet, tell me what will and will not work. It is true that no single individual knows what will happen with every computerized system. But the programmers and engineers who designed and built the equipment should know. Those who monitor, maintain and repair the equipment on a daily basis should know. The technology at question is not something handed down from an ancient civilization and no longer understandable by modern man. Most of the original programmers are still alive, and most of the hardware manufacturers are still in business. I can find embedded processor data books at a local used bookstore. Plenty of people know what will happen with their technology. I many cases it is as simple as RTFM.

I dont mean to insult all of the folks working to fix the problem (well maybe some of them). I know there is a lot of code to patch, a lot of hardware to upgrade, and the deadline is fast approaching. Assuming that the deadline is not met, they should be able to tell us where human intervention will be required to flip the switches, monitor the processes and watch for errors on 1-1-00. No doubt that Y2K is a royal pain, but it doesn't have to be TEOTWAWKI or anything close to it.

-- Rob (not@my.pc.now), February 23, 1999.

Gang: For the record, that last "Rob" post was not mine.

-- Rob Michaels (sonofdusr@net.com), February 24, 1999.