After reading about Kingsville and Corpus Christi, all of a sudden I have 6 to 7 Army helos in my neighborhood all morning Saturday. They were a mix of Blackhawks and Huey's in Army Green (black in direct sunlight. From what I could see they were doing knap of the earth and touch and go's. I don't live anywhere near any Army bases and the nearest Army aviation batallion is several states away. This is starting to get a little weird.

-- Excop (Excop@Police.com), February 22, 1999

Answers

I have a friend in the midwest who has talked about black helicopters for years. I always thought he was just paranoid due to his fathers influence (his father is a JBS member) and I largely blew off these conversations. But about 4 weeks ago, as I pulled into my driveway, I heard LOUD chopper noises. Get out, look up, and there were 5 large black choppers on formation looping low and slow over my neighborhood.

You could argue that they were not black, but rather the VERY dark army green. They had no markings of any kind, but I saw enough Army choppers during Hurricane Andrew to know they were military. They all had a long tube type device running along the right skid protruding about 15 feet in front of the cockpit.

I swear I'm not nuts - I have debated bringing this up here, and finally decided to mention it.

Weird? Yup.

-- Online2Much (wondering@the.moment), February 22, 1999.

Every so often our police department borrows helicopters from the National Guard to run drug interdictions on the interstate. In between times they do training together.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), February 22, 1999.

Why are you singing "Happy Days Are Here Again?" Makes me nostalgic.

* The war was fully upon us.

Whenever an air raid warning sounded, and the bombs did not hail down immediately, we scrambled into a cave in Regenstauf. This cave, protected by heavy doors, had served for centuries as a beer cellar. Now people hid there for protection from the thunder and firestorms that engulfed us. When the attack was immediate, we scurried into the cellar of our beergarden, for there was no bomb shelter in Diesenbach.

I still remember the defense equipment in our hallway: tubs and buckets with sand and water, shovels and hand pumps, gas masks of two types, one for adults and one for children. Little Brother and I blew vigorously into them to make the flat rubber nose valves go chchrrrrphf, like giants snoring.

Someone explained that the sand was to be used to smother fires from the firebombs. If these were doused with water, the fire would spread with the water, instead of extinguishing it. This was our entire defense arsenal when the bombs rained into the city: sand and water to save buildings, masks and bunkers to save bodies, prayers to save souls.

Ingenious minds had dreamed up this method of population control, firebombing. It was a little on the crude side, but nonetheless very effective. Those were the days before family planning, and counseling services were not even dreamt of. Besides controlling the population, somebody could also make a little money.

Our bombings became ever more frequent and destructive. Nightly, at the wail of sirens, Ma and Pa scrambled over the masonry rubble littering the streets. They carried Little Brother and me in their arms to find protection underground. Droning airplanes showered us with bombs that shook our world and everything in it. They torched buildings, maimed and killed people. Bombers were liberating the people huddling in caves and basements where they waited to be liberated. When the sirens announced the end of the rain of terror from the sky upon the reign of terror on the ground, we ventured out to find the city in flames, and bodies in rubble.

In the corner of the yellow stucco walls of Pirzers' restaurant I created my own flames when I lit some matches. In that corner I received my first whipping. Ma bared my butt in public and wired me with her famous electrical cord. This was illegal for she did not have the required license. I was hot, full of pain and expertly whipped. Maybe thats why I remember this so well because years of whipping were to follow. Everyone else was allowed to burn whole cities, but I was not allowed to make my own little fire. I could not understand this.

Did mothers spank their children the sky for making fires?

I remember hurrying to a bomb shelter with Ma, and only with Ma. Someone must have dragged Little Brother off into another hole in the ground. Or he was forgotten and Pa was not there. Running through the siren-titillated air, we passed a big house. A woman, presumably the owner, ran from it carrying two blooming flowerpots across the street. She screamed that a firebomb hit her attic. We did not care that much for flowers and kept on running to our hellhole underground. When the sirens told us that it was OK to come back out, we returned to a conflagration in which the flower-pot-less house was engulfed in flames. Two men were pulling firewood away from a wall, to save it, to make fires of their own when it got cold and there was nothing left to make fires with.

* * * Whenever I heard air raid sirens from my left side and always only from my left side, I started screaming. They announced the beginning of joy, or the beginning of terror, depending if one were flying high or scurrying on the ground. It could be a religious experience in either place. I would have preferred to have it in the air, but had no way to get there. So I settled for the underground inspiration instead. With Dante in Hades.

One day after the sirens wailed the end of such an encounter, Ma, Little Brother and I emerged from the earth and walked back to our dance hall home. On the way, a single plane swooped down on us. Ma screamed: "Run, scatter, run!" She wanted us to disperse so we would not present an easy target. I ran to a steel bridge because a giant hornet was chasing us. Invisible objects zinged off the structure and I didnt know where they came from. As quickly as it arrived, the hornet disappeared over the trees. I did not thumb a ride because I was too distracted by the zinging, and thus had to continue my religious experience on the ground.

Who wanted to liberate us? Did Pa ask a Messerschmidt friend to do him a big favor?

Our religious experiences did not only come from the sky but also from the ground, mostly as unfriendly and sometimes as friendly fire. As I played in the street a man came by and said to me:

Come here. Let me cut off your ears!

He pulled out a pocketknife, folded out a blade and tested the edge with an expert thumb. I was already earless enough and would not let him make a silk purse out of me. Screaming with angst in my soul and pee in my pants, the little ham I was, I ran as fast as I could, to bury my snout in Mas skirt where I drew comfort from the familiar scent therein. *

-- Not again! (seenit@ww2.com), February 22, 1999.

Online2Much,

FWIW, I've got no idea what they were doing where you saw them, but I'd bet that the, "long tube type device running along the right skid protruding about 15 feet in front of the cockpit" was an in-flight refueling probe. Very scary thing to do in a helo, but more and more of the newer helos are so equipped.

-- Hardliner (searcher@internet.com), February 22, 1999.

Ok, maybe I really AM online to much, but I thought I'd do a search on military helicopters. I found this, that as memory serves is pretty much what I saw, except the color. The page calls the tube down the right an external sensor. Probably nothing to get overly concerned about, but after years of hearing about black helicopters, it was pretty strange.

link

-- Online2Much (surfing@the.moment), February 22, 1999.

Man, those things sure do look like big nasty wasps, don't they?

Every once in a while here in NYC, I'll see a helicopter or two hovering low for long periods of time like they're looking for someone. Occasionally, I'll see a bunch in formation. Once in a while, down by the East river, I see a couple of them playing around. Training, most likely. Overall, I'd say the Black Helicopter population in NYC is pretty low. I suppose when you've NYC cops all over the place, you don't really NEED black helicopters...

-- pshannon (pshannon@inch.com), February 22, 1999.

"Online2Much",

The tube is indeed an inflight refueling probe. Compare the "business end" of the one in your photo with the same in this photo of an A6 Intruder . The probes must be standardized so that a tanker can refuel different types of aircraft.

Also, the EH-101 that you referenced is a British-Italian aircraft, and it is unlikely that the US military has more than one or two for evaluation somewhere. There are none currently deployed into the operational squadrons of the US military.

-- Hardliner (searcher@internet.com), February 22, 1999.

Yeah, I saw one. This is the last thing I remember about it.

-- Stung by One (dead@gone.ouch), February 22, 1999.

Harliner

You're right - the ends of them do look exactly alike. As for the fact that the pic I posted is a British-Italian aircraft, I noticed that at the site I found it at. I'm not saying this is the exact model I saw, but it is as close in terms of size and style as anything else I found.

-- Online2Much (hard@work._), February 22, 1999.

Well, there are helicopters and helicopters.

Frankly, one saved my life by airlifting me and some other exhausted hikers out of the Grand Canyon, so I am forever grateful. Ive never seen such a beautiful sunset as the one over the canyon that early evening from the copters passenger seat.

It was not black, and not silent running. That kind, Ive seen as well. Somehow, I never had the feeling they were around to help.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), February 22, 1999.

A couple weeks ago, while near the Delaware River in NJ, near Lambertville, my wife and I saw a helicopter, flying low, coming up the river. We were actually looking down on it from the riverbank, it couldn't have been more than 50 feet above the water. The low altitude was bad enough, but was what was infinitely worse was the TYPE of helicopter. This was, without a doubt, a Russian Hind attack helicopter, painted flat black, with NO markings whatsoever. I'd seen them while in Germany while in the Army, have seen them hundreds of times so I know what I saw. It was also apparently fully armed, as the rockets in the launching tubes were visibly "tagged and flagged". Wasn't silent by any means. Gave me a real bad feeling seeing one of thoase things over here. What in hell is going on??

-- Pat (pmarshall@tech.net), February 22, 1999.

Well, I've been seeing them off and on. Not just the smaller ones similar to the one above, but also the big ones with the two...er...roters? Anyway, with several military bases in town this is a common thing around here. Could someone send or post a picture of the Russian helicopter? If it's going to show up anywhere, it's going to show up here.

-- Annie O'Dea (tarotmaid@yahoo.com), February 22, 1999.

EXCOP,

EXCOP - what part of the country are you in? Texas by any chance??

Saw'em flying overhead NAE at low altitudes last Monday morning spooking our horses & cattle. See earlier threads last week about this. We live in North TX, no military bases within 60 miles or so. Not in any flight path.

This weekend we were searching countyside for a hay dolley..driving from Gainesville to Bonham..interesting ...I saw a bunch of totally unpopulated (by people or animals) countryside where black helicopters could fly to their hearts' content. It made me wonder why they were hotdogging last week over our property & neighbors property rather than just a few hundred yds away or just a few miles away with no animals or people.

As far as drug interdiction is concerned...hello! nothing is growing yet & if is it's going get frozen a couple of times before spring really gets here...

It still angers me ..it's our tax dollars that they're flying up there...I'm jumpy every time I hear any aircraft or cars flying by...we moved outside of city for peace & quiet...commute a long way everyday from the city for this peace that's been disturbed.

We can complain to our congresspeople & officials...but also pray to God for mercy and protection and peace...

-- Texan (spooked@ranch.com), February 22, 1999.

" This was, without a doubt, a Russian Hind attack helicopter, painted flat black, with NO markings whatsoever. I'd seen them while in Germany while in the Army, have seen them hundreds of times so I know what I saw. It was also apparently fully armed, as the rockets in the launching tubes were visibly "tagged and flagged". "

Maybe limbering up for a forthcoming tactical SWAT exercise in Scarsdale?? (I think I'm kidding....)

Just to make it all seem real, energize the troops, who knows....

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), February 22, 1999.

With reference to the Russian helo, the May 1998 Air & Space Smithsonian magazine has an article entitled, "Russia's Mi-24 Hind: Armed and Dangerous." According to that article, there are 2,100 Hinds flying in 21 countries, the US amongst them. These gunships "will continue to be a hot export item for Russia." "Today, the helicopter is part of a fleet of Societ aricraft flown by the OPFOR, an opposing force of airmen who teach US troops how to survive enemy attack."

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), February 22, 1999.

Texan,

Sorry but I happen to live in the North East. I am from Dallas originally though. I own a small farm in the country away from major cities - Thats why it seemed so strange!

-- Excop (Excop@police.com), February 22, 1999.

whop whop whop , or should I whisper whhoosshh....whhoosshhh.,.. whhoosssshhh...

Helos exist, have for years.. some are black, some are green, some belong to the military,,,some are hospital evac, some are traffic, some are civilian....

Please dont get so scared that you hide under your bed. The dust bunnies under there can be murder.

-- kay (y2kay@aol.com), February 23, 1999.