Beware! The gov. may just be chanfing it's spin! : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

The possible severity of y2k is starting to come out now, in the media. ABC had a short but sobering segment on Russian y2k problems last nite. We must really pay attention to the gov. spin, because after suppressing y2k info up till now, they may go to the other extreme. Scare tactics are the easiest way to manipulate and control the population. How easy it will be to enact EO's and new arms legislation if they are done to offset real or imagined panic. (Remember the CIA op that shot his SKS at the white house, just before new legislation was voted on banning certain assault weapons, and high capacity clips).

-- Loco (, February 18, 1999


It's possible - there are also far too many stories on CNN (the Government Movie Channel) about the terrorist threat, the cyber-terrorist threat,(with co-incidental? wargames in San Francisco (Monterrey), Texas (Kingsville), the National Guard Mobilisation by SW Radio).

We are all being set up folks - pay attention, stay alive.

The way it works is PROBLEM-------REACTION-------SOLUTION.

BG Bilderberg Group

CFR Council on Foreign Relations

KA Kissinger Associates

RIIA Royal Institute of International Affairs

TC Trilateral Commission

From link :

I have written and spoken many times about the technique I call problem - reaction - solution. You secretly create a problem and ensure that someone else is blamed for it; you manipulate public opinion to demand that "something must be done" about that problem; then you openly offer the solution to the "problem" you have created - the very "solution" you planned from the start. Here I look at two topical events, the war in Bosnia and the bombing in Oklahoma, from the perspective of problem - reaction - solution.

The first thing to appreciate about wars is that, above all else, you need two things to fight them: weapons and money. So whatever war you wish to name has involved the supply of weapons and money to both 'sides', usually by global manipulators.

The Global Elite, which I have described extensively in my last two books, control the global market in both money (most of which does not exist, it is just numbers on a screen) and armaments. Without the supply of money and arms, through Global Eite channels, the wars could not be fought on the scale or for the duration that we have seen in horrors like Bosnia.

Articles in the American alternative press have accused Elite organisations like the Henry Kissinger "company', Kissinger Associates, of manipulating the outbreak of conflict in Bosnia by using front men on both sides to stimulate the simmering resentment passed across the generations between the Serbs, Muslims and other factions. Certainly the evidence is overwhelming (not least by the length of the war) that arms and money have been supplied from outside to keep the fires burning.

So why start and fan the flames of war?

There are many reasons. Lending money to all sides and getting interest on it; lending more money after the war to rebuild the devastated countries and charging interest on it; selling armaments. All these things make vast amounts of money and to this mindset, money = power.

But the real motivation for starting wars is part of a much greater plan.

"War always means fear and fear is the weapon most used to control and manipulate humanity."

Get people frightened and they will always give their power away to anyone they believe will protect them from whatever they are frightened of. Also, a war always changes the nature of society. That's the point we need to grasp because that is the most fundamental motivation for manipulating wars.

After the First World War - in which the same people funded and manipulated all sides - post war society was much more centralised than it had been before. This process continued with even greater contralisation after the Second World War in which the same people once again funded and manipulated all sides. It happens all the time, most blatantly in the Gulf War when Iraq was armed and funded by the same countries (including Britain and America), who then declared war on her.

As the late, great, American comedian Bill Hicks, said: "How did America know what weapons the Iraqis had? They looked at the receipt!"

Under the principles of problem - reaction - solution, you obviously need a problem to start with. So once the conflict began, the last thing the Elite wanted was for the status quo - the UN peace keeping force - to be effective. They don't want the status quo, they want to evolve it into a full fledged world army and so they ensured that the UN peace keeping operation didn't work. Indeed they did all they could to embarrass it. The more the horrific pictures from Bosnia appeared on world television screens, the louder, understandably, came the cry of "Something must be done." What has been the solution? A 60,000 strong world army under centralised control - the biggest multinational force assembled since the Second World War. Exactly as planned all along.

There is a network of organisations working together which form the secret government of the world and it is far more powerful than the ones we "elect." I have talked and written of these groups constantly because it is important that we understand what is going on behind the scenes. They are, among others: the Royal Institute of International Affairs in London (RIIA); the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) in the U.S.; the Bilderberg Group (BG), funded by the Rockefeller and Rothschild empires; and the Trilateral Commission (TC) which coordinates the same manipulation between three regions: America, Europe and Japan.

Leading names in global politics, business, banking, the media, the military, "education" and so on, are members of these organisations and it is interesting, in the light of the Elites' desire for a world army, to look at the major peace negotiators in Bosnia since that conflict began: the first European Union negotiator was the former British Foreign Secretary Lord Carrington (chairman of the BG, President of the RIIA, TC, and founding director of KA); he was followed by another former British Foreign Secretary, Lord David Owen (BG, TC); and his successor was Carl Bildt of Sweden (BG).

Working alongside them throughout the period were the UN peace negotiators, Cyrus Vance (BG, TC, CFR), and Thorvald Stoltenberg of Norway (BG, TC). When they failed to achieve peace, out of the blue came an 'independent' peace negotiator amid worldwide publicity. This was Jimmy Carter, the first Trilateral Commission president of the US.

Then came the group which negotiated the 'agreement' which led to the introduction of the world army and the setting of that precedent. These included the US peace envoy, Richard Holbrooke (BG, TC), who answered to the U.S. Secretary of State, Warren Christopher (CFR, TC), who in turn answered to President Bill Clinton (BG, CFR, TC). Bill Clinton answers (but never back!) to the Global Elite which funded and manipulated him into the White House - the Rockefeller empire and others.

Currently, the world army in Bosnia is commanded by Admiral Leighton Smith (CFR), while the man responsible for the civilian side of the operation is Carl Bildt (BG).

What on Earth is going on here? And why are we not told of these common links between peace negotiators in a conflict that has caused such pain and suffering? Maybe it's because members of the core inner elite of the Bilderberg Group, like the Canadian Conrad Black, are major media owners. Black owns the British Telegraph newspapaers through a company called the Hollinger Group, which includes on its board as overseas advisors, Henry Kissinger (BG, CFR, TC), and Lord Carrington (BG, RIIA, TC). And who led an undisclosed "diplomatic" mission to Rwanda, days before that horrific civil war erupted? Lord Carrington and Henry Kissinger.

There is so much we have not been told about the Rwandan and Bosnian conflicts and in my view from this, and much other evidence, the war was manipulated into place under the principles of problem-reaction- solution for the reason of creating the precedent for a world army. The poem on the previous page highlights magnificently what this has meant for the people of that land

Look at the great spectrum of assassinations and terrorism across the decades and you will find the following 'explanation' again and again: lone assassin, no conspiracy.

This was said most famously after the assassination of President Kennedy in 1963. We were told - and the media accepted it with hardly a murmur - that JFK was killed by a lone assassin, Lee Harvey Oswald, from a book depository overlooking Dealey Plaza in Dallas, a claim that was simply impossible.

Today, however, even official congressional comittees have accepted there was a conspiracy that involved far more than just one man. Oswald was a 'patsy' as they say in America, a stooge set up to take the blame. He was himself murdered before his trial and this stopped the truth coming out in court.

Something similar is emerging. I feel, in relation to former soldier Timothy McVeigh, and his friend, Terry Nichols, who are due to face trial for the murder of some 168 men, women and children, by the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City on April 19th 1995. I don't know how they were involved, but what is for certain is that at most they were only a part, little more than patsies, in a very large operation organised by elements within the United States political-industrial-military complex.

Again, look at this from the perspective of problem - reaction - solution. The Clinton Administration and the Global Elite were coming under increasing pressure from the Christian Patriot Militias in America who were have some success in circulting information about the New World Oder - the world government, central bank, etc. There were many attempts over a period of months to discredit them and as this assault on their motives grew and grew, suddenly came the terrible carnage in Oklahoma which was blamed on...the militia movement.

Now there are large parts of the Christian Patriot mindset and their expression in the militias that I have fundamental disagreement with, but they have been doing and communicating some excellent research into the secret government. Pointing the finger in their direction for the bombing, has allowed an onslaught to be lauched against them and their information.

More than that, legislation compiled by the Anti-Defamation League (a front for the Israeli intelligence agency Mossad) which called for greater powers for law enforcement agencies, including an expansion of phone tapping and raids on property, was wheeled before Congress in the wake of the bomb. Bill Clinton also called for "an easing of restrictions on the military's involvement in domestic law enforcement."

Problem - reaction - solution at work again, I most strongly believe.

The official government explanation parroted without quesion for a year by the world's media is that McVeigh and Nichols put together a fuel-fertiliser bomb in some barn and used it to cause that horrendous devastation. It was first said to be a 1,000-pound bomb, bust as the scale of the damage and the size of the bomb made a mockery of this explanation, the bomb has miraculously grown in size to reach some 4,800 pounds. McVeigh just "happened" to be picked up for a minor motoring offence soon after the bomb in the same way that a convoy of armed policemen were dispatched to arrest a man after the Kennedy assassination who has entered a cinema without buying a ticket. That man was Lee Harvey Oswald.

Given this background, here are a few things you have not been told about the bomb in Oklahoma.

The government explanation of the bomb is ridiculous. A fuel- fertiliser bomb in a truck could not possible have caused that damage, as independent bomb experts have told the alternative media in the U.S.

While they disagree on exactly what type of bomb was involvd, these experts are united in their conclusion that (a) it was not the type the government claims and (b) it had to have been planted by professionals inside the building itself.

Ted T. Gunderson, who worked for the FBI for 28 years, was one of the first to be suspicious. He beieved the damage was caused by a barometric bomb which has the same security clearance as nuclear weapons - way beyond anything McVeigh and Nichols could have got hold of. The barometric bomb involves two explosions. The first causes some damage and releases chemicals thich form into a highly explosive cloud. Then comes the second blast which ignites the cloud and causes a fantastic explosion. The government says that there was only one blast, not two, but when Gunderson checked the readings fro Oklahoma that morning at the earthquake monitoring centre at Oklahoma University, he found that they registered two explosions ten seconds apart - exactly in line with a barometric bomb. Now, I understand, they have found a third, which could be the diversion bomb blamed on McVeigh and Nichols.

Hoppy Heidelberg, a grand juror investigating the case, broke the law of silence to make public his concerns that a massive cover up was going on. He said the jury was not being allowed to investigate reports of a third man - the so-called John Doe 2 - who witnesses said they saw at the scene with McVeigh. Heidelberg believes that this man could have been a government agent "handling" McVeigh. Judge Wayne Alley, who has an office across the street from the federal building, told the Portland Oregonian newspaper that he had been warned by government officiasl 16 days before the blast that sometingk like a bombing was going to happen. The judge was on holiday when the bomb went off! Alley was first appointed to the investigation of the bombing and then withdrawn after the article. The list gets longer all the time as more of the government's fairy story is dismantled by tenacious research. The trial of McVeigh and Nichols will be the usual farce, as paid and threatened people tell the court what the government has told them to say. The idea is to convict those two and, in doing so, close the file on what really happened.

I have believed from the start, however, that this is a bomb too far. Whatever happens in court, the efforts to uncover the real background will not end or go away. The truth about Oklahoma will come out and what a story it is going to be.


-- Andy (, February 18, 1999.

No way! I TRUST Dan Rather. He has great hair, and a great voice!

-- Anonymous99 (, February 18, 1999.

99, wrong dude, his hair is a Syrup...

-- Andy (, February 18, 1999.

Andy, keep that up and this may be your "year of living dangerously"...

-- Nikoli Krushev (, February 18, 1999.

Hey here's one to think on. What if the fed boys thought at first that they would let Y2K take it toll and then crack down with the EO's. Even going futher and not making a big deal out of it to prevent JQP's awakening to enhance the effect for futher Justification. Then Wham along comes the doomsayers in bout 95 and triggers just enough of a response to cause companies to wake up and smell the coffee, so they start fixing thier stuff. We'll along comes 99 and we see lotsa awareness and vast remediation plans. All of a sudden the Boys and Girls in WDC figure thier plans not gonna pan out. So what do they do.. A little steering meeting and they decide on a course correction. They get the spin machine goin to pump out more and more media on this looking pretty bleak. Purpose: To trigger the panic now to create the bank runs and the food shortages which would no longer happen because of Y2k. This is now the only course of action to justify ML because Y2K is reduced to a 2.5 and things are looking better.

-- Bill Lamoreux (SlammaRamma@Nospam.Pleas), February 18, 1999.

Yes Nikoli, it has occurred to me that I might rattle one cage too many...

On the other hand this will be the year of living dangerously for all of us.

-- Andy (, February 18, 1999.

Many may NOT be even alive to see 01.01.2000 Andy, as much as I sometimes think your full of the brown stuff this time you may be right on.

This are but two headlines that can be read at yahoo news and probably at other news pages too. Look at the date and time! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thursday February 18 6:26 AM ET

President Boris Yeltsin said Thursday he had told President Clinton that Russia would not let NATO use force against Yugoslavia over its handling of the Kosovo crisis.

``I conveyed to Clinton my view, both by phone and by letter, that this (threatened military strikes against Yugoslavia) will not work...We will not let you touch Kosovo,'' Yeltsin said in televised comments. ----------------------------------------------------------------------

Thursday February 18 7:42 AM ET

NATO To Act 'Very Soon' If Kosovo Talks Fail SKOPJE (Reuters) - NATO Secretary-General Javier Solana warned Thursday that NATO would act swiftly if Serbs and ethnic Albanians failed to reach a peace agreement at talks in France.

Asked at a news conference in Macedonia how fast NATO would act if the talks failed, Solana said: ``It would be very soon.''


I hope every one of you has the guide for nuclear and chemical protection, a gas mask and enugh filters and protective clothing. HEY,YOU NEVER KNOW. rickjohn

-- rickjohn (, February 18, 1999.

Thanks Rickjohn, that was news to me...

-- Andy (, February 18, 1999.

rickjohn..You aint just whistlin' dixie there pal. Clinton seems determined to wade hip deep into this viper pit, dragging all of us along with him. It wouldn't surprise me a bit for Soviet fighters to engage our planes over Kosovo, or for Russian mechanized divisions to move into supporting positions immediately. Yeltsin is under political attack from within by the communist party and a little Clinton style wag the dog wouldn't hurt his stock a bit.

This situation could easily escalate into a full blown nuclear confrontation, and so it so quickly most people would never see it coming. I just can't for the life of me understand why children insist on playing with matches in the dynamite shed.

-- Nikoli Krushev (, February 18, 1999.

Nikoli, you're absolutely correct - we could be involved in a nuclear conflict in the blink of an eye if this insane foreign policy continues. Yeltsin not only needs political shoring-up, he's old and very ill. Not a good combination. Witness the aid that Russia has given to Iran and Iraq recently, and the situation looks even worse.

Andy, don't ever stop posting. You either, Nikoli. Certainly there are a lot of us living dangerously, here and all over... anyone who speaks their mind against the established order is sticking their neck waaaaaay out. I have no illusions... if martial law is declared, they will make, or attempt to make, many of us "disappear". They may try it well before then. Ah well, nobody gets out of here alive, anyway...

-- Why2K? (, February 18, 1999.

Sorry, your thinking (imagination) is running away. Hurry up, try to catch it before it explodes. I know this train of thought does exist but you guys have no clue of governments and power throughout the globe. Yeah this gov is not perfect but it is not taking away your freedoms. Yeah the CIA works in mysterious ways but he's not after you, little ones. Any one passing by (like me) trying to find out more about Y2K, stops here and reads the number of threads like this one and can only conclude that you're all a bunch of wackos. Yeah keep up the good work!

-- Lucy (, February 18, 1999.

I agree with Why2K. Keep on posting!

-- Sharon in Texas (, February 18, 1999.

obviously, Lucy is not aware of the US backed and trained "Dirty Little War" throughout Central and South America in the '70's and '80's where thousands of people who dared to speak up "disappeared." In Argentina, they drugged 'em and threw them out of airplanes into the ocean as a convenient way to make sure nobody would find 'em. Lucy is an advocate of the "can't happen here" mindset. Hope you're right Lucy!

-- pshannon (, February 18, 1999.

Lucy Lucy! tsk tsk. You're generalizing, how rude of you. Stick around longer and you'll see that conspiracy buff tend to bunch together in one thread.

Just pick and choose the threads that tickle you, but please don't dismiss this whole forum on account of a few. The forum as a whole represent every views on the spectrum, only thing that we all really have in common is that we're aware of a computer problem dubbed "y2k" and want to know more about it. There's religious wackos to atheists, ostriches with thier heads deep in the sand to paranoids, Mad Max Warriors-head-for-the-hills types to community building leaders here.

One stop shop :-) Great forum.

...and remember, "just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you" ;-)

-- Chris (, February 18, 1999.

Perhaps Andy would be polite enough to title all his articles starting with 'Conspiracy theory garbage' so we are not even tempted to think that perhaps, just perhaps, he has written something sensible for a change.

Hey, how about the header always starts out with Andy & Nikoli Useless Statements..........could abbreviate it to save pixels!

-- Craig (, February 18, 1999.


You wrote, "War always means fear and fear is the weapon most used to control and manipulate humanity."

Get people frightened and they will always give their power away to anyone they believe will protect them from whatever they are frightened of.

These are excerpts from a book called Stella by: Peter Wyden, of course it's published by Simon & Schuster housed in Rockefeller Center.

"Eichmann's dress rehearsal was staged not in Berlin but in Vienna, the waltz capital. It was the week Hitler annexed Austria, the Anschluss of march 1938, and Eichmann was settling in at the Palais Rothschild, The palace of the fugitive Baron Louis de Rothschild, on Prinz Eugen Strasse, making it headquarters of the "Central Office for Jewish Emigration". snip

The belt system pioneered by Eichmann, Brunner and Company disposed of the Vienna Jews efficiently by way of the Holocost's first life/death "selection." The machinary worked on dual tracks: it fleeced those whose wealth permitted them to pay off for the privilege of emigration, while deporting the majority who lacked assets to finance escape. Baronn de Rothschild from Prinz Eugen Strasse purchased his freedom by surrendering his steel mills to the Hermann Goring Works; ordinary mortals had to board Brunner's trains east. snip

Rothschild had been arrested at the Vienna Airport, Aspern, while trying to flee; his pasport was torn up, the fragments thrown in his face. In prison his captors pressured this billionaire into financial surrender quite simply by giving him next to nothing to eat. snip

Henry (Heinz) Kissinger from Furth near Nurenburg, who lost twenty-six kinfolk at Auschwitz and never hides his emotion when he is reminded of the Holocaust in public...

What do you think about this?

-- Deborah (read@too.much), February 18, 1999.


Perhaps you would be polite enough to just write "More BS" on every one of your replies so we could save space on this forum and time reading your inane thoughts. That way we wouldn't be tempted to think that perhaps, just perhaps, you have written something sensible for a change.

-- Nabi Davidson (, February 18, 1999.

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