Well i am looking at two lens the Tamron 200-400 f4.5/5.6 and the Tokina 80-400 f5.6. I know they are a bitt different but I am looking for feedback on the reliability, construction, durability, and sharpnes of the two brands. I know they dont compare to a Canon L lens but quite frankly Im just a boat driver so price is a issue, the lens will be used primarily for nature photo work. Any thoughts or comments are helpfull. Thanks.

-- Capt. Rick Dumiak (rickd1@sprintmail.com), February 16, 1999

Answers

If you are set on going with either of these two lenses, then I would go with the Tamron. My experience with Tokina zooms was not very good. If you are willing to consider other options, then I would look at either a Canon 200mm lens with teleconverter or save up a few more dollars and get the Canon 80-200 zoom with TC. There really are no "hidden treasures" in third party zooms. Good luck.

-- Ron Stecher (stecherr@vafb5a.vafb.af.mil), February 17, 1999.

Many people with x-400 zooms end up using them at 400mm almost all the time. This is especially true of wildlife photographers. If this applies to you, maybe a 400/5.6 APO (which will be sharper) could be a better buy?

Of the two maybe the Tokina is the better choice. If you are going to suffer from a soft lens at 400mm, you might as well have the extra zoom range! I think the tripod mount is extra though, and you will need it, so factor that into the cost with the Tokina.

I'd get a used Canon 300/4 and a 1.4x TC if you can afford it and forget about the 3rd party zooms.

-- Bob Atkins (bobatkins@hotmail.com), February 17, 1999.

Rick, I agree with Bob. If you still want a zoom here comes some insight:

The maximum aperture of the Tokina ATX 840 is with f 4.5 from 80 to 300 mm and f 5.6 at 400 mm a little faster than the Tamron. The over all size is small enough to qualify as serious travel zoom (it is a lot smaller than Tamron's 200-400 mm and faster !) and I can not complain about it's quality. It sure is not as sharp as fixed focals, but that's the sacrifice for convenience. The pictures I have taken so far are pretty good, but I don't use slide film, only print. Therefore I can't really comment on the REAL sharpness of this lens. One thing I have noticed though, is that you have to be very careful about shake. I had to buy an accessory tripod collar or ensure better results at the long 400 mm end in difficult light situations. The hand held use under sunny summer conditions with fast shutter speeds up to 300 mm is not too difficult. One thing that really sucks is that it doesn't offer no internal focus (Tamron does). The use of lens hood and polarizer at the same time is really tricky !

Here my review on this lens.....

Experiences with the Tokina ATX 840, AF 80-400 mm f 4.5 - 5.6 lens (here in Minolta mount, tested on a Maxxum/Dynaxx 7xi body)

By Marcus Erne, August 1998

Introduction

With the purchase of this Tokina auto focus lens I tried to cover my primary goal of : an all-round super-tele- zoom lens with a flexible focal range and of course possibly high quality.

Knowing about the disadvantages of zooms, I prefer to be flexible and I want to avoid lens changes while traveling. Because one is always limited in vacation time, I try not to spend too much time with the perfect/ultimate set-up for a picture. My idea of photography is more the documentation of the places I have seen on my trips rather than creating photographical art. That does not mean that I am shooting in a hurry, but I want my photography to be well balanced. I want to experience the new places with all my senses, not only through a viewfinder. I just want to make good pictures which do not require the ultimate sharpness a professional would want. At that time the ATX 840 80-400 f 4.5-5.6 was introduced it was very appealing for me to have such a relatively wide open aperture at the long end and thus a wide range of application, this lens makes also a relatively cheap starter in wildlife photography. Added to a 28-105 mm f 2.8 it gives a wide focal range (28-400)= with only two lenses. At the same time, a slower Minolta AF 100-400 f 5.6 - 6.7 zoom costs about $ 100 more (price B&H).

Build

The diameter is 3.4 in / 8.6 cm, the length at 80 mm position 5.3 in / 13.6 cm, completely extended 8.75 in / 22.2 cm. The total lens weight 960g / 33,86 oz. is OK due to the fact that the housing is metal built. A solid and effective hard plastic hood 3.35 in / 8.5 cm long and with a diameter of 4.01 in / 10.2 cm is included and mounted in bayonet style. Like with other lenses it is not possible to put on or take off the lens cap while the hood is fitted. According to Tokinas advertisements no tripod holder is necessary for this lens. It is supposed to be short and light enough to mount just the body to the tripod. I do not agree with this. I will probably buy a custom made one (available in Germany), later. I did fine as long as there was enough light but as soon as I fell under the minimum of 1/focal = 1/shutter, the pictures showed a slight blur. Part of it is my cheap tripod though. The zoom ring operates smooth up to 200, after that there is a point when it is a little stiff, and further out it is as smooth as before. A tripod collar is available as additional accessory for $ 130 (price B&H). Available in Canon, Minolta, Nikon-D and Pentax mount.

Optical

As a 10 group, 16 element lens this is most certainly a long compromise zoom lens. Minimum aperture is f 32, minimum focal distance 8.2 ft / 2.5 m. The magnification ratio is 1:5 and the angle of view 30.20 - 6.10. The maximum aperture of 4.5 changes to 5.6 at the 300 mm setting. Filter size is 77 mm. I could neither detect any visible vignetting nor any distortion, color is neutral. To avoid ghosting, flare (built-in flare cutting mechanism) and any other degrading effects which are common among all zooms in this range the lens hood should be used at all times. Stopping down to f 8 or 11 will provide (of course) better images, but even wide open, the results are good. Using the lens zoomed from 80 to 300 mm I was even able to get AF with 2x TC !!! But focusing was naturally very slow. The images then taken were blurred due to tripod instability and they had sentimental value, of coarse only.

Handling

After getting used to the size, the lens made no problem for handling, storage etc. I would like to warn everybody who has not worked with such a long lens yet that one must carefully watch the necessary techniques. It is two touch design with a large rubberized zoom ring and a smaller (approx. 50%) manual focus ring. The lens offers no internal focus feature which is not very practical especially while using circular polarizer. It creeps easily while having it strapped around the neck during walking/hiking. Pictures taken at long focal length and hand-held with high shutter speeds were surprisingly good, but a good tripod is certainly a huge plus. I also recommend to get the accessory tripod collar to avoid tripod instability (as suggested by Bob A.). The range I most often used: 80mm and between 200 and 400 mm. I was glad to have a zoom in most situations because it allowed me a flexible and fast picture composition without lens changes. I believe I would have lost some nice, unexpected shots due to a lens change such as a black bear along the road in Yellowstone N.P.! I used ISO 400 print film, only.

Compatibility

The lens operates nicely together with the body. When in automatic mode, shutter speed is automatically adjusted according to focal length. Everything functioned as usual, no malfunctions were detected. On very few occasions the predictive AF did not work properly. The shutter would not release, mainly in very low/dim light situations with moving objects (bodys lack of cross field AF?). AF speed compared to a Minolta 100-400 zoom is said to be a little faster due to the larger maximum aperture (Minolta Mailing List). The attached hood blocks the AF auxiliary light, but if one must work with it indoors in most situations it might be save enough to work without the hood.

Price

It can be found for $ 500 (after rebate) at B&H via mail order in USA or 999 DEM at Wuerzburger in Germany. Conclusion

A well manufactured lens and easy to operate. A great lens for everybody who is looking for a tele-zoom (travel) lens in this focal range. It can not replace the quality of primes though. It might be extend in focal length with a 1.4x tele-converter and still produce reasonable results. Beginners and casual photographers should not buy this lens unless they can find an opportunity to test it and to make sure that they really want (or should I say need) this long type of lens. Small draw backs may be the missing internal focus feature and the missing tripod-mount. Most Canon and Nikon users will miss the ultrasonic motor capability; in most cases the comparable Canon/Nikon zooms with USM etc. can be expected to focus faster. Sounds like a Minolta and Pentax winner ?!? The low price is a big plus to consider it as a starter lens in the tele range !!! It is a pity that it does not come together with a tripod collar.

web page: www.thkphoto.com/catalog/t/atx840af.html

-- Marcus Erne (cerne@ees.eesc.com), February 18, 1999.

Capt. Rick, I'd second Bob Atkins comments. You can now find the Canon 300 f/4 L's for fairly cheap (about $600) and it's quality is going to surpass that of the aftermarket zooms. One thing to note, the Tamron 200-400 is a fixed f/5.6 lens throughout the zoom range. The fact that it has a built in tripod collar is a definite plus. There is also the Sigma 135-400 f/4.5~5.6 apo zoom, I've heard these are pretty good and go for about $500 new from B&H or CWO. I've also seen the Tamron 200-400's quite a bit in the used market which might make it's price much more palatable. There is also the Canon 75-300mm "IS" lens, which has had some pretty good reviews and goes for about $500 new but can also be found used. Good luck!

-- Bill Meyer (william_meyer@stortek.com), February 23, 1999.