I almost picked-up some rechargeable alkalines tonight, but the packaging emphasised that for maximum life, they should be frequently recharged, and not allowed to run-down. Also, the alkalines can be recharged about 100 times, whereas nicads can be recharged about 1000 times.

Can anyone shed light on the pros & cons of alkaline vs nicad from experience?

-- Anonymous99 (Anonymous99@Anonymous.com), February 13, 1999

Answers

Some things the packaging won't tell you:

1) Alkaline batteries max charge goes down every single time they are recharged. Eventually they become useless. 2) 100 times, sure, if you play your radio for 5 minutes with the volume down at "1", and then immediately rechage. Alkalines wear out around here after about 10 times. (I have a nifty charger from Real Goods that charges them & nicads)

Jolly

-- Jollyprez (jolly@prez.com), February 14, 1999.

Anonymous,

I work in building construction and use my nicad powered cordless drill, flashlight, sawzall, and circular saw almost every day. They all use the same 18 volt nicad battery. I have recharged the batteries hundereds of times over a three year period and they still power the tools just like when they were new. They provide almost the same power as an equivelent electricaly powered tool. The flashlight has a very powerfull beam (triple a 2 d battery flashlight) that lasts 3 or so hours on a charge. The batteries are recharged in a quick charger that does the job in 30 minutes. As for the cost of my 18 volt nicad powered tools, the above mentioned set of tools runs about $700.00 as a set. The flashlight, battery and charger run about $125.00 if bought seperatly.

I would guess that the rechargeable nicads in the conventional sizes, to power your flashlights, radio's and such would give the same reliable results, and the costs would be a whole lot less. I reccommend pay the extra and buy the conventional nicads over the alkaline. Hope this helps. TJ

-- TJ (trickjames@hotmail.com), February 14, 1999.

Anonymous99,

The price of the nicads isn't that much more than the alkalines, either (at least at Wal-Mart). I bought the nicads and have had good luck with them.

-- Nabi Davidson (nabi7@yahoo.com), February 14, 1999.

I agree with TJ. I have been using NiCads for over 20 years, and they have paid for themselves many times over. I used AA sized NiCads when I was going to school in a microcassette tape recorder for recording class lectures. I always carried a spare set just in case, but never needed them, and could record over three hours of lectures, plus play back almost 2 hours before I had to recharge them. I still have four of the original six, and still use them.

Almost forgot. I finished school in 1992, and bought the bats in 1990.

LP

-- LP (soldog@hotmail.com), February 14, 1999.

Nike ads? I prefer the Reebok ads, personally.

-- Leo (lchampion@ozemail.com.au), February 14, 1999.

I'm a crime stringer for a newspaper and TV station and listen to a police scanner for many hours daily (and nightly), have done for five years. My newest scanner's nicads 4-pack (AA) lasts 9 hours before it runs down. In the meantime, I have one pack in a charging cradle, one charged, and one in the scanner, which is plugged in with an adapter, recharging itself sporadically, on and off. The packs are rotated. I also have a couple of spare scanners, one of which was in constant use for two years, another for another two years; they're used on a fairly regular basis when something is going on and I need to listen to several channels of talk. They take 4 x AAs and 6 x AAs, respectively. Some of the nicads I bought five years ago are still in use--the brands are Radio Shack and (chuckle) Millennium, which I found at Lowe's. I intend to buy more nicads from C. Crane (on line) because they say their house brand lasts longer (better prices too) and they're very reputable. I too have one of the Eco chargers from Real Goods; it has two very useful features: one, it checks each battery with a readout display and will indicate any bad cells; and two, it charges at a supposedly recommended slower rate than regular chargers. I also have Eveready and GE chargers for quick fixes to charge everything up to max when bad weather is expected.

By the way, I've talked to both sets of associates about Y2K but have received the usual responses. My field is strictly crime, so I guess I'll have to wait for Y2K-related crime before I have any influence.

-- Nosy Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), February 14, 1999.

If you promise to spring me and pay my expenses, I'll go to your precinct and bash someone over the head for their generator.

That's y2k-related crime, right?

-- Leo (lchampion@ozemail.com.au), February 14, 1999.

Regarding alkaline vs. nickelcad batteries. I was a peace officer/paramedic in Fla for 11 years. We used nicad extensively because of the reliablity. The only real problem we had was with the false power level top that nicads get after many recharges. Solution is to leave the power on and let the battery dischage fully then recharge. We did switch to alkaline when the first came out--spent a lot of taxpayer money--found out they didn't do well in heavy duty use and then found out that the maintainence people had sold the nicads for scrap. Some heads rolled on that one. Lobo

-- Lobo (hiding@woods.com), February 14, 1999.

I'm with everyone else: NiCad's are the way to go. Lots of good replies, so not too much to add except that there are two different types of NiCad's available, with different lifespans. Most common are the sintered-plate NiCad's, because they're the cheapest to manufacture. This type of construction is usually found in the cheaper, non-name-brand batteries. Life expectancy on these is around 500 cycles. The other type are pocket-plate NiCad's. These will last upwards of 1000 cycles, and can be rapid-charged in three hours or under. In general, the only way to differentiate between the two types is to look at the recommended charging instructions, with the rapid-charge variety being the better grade. However, it's still best to slow-charge any battery for long life. Any NiCad that's overcharged can vent its internal seal, which is a one-shot deal... after the seal blows, the electrolyte inside will rapidly dry out, rendering the battery useless.

-- Why2K? (who@knows.com), February 14, 1999.

Does anyone have knowledge about charging ni-cad with a solar battery charger?HLow ya gonna charge batteries when the power companies black out ?

-- Betty Alice (Barn266@aol.com), February 14, 1999.

Why2K? said:
 

"I'm with everyone else: NiCad's are the way to go. Lots of good replies, so not too much to add except that there are two different types of NiCad's available, with different lifespans. Most common are the sintered-plate NiCad's, because they're the cheapest to manufacture. This type of construction is usually found in the cheaper, non-name-brand batteries. Life expectancy on these is around 500 cycles. The other type are pocket-plate NiCad's. These will last upwards of 1000 cycles, and can be rapid-charged in three hours or under. In general, the only way to differentiate between the two types is to look at the recommended charging instructions, with the rapid-charge variety being the better grade. However, it's still best to slow-charge any battery for long life. Any NiCad that's overcharged can vent its internal seal, which is a one-shot deal... after the seal blows, the electrolyte inside will rapidly dry out, rendering the battery useless."

 
While there are two types of ni-cad cells, all sealed cells (i.e. 'AAA', 'AA', 'C', 'D' cells, and 9-volt cells .. among others) are of the "sintered-plate" variety. "Pocket-plate" cells define a "wet-cell" construction that won't be found in any of your small rechargeable devices. Cell capacities and costs differ due to the internal thicknesses of the materials used, as well as differences in construction techniques. Pocket-plate cells are physically very large by comparison and are most commonly found being used in industrial applications where very high storage capacities are needed.
 
Summary: All ni-cad cells that you purchase off the shelf in bubble-packaging will be of sintered-plate technology. Internal construction differences determine the charging rate.
 
Note: Pay close attention when purchasing ni-cads. Not all 'C' and 'D' cells are truly 'C' and 'D' cells. To save money, some manufacturers take smaller penlight (or similar) cells and put a large "shell" around them thus making them appear to be their larg er cousins. Weight is a primary give-away. 'D' cells are heaviest. 'C' cells, being smaller, are somewhat lighter... and so forth. If you find a 'D' or 'C' cell that weighs the same as a smaller cell, examine the "ampere-hour" rating on the package. True 'D' cells should have a rating in the 4-ampere-hour range. 'C' cells are roughly 2.0-2.5 ampere-hours. Anything that's significantly less (50% less than these figures) indicates that the cell is not what you think it is. A second method (albeit not quite as reliable a method) is to examine the large flat "bottom" (negative terminal) of the larger suspect 'C' and 'D' cells. If you can see a separate cell bottom within the cell bottom (so to speak), it's visual confirmation of a smaller capacity cell that's been inserted into a larger shell to make it appear to be a 'C' or 'D' cell .. when in fact it's not.
 
Just my 0.02 amps worth... :)
 
Hope this helps.
 
Dan
 


-- Dan (DanTCC@Yahoo.com), February 14, 1999.

Betty,

The solar panel replaces the wall socket. You put the batteries in the charger's battery holders, and put it where it can get as much sunlight as possible.

Depending on the charger, and assuming it gets normal (cloudless) sunlight for the duration of the charge, it should recharge your batteries as well as a plug-in type. The less sunlight, the longer it will take to reach full charge. Read the instructions that come with the charger.

LP

-- LP (soldog@hotmail.com), February 14, 1999.

Hey Dan,

While pocket-plate construction is used in NiCad wet cells, that method of construction is indeed used in smaller cells - it's just not at all common. Real Goods Co., Ukiah, CA, carries the 'Golden Power' brand of cells in AA, C and D sizes that are of pocket-plate construction. They guarantee them for life. For reference, you can check their "Solar Living Source Book", ninth edition, copyright 1996, page 416. Real Goods technical support number is (707) 468-9292 - call them and they will confirm that this is true.

Your remarks regarding manufacturers sneaking an AA cell battery into a C or D cell housing is right on target. Glad you mentioned it, I had bought some of those years ago when I was first getting off the grid... an unpleasant surprise. Thanks for pointing it out.

-- Why2K? (who@knows.com), February 14, 1999.

There was ANOTHER thread on the SAME SUBJECT just a few days ago.

Look for it for comments on rechargeables. I made a blanket statement that they suck. This applied to my experiences with alkaline rechargables. Posts about the NiCads, lead me to think that they (NiCads) might be a good bet.

-- a (A@AisA.com), February 15, 1999.

Correction:

It wasn't a few days ago, it was frickin' YESTERDAY!!

-- a (A@AisA.com), February 15, 1999.

-- a (A@AisA.com) wrote: (snip) There was ANOTHER thread on the SAME SUBJECT just a few days ago.

Look for it for comments on rechargeables. I made a blanket statement that they suck. This applied to my experiences with alkaline rechargables. Posts about the NiCads, lead me to think that they (NiCads) might be a good bet.

-- a (A@AisA.com), February 15, 1999.

Correction:

It wasn't a few days ago, it was frickin' YESTERDAY!!

-- a (A@AisA.com), February 15, 1999. (snip) A, (does that stand for As**ole???) Take your rude, lousey additude elsewhere. (THAT is what truly sucks) You are obiously clueless, but sadly dont know it. I gleaned info from BOTH threads, and usually learn something new from MOST posts. Note: We were created with TWO ears, only ONE mouth.

-- Y2D (TiredOfYou@Dum.Dum), February 15, 1999.

a,

"Posts about the NiCads, lead me to think that they (NiCads) might be a good bet."

Depending on the application, they are. They have their shortcomings, as most things do, but, for applications such as radios, they're hard to beat. I've even used them in my mini-Mag light with no problems.

I'm sure you know by now that the best way to find out is to get a pair of them, and try them out for a month or two. I think consumer NiCads will be on the shelves for a while, yet, so you still have time to perform your test, and stock up if you so choose. (Unless...)

Good Luck.

LP

-- LP (soldog@hotmail.com), February 16, 1999.

The recharge rates and heat loads differ greater for both: look real carefully at your charger, and ONLY use the battery type listed - normally only NIKE or ALKY (addisses sold separately, Leo) are allowed in a charger.

I blew up some D cell alkilines trying to charge them in a NiCd charger - melted the battery case, got fluid leaks that dissolved the plastic charger case, came real close to ruining the carpet near the outlet - and getting killed by my wife. Fortunately, carpet was covered by a newspaper accidently left under the charger.

Best is to go with only one kind - my preference is NiCd. NiCd will tend to have a fairly constant discharge voltage over time of service, then rapidly loose voltage right at the end-of-charge period. Alkie's will tend to lose more volts over the charge period, but not have that rapid drop off at the end.

-- Robert A. Cook, P.E. (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), February 16, 1999.

Robert,

"NiCd will tend to have a fairly constant discharge voltage over time of service, then rapidly loose voltage right at the end-of-charge period. Alkie's will tend to lose more volts over the charge period, but not have that rapid drop off at the end."

Lose volts over the _charge_ period? Hah?

LP

-- LP (soldog@hotmail.com), February 17, 1999.

Charge period = time between recharging = discharge period. Or time from "start of use" to "unuseable voltage". Or whatever you want to call it, just be clear in your meaning.

A flashlight using NiCd's will stay at the same relative brightness over the vast percent of discharge period, then grow dim fairly rapidly at the end (the last hour or 1/2 hour.)

Same flashlight using Alk. cells will generate less voltage (less current, less heat, less brightness) relatively evenly over the same period.

-- Robert A. Cook, P.E. (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), February 17, 1999.

"Charge period = time between recharging = discharge period. Or time from "start of use" to "unuseable voltage". Or whatever you want to call it, just be clear in your meaning."

Thank you. I confess I've never heard of the usage time expressed that way. It could get to be confusing, since I get a lot more usage time from the NiCads in my HT than the amount of time it takes to recharge them (charge time). Thanks for the clarification.

LP

-- LP (soldog@hotmail.com), February 17, 1999.