The Possible Divine Reasons Behind Y2K, Disasters & Sufferings? Or Is God Sending Another Supernatural Message To America? By Raymond Kwong 2-10-99

John McTernan, in his book, God's Final Warning to America, has supplied incident after incident where natural disasters, which are increasing, have been associated with national sins in recent years. On the day that the Senate took up the impeachment proceeding, and two days before the President's State of the Union address, "20 tornadoes roared through Arkansas and Tennessee, the home states of the President and the Vice-President. On the day the President's lawyers began a defense of the President, and the day after the State of the Union address, 38 tornadoes roared through Arkansas and Tennessee. Even the Capitol building in Little Rock was trashed. It seems as though God has already cast His vote. As strange as 58 tornadoes in just two states in just four days, it is even more strange in view of the fact that tornadoes in January seldom ever occur, except in the deep south (Florida and south Texas). This past January there were 300 percent more tornadoes than were ever recorded for this month. Again, is God trying to tell us something? It would appear more than coincidental that practically all of the 58 tornadoes visited the home states of our president and vice-president." I was told by a friend who saw ABC news recently the night when the Senate cast the vote not to call live witnesses. When the 51st vote was cast, believe it or not, the TV shows a flash of lightning in the background, and Cookie Roberts was sort of taken back but then sheepishly dismissed it as just a coincidence. Perhaps God wanted Washington to know that He just cast His vote, "Disapproval on the gutless Senate!" I have documented numerous instances of seeming God's displeasure through major earthquakes, floods, fire, hurricanes, tornadoes during or after certain events or legislations... The San Francisco Big One was one recent example. Before we foolishly charge God as cruel, let us not forget His great sacrifice & agonies on the cross in the Person of His only Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.

I am not dogmatically saying that all disasters reveal God's displeasures. Of course not, but perhaps some do. Ultimately only God knows. More frequently, God in His patience & mercy just let us off the hook. But someday everyone, from the president to the pauper, shall stand before the Lord. Daniel Webster said something like, "The greatest thought that ever entered into my mind was the day that I would have to give an account of myself to God".

If you were God and you wish to shake up & wake up a stubborn people who have repeatedly rejected your message & messengers, what would you do? What better ways to get their attention? "But why does it have to hurt?" Because pain maybe a way that God shouts at us. Do not most people avoid the doctor or help until it really hurts? And even after a record number of unprecedented & divers disasters, did the American people get it? I am afraid not. Instead of humbling ourselves before God and doing soul-searching, we tough it out & soon forget about it. "But why does a loving God have to allow disasters to come over & over again?" Well, if you flunked 5th grade, you will have to repeat it, won't you?

The Y2K millenium bug crisis may well be God's clarion call to the world to stop bowing before the god of technology! A modern Dagon is about to tumble, and all the king's horses may not be sufficient to save it. After some 25 years of intensive research into the amazing Bible prophcies, I believe it will not be the end of the world. Calloused men will rebuild the infrastructure and eventually bow before the end time dictator, the Anti-Christ or false Christ, who will head up a New World Economic & Political Order along with a global I.D. system. (Revelation 13:11-18). The Old Order would have to be brought down before a New Order can be built up & welcomed. Mankind never seems to learn from history.

Jesus rebuked the religious leaders,"Do you not discern the signs of the time?" While we should not read too much into news events, most people go about their business without ever seeing things from a divine perspective. I have found some 30 spiritual purposes of trials according to the Bible. After diving deep into the topic of trials & sufferings, there are plenty that I do not & will never understand this side of heaven. One thing seems clear, there are no accidents with God. More often, sufferings are just trials rather than punishments that were meant to drive us to our knees & draw us closer to God. Life's experiences are meant to make us better not bitterer. (Romans 8:18,28).

-- Raymond Kwong (Kcorner67@hotmail.com), February 11, 1999

Answers

Raymond..........Same old same old foolishness.......Do you guys never learn!!

Firstly, there is no correlation whatsoever between specific weather events and human 'sins'. You are using extremely faulty logic. Every day on this planet, someone somewhere commits an atrocity, and somewhere on the globe is a weather problem. Using your logic, because they had a beautiful day in Hawaii yesterday, then no one in Hawaii 'sinned' yesterday. Your whole cause and effect shennanigans is bogus theology to the nth degree

Your posting is a perfect example of someone who is a DGI in the spiritual arena. You seem obsessed with 'being perfected in the flesh' and convinced that God still is ruling under the old covenant that was given to Israel.

To be blunt, if God is still punishing mankind for acts of the flesh, then the whole ordeal on the cross was a mockery in the first degree.

I am clearly aware that I will not convince you, any more than I could explain to a man blind since birth what the colour red is. However, I am tired of all this blaming God for whatever happens with the weather and blaspheming him by accusing him of not accepting the sacrifice of his own son.

If your picture of God is some old pissed off white guy floating in the sky who is never pleased and constantly trying to kill people when they are less than perfect, then you my friend do not have the spirit of truth, no matter what some church told you. Sending a tornado that kills someones child or mother or father does not nor will ever make someone better. That's as stupid as saying that if a man has two children and one is acting up, then the father kills the child to set an example to the other one. That is barbarism my friend. Calling that love only shows the depths of confusion and darkness that surround you.

-- Craig (craig@ccinet.ab.ca), February 11, 1999.

Along those lines, let me recommend Ishmael, by Daniel Quinn.

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), February 11, 1999.

Oh come on?!!! Did you ever hear of GLOBAL WARMING, and POLITICAL WACKOS? We have brought most all of the ills in our lives on ourselves, whether bad weather, or bad politicians.

-- gilda jessie (jess@listbot.com), February 11, 1999.

Our founding fathers may not have taken this so lightly, but it is probably pointless in a wealthy society like ours.

-- Reporter (foo@foo.bar), February 11, 1999.

Uh, Craig. Time to dust off that Bible again. :-)

While I agree that God is loving, merciful and patient beyond all comprehension, He is also holy and just.

You said, "To be blunt, if God is still punishing mankind for acts of the flesh, then the whole ordeal on the cross was a mockery in the first degree."

Just want to set the record straight, not to enter into another long and inconclusive debate with you. Let's take a look at the future for those who have not surrendered their lives in obedience to Jesus Christ, shall we . . .

"Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. The death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. If ayone's name is not written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."

Revelations 20:11-15

Got Jesus?

-- David (David@BankPacman.com), February 11, 1999.

God can punish us if He wants, but generally there's no need. We do it to ourselves, by abusing our bodies, souls, minds, & environment. Why blame a computer flaw on God? We did that ourselves.

For that matter -- Why do we build cities on fault lines? Why do millions of people live on vast flood plains (like Bangladesh)? Why do people live under volcanoes? Why do people practice unsafe sex? Why do people use intravenous drugs, & share needles? Why do we pollute our air, our oceans, our ground water?

We KNOW that doing these things is idiotic, but we do them all the time, & then blame God when it all blows up in our faces. Absurd.

I believe in Christ but I'm not blaming Him for stuff. What's the point? We have 11 months left to prepare. That's a gift from God as far as I can see.

-- stuff is (going@to.happen), February 11, 1999.

Moe: Anyone who believes in God is an idiot.
Joe: You're saying that 90% of everyone is an idiot.
Moe: I rest my case.

NO FRICKIN' CONNECTION WITH "GOD'S WRATH" DELUSIONS.
IT'S JUST HUMAN STUPIDTY, STUPIDS!!"

-- A (A@AisA.com), February 11, 1999.

Raymond: Bravo! To Craig I would suggest: Jesus's sacrifice was sufficient to enable man to be reunited to God, but it didn't end sin, did it? It didn't end suffering, did it? We can unite our sufferings to those of Christ, in order that others can be saved. Why do you think God is unable to communicate to his creation? How else can he get our attention if we're too busy worshipping the false idols (television, money, celebrity, etc.)? Would you have him give up on us? Would you give up on your children? Don't be so quick to judge.

-- Robert Bruce (love@love.com), February 11, 1999.

Take your far-out, far fetched religious crap over to one of the bible thumping boards.

-- Pagan (GoAway@wastingtime.com), February 11, 1999.

Well, here we are again... arguing over god and religion....

God, is nothing but love... PERIOD. We are here to learn about love. Everything happening is happens out of our own collective choosing.

We choose to elect a crooket, raping (Call nbc and tell them to release the interview), drug using, draft dodging president. Now he declares himself King. We CHOSE him...

Now, let's stop discussing religion and find out CORRECT information about this Y2K thing. How can we help our communities...? How can we turn things around...? Let us unite and solve the problems facing us... Not rip us apart... Love one another....

May I suggest the book "Conversations with God" from Neale Donald Walsch.... Try it... you might like it...

And now.. go on... Hug somebody... Just spontanous... for no reason... Show someone you love them... Show the world you are alive...

All you need is love... (and a few sacks of rice, coleman stove...)

-- Saint Francis (STFrancis@heaven.com), February 11, 1999.

Ray - I'm afraid you're underestimating the situation. Y2K isn't just an American thing - it's pretty much world wide, to one degree or another. Personally I'd read it more as a Tower of Babel scenario then anything else. Also, I'm unclear as to whether you're claiming a prophetic word on this or not?

Craig - the shed Blood of Christ only covers those who acknowledge him as Lord and Savior, NOT the whole world. That's the whole point of Christianity. Now that does NOT mean that I attribute every tornado to the wrath of God, but neither do I deny the fact that God can act through such means, should He so choose...and that he does still punish sinners eventually.

To all and sundry non-Christians on the board: please do NOT claim you weren't able to discern that this was a Christian thread from the title of post! Sheesh! ever heard of going on to the next thread?

Arlin Adams

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), February 11, 1999.

I agree with Saint Francis.

I just am tired of one extreme fundie after another calling Y2K a judgement of God and quoting scripture massively out of context to prove it.

The expression "They're like a pig looking at a clock" sums it up nicely. A pig looking at a clock sees the numbers sitting on a round thing and a couple of sticks going round, but has no concept of time, or what numbers are or what the hands do etc........His only thought is "Can I eat this thing".

-- Craig (craig@ccinet.ab.ca), February 11, 1999.

Raymond,

I don't believe in god, so for me, the answer to your question is NO.

Besides, what about all those followers of other gods or no gods around the world who will also be affected by this? Did ALL the gods get together and decide to shake things up?

The fact that you would ask this question proves to me the statement that you make - "Mankind never seems to learn from history. "

-- pshannon (pshannon@inch.com), February 11, 1999.

Yeah Arlin........and EVERY knee shall bough and EVERY tongue confess.....you know the rest. You, like all partialists who actually blaspheme God with their evil beliefs, restrict God to our understanding of time and space. You have no faith to believe that he not only can, but has willed that all will eventually be redeemed.

From the Tentmaker internet site, here's a brief lesson for you:

The early Christians of the first few centuries knew what the Greek word "ta panta" meant. It meant "all." They took Scriptures listed below and believed what they said. To the early Christians, "all" meant "all." This Greek word "ta panta" meant "all" in the Greek and it means "all" in the English. Unfortunately, we live in a time when man calls good, evil and evil, good.

To the modern church, "all" does not mean "all." As a matter of fact, "all" in many evangelical churches means "some" or "very few." Below are listed a few of the many plain scriptures which no longer mean what they say. Should you decide to believe these plain Scriptures, you will find yourself among the "remnant." The majority of the church has long since abandoned the simplicity and power of the "Original Good News." The remnant will embrace perfect love and cast out fear and live in a new world. Now study these Scriptures in their proper context and see the full salvation of our wonderful Father. We realize a Scripture referring to all trees cannot be meant to imply all human beings. But if the Greek for all things includes both trees and human beings, we must then include human beings. Look at the following Scriptures through all of our Heavenly Father's attributes, Omnipotence, Omniscience, Omnipresence, and Justice beautifully and harmoniously clothe His nature which is Love. Then rejoice!

1Tim 2:4-God will have all to be saved-Can His will be thwarted? 1Tim 2:4-God desires all to come to the knowledge of truth-Will His desire come to pass? 1Tim 2:6-Salvation of all is testified in due time-Are we judging God before due time? Jn 12:47-Jesus came to save all-Will He succeed? Eph 1:11-God works all after the counsel of His will-Can your will overcome His? Jn 4:42-Jesus is Savior of the world-Can He be Savior of all without saving all? 1Jn 4:14-Jesus is Savior of the world-Why don't we believe it? Jn 12:32-Jesus will draw all mankind unto Himself-To roast or to love? Col 1:16-By Him all were created-Will He lose a part of His creation? Rm 5:15-21-In Adam all condemned, in Christ all live-The same all? 1Cor 15:22-In Adam all die, in Christ all live-Again, the same all? Eph 1:10-All come into Him at the fulness of times-Are you getting tired of seeing the word, all? Phl 2:9-11-Every tongue shall confess Jesus is Lord-Will the Holy Spirit be given to everyone? 1Cor 12:3-Cannot confess except by Holy Spirit-See what I mean? Rm 11:26-All Israel will be saved-But most Jews don't believe yet! Acts 3:20,21-Restitution of all-How plain can you get? Luke 2:10-Jesus will be joy to all people-Is there joy is "hell"? Heb 8:11,12- All will know God-How long, O Lord? Eph 2:7-His grace shown in the ages to come-Have we judged Him before the time? Titus 2:11-Grace has appeared to all-Experientially or prophetically? Rm 8:19-21-Creation set at liberty-How much of creation? Col 1:20-All reconciled unto God-There's that word "all" again. 1Cor 4:5-All will have praise of God-What for? Jms 5:11-End of the Lord is full of mercy-Is "hell" mercy? Rev 15:4-All nations worship when God's judgments are seen-Could His judgment be mercy? Rm 11:32-All subject to unbelief, mercy on all-All? Rm 11:36-All out of, through, and into Him-ALL into Him? Eph 4:10-Jesus will fill all things-Including "hell?" Rev 5:13-All creation seen praising God-Including Satan? 1Cor 15:28-God will be all in all-What does that mean, preacher? Rev 21:4,5-No more tears, all things made new-ALL made new? Jn 5:25-All dead who hear will live-How many will hear? Jn 5:28-All in the grave will hear & come forth-How will the "righteous" judge, judge? 1 Cor 3:15-All saved, so as by fire-How can fire save you? Mk 9:49-Everyone shall be salted with fire-Including you? Rm 11:15-Reconciliation of the world-Will fire save the world instead of destroy it? 2Cor 5:15-Jesus died for all-Did He died in vain? Jn 8:29-Jesus always does what pleases His Father-What pleases the Father? (1Tim 2:4) Heb 1:2-Jesus is Heir of all things-Does "things" include people? Jn 17:2-Jesus gives eternal life to all that His Father gave Him-How many did the Father give Him? Jn 3:35-The Father gave Him all things-(Repeated for emphasis) Study the word "things" in the Greek. 1 Tim 4:9-11-Jesus is Savior of all!-Can't seem to get away from that word "all." Heb. 7:25-Jesus is able to save to the uttermost-How far is "uttermost?" 1Cor 15:26-Last enemy, death, will be destroyed-Including "lake of fire" which is "second death?" Is 46:10-God will do all His pleasure-Does Old Testament agree with the New? Gen 18:18-All families of the earth will be blessed-Here comes that word "all" again. Dan 4:35-God's will done in heaven and earth-What can defeat His will? Ps 66:3,4-Enemies will submit to God-Can any stay rebellious in "hell?" Ps 90:3-God turns man to destruction, then says return-How can one return from "destruction?" Is 25:7-Will destroy veil spread over all nations-All nations? Deut 32:39-He kills and makes alive-Kills to bring life? Ps 33:15-God fashions all hearts-"All" hearts, including men like "Hitler?" Prv 16:9-Man devises, God directs his steps-What about "free will?" Prv 19:21-Man devises, but God's counsel stands-So much for "free will." La 3:31,32-God will not cast off forever-Why does He cast off in the first place? (1 Cor 11) Is 2:2-All nations shall flow to the Lord's house-ALL nations? Ps 86:9-All nations will worship Him-ALL nations! Is 45:23-All descendants of Israel justified-Including the wicked ones? Ps 138:4-All kings will praise God-Are you catching on? Ps 65:2-4-All flesh will come to God-That sounds wondrous. Ps 72:18-God only does wondrous things-I wish we would believe that. Is 19:14,15-Egypt & Assyria will be restored-Really? Ezk 16:55-Sodom will be restored to former estate-Sounds impossible. Jer 32:17-Nothing is too difficult for Him-Nothing? No, nothing! Ps 22:27-All ends of the earth will turn to Him-For what purpose? Ps 22:27-All families will worship before Him-Praise His name! Ps 145:9-He is good to all-Including your worst enemies. Ps 145:9-His mercies are over all his works-Let's start believing that. Ps 145:14-He raises all who fall-Who hasn't fallen in sin? Ps 145:10-All His works will praise Him-For "eternal torment?" Is 25:6-Lord makes a feast for all people-And you are invited. Jer 32:35-Never entered His mind to torture his children with fire. This came from the carnal mind. Jn 6:44-No one can come to Him unless He draws them. You can't "chose" to follow Him. Jn 12:32-I will draw all mankind unto Myself-Amen!!! Ps 135:6-God does what pleases Him-If it pleases Him to save all that He might be in all, are you upset?

-- Craig (craig@ccinet.ab.ca), February 11, 1999.

Lord, make me an instrument of Your peace. Where there is hatred, let me sow love; where there is injury, pardon; where there is doubt, faith; where there is despair, hope; where there is darkness, light; and where there is sadness, joy.

O Divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled as to console; to be understood as to understand; to be loved as to love; for it is in pardoning that we are pardoned; and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life.

-- (s@f.a), February 11, 1999.

Oh OK. So that's how theology works?? You find select scriptures, take them out of context, apply very strange logic, and ignore the remaining body of scriptures so as not to disturb the overall conclusion that you want to form. Thanks for such a fine example Craig.

You must have a hard time reading your Bible. Ya know, having to skip so many verses that contradict your beliefs and all.

Still, you haven't addressed Revelations 20:11-15??? There's a ton of others, but that will suffice. So if God will redeem EVERYone, just who is it that's being thrown into the lake of fire?

I'm sure you'll provide an interesting response that twists the truth pretty well, but I thought I'd ask anyway.

-- David (David@BankPacman.com), February 11, 1999.

Um, Craig, that would be ... and EVERY knee shall bow

-- Blue Himalayan (bh@k2.y), February 11, 1999.

Uh, Craig - - lighten up on Ray huh?

I'd much rather have folks turning to the only written word that claims to be the inspired word of God and searching for Truth and understanding, seeing evil for what it is - - than to rely on the gods of man and technology for salvation and solace.

How do you know the Creator didn't allow the recent weather catastrophes to "shake us up?"

A loving Father disciplines his disobedient child, even harshly.

Give the Health/Wealth gospel a rest.

-- INVAR (gundark@aol.com), February 11, 1999.

Your god will string 'em up by the gonads, right Invar?

-- (not@a.hypocrite), February 11, 1999.

Craig,

Yes, God's salvation is offered for the whole world. Anyone can be saved, but most don't want to be if it means doing things God's way.

Matthew 7:13-23 "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. [14] But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. [15] "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. [16] By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? [17] Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. [18] A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. [19] Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. [20] Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. [21] "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. [22] Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' [23] Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

-- James Chancellor (publicworks1@bluebonnet.net), February 11, 1999.

Lets turn the light on, follow the links, photos an all

http://haarp.com/

-- moose (tkh@earthlink.net), February 11, 1999.

James....

You've just demonstrated that you don't have a clue about what Jesus' message was......what he was trying to say......and to whom it was addressed

You're too steeped in the traditions of man to be taught...

You have no understanding of the different 'ages' that scripture refers to.....

You have no grasp on the damage that western fundie interpretation has done to the good name of God.....

You think the will of man is superior to the will of God.....

Go on in your blindness, and worship your image of God, one in which billions of feeling human beings who were created by God their father, have nothing to look forward to but to be tortured endlessly....

Your perverted beliefs make me sick quite frankly.......and they should make sick the heart of anyone who believes in love and the real image of God.

-- Craig (craig@ccinet.ab.ca), February 11, 1999.

Dearest Nota--

No, no, no, no. You got it all wrong. God isn't quite so cruel as to do the Scrotum String-up.

But now man on the other hand.......

Ever hear of an Iron Maiden??

Just curious. Man has such a titillating history of unique inventions to induce torture.

I personally felt for our mutual amusement on this forum that we apply the magic of imagination to the trolls that doth infest us.

FYI: there's nothing in scripture to illustrate Scrotum stretching as divine punishment, but stoning I doubt tickled.

-- INVAR (gundark@aol.com), February 11, 1999.

Click here to see what Craig believes. This has all been covered before.

Same song, second verse

-- Getting tired of this (seen@it.before), February 11, 1999.

I told ya'll that INVAR was a WACKO.

Hang 'em by the balls, read 'em the Bible. They'll come around in heartfelt repentance or else!

"Or else what?"

The Iron Maiden! Red hot pokers! The rack!

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), February 11, 1999.

Damn it Deedah!!!

Where exactly did I suggest Bungee Balls as a vehicle for repentance , confession or attentive bible study???

The answer: NEVER

The Scrotum Swing is simply a method of Troll relief. Religious convictions are immaterial. Penile Pendulums are reserved for nasty forum posters that sign as a fatty fried DWGI doughball.

The really nasty recesses of my sick imagination have been focused on devising a topper for The Duke of recent forum fame.

You haven't read anything yet pal. I'm sure you'll find it quite revolting. You'll love it!

Fitting for a troll.

-- INVAR (gundark@aol.com), February 11, 1999.

Religious nuts bother me. Been kicked out of three Church things and will not go back. However, I think there is much to be gleaned from the verses of the Greatest Book ever written. For Pagans to. They are generally the easiest to convert to The God of Israel. Jesus is his name. and another name (Exo 15:3 KJV) "The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name."

Isa 26:20 KJV) "Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast."

(Isa 26:21 KJV) "For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain."

-- Mark Hillyard (foster@inreach.com), February 11, 1999.

Mark, cut the crap. All that trash you posted under the name of freeman has cost you any credibility at all.

-- You're two faced (stop@spouting.scripture), February 11, 1999.

Ain't that the truth!

-- Willy (he's@dork.com), February 11, 1999.

"I think I could turn and live with animals, they are so placid and self-contain'd, I stand and look at them long and long. They do not sweat and whine about their condition, They do not lie awake in the dark and weep for their sins, They do not make me sick discussing their duty to God, Not one is dissatisfied, not one is demented with the mania of owning things, Not one kneels to another, nor to his kind that lived thousands of years ago, Not one is respectable or unhappy over the whole earth. Walt Whitman (from The Song of Myself)

-- gilda jessie (jess@listbot.com), February 11, 1999.

Gilda,

You're beautiful.

E.

-- E. Coli (nunayo@beeswax.com), February 11, 1999.

I am glad this is America where we can agree to disagree. I just hope there is a little more civility. I was just speaking truth ( according to my limited understanding of the Bible) in love. I don't think some of you read my piece carefully. I wrote," I am not dogmatically saying that all disasters reveal God's displeasures. Of course not, but perhaps some do. Ultimately only God knows. More frequently, God in His patience & mercy just let us off the hook."

Neither did I say the Bible or God says Y2K is His Judgement on pride in technology, did I? I said Y2k "may well be". If God is God , is he not omniscience or He could tell the future? He knew that by 2000, mankind will have become so decadent, arrogant, sel-sufficient that we think "In this Computer age, who but a nut would need God! or Technology & human ingenuity will solve all problem!" Again w/o being dogmatic about this, but speculating.Could Y2K shake up our overconfidence a bit? Could it be a blessing in disguise, to cause us to perhaps reevaluate our value system? What's most important to us? Our Adult electronic toys, luxuries, materialism or our family, neighbors & friends?

I know when I posted this controversial article, I risk being misunderstood or even maligned. There is no way I can even attempt to weakly explain the mysterious ways of God in a few paragraphs. I have studied the Bible for almost 30 years, having spent scores of hours studying the mystery of pain & sufferings. There is much I do not comprehend. If God is God , He is Sovereign & He can do as He will.

I did not want to get into the other reasons of human suffering. Please do not misunderstand that I meant God is responsible or to be blamed for all the troubles in the world. That's silly. Men is responsible for perhaps most of the sufferings, then you have Satan & his fallen angels. Let's not get into another argument. I have scores of personal experiences dealing with supernatural, evil forces or demons if you will. The book of Job in the Old Testament attribute Job's sufferings to God allowing (that's different from wanting) Satan to attack the righteous Job. So I never said that God is behind all bad things. If one does not accept the literal interpretation of the Bible, then it is a waste of time to argue. You will explain away all the miraculous judgements of God in Exodus, the 10 plaques on Egypt, the judgements on sinful lifestyle in Genesis 19 or the numerous mention of future earthquakes, pestilence, great hail stones, etc. in Revelation. If you choose to disbelieve the supernatural, then this thread will be meaningless or even silly to you. I could easily refute many of the points mentioned earlier, but my purpose was simply to provoke thinking, at least those who have an open mind. I am not interested in getting personal or engage in nasty exchange. If you doubt God & all this stuff, you are welcomed to start your own thread. But I love you all.

-- Raymond (Kcorner67@hotmail.com), February 11, 1999.

er, Craig, I'm sorry but since we already know from Revelation that there are humans who are NOT saved, your arguments are moot...not surprising since you've decontextualized your references, and therefore eliminated their validity. Moreover the site you quoted is in direct contradiction of the writings of the early church fathers, and is NOT consistent with orthodox Christianity. It was heresy then, and I'm afraid it's still heresy today.

Arlin Adams

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), February 12, 1999.

Where's George Burns when you need him?

-- CP (Spoonman@prodigy.net), February 12, 1999.

I fear George Burns is suffering agony in Hell, awaiting damnation at the Great White Throne Judgment. :(

-- dinosaur (dinosaur@williams-net.com), February 13, 1999.

Mark, cut the crap. All that trash you posted under the name of freeman has cost you any credibility at all.

-- You're two faced (stop@spouting.scripture), February 11, 1999.

Thanks! I was wondering (if you read one of my posts) how long it would take for someone to figure out who I was. I didn't think it would take too long. Good one.

I am not two faced. Some posts are non biblical and some are biblical. If I did not post the biblical with my name then I would be two faced, or ashamed. I am not and I think people on this forum are very astute.

(Rom 1:16 KJV) "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."

God Bless you my child...dripping with honey!

-- Mark Hillyard (foster@inreach.com), February 13, 1999.

Ive observed many humans try to remake God in their own image. Daily.

The Divine is probably laughing at us muddling around in limitations of our own creation. Any loving Father/Mother would encourge toddlers to find our own way out of the box. Then maybe wed learn something valuable.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), February 14, 1999.