Why the big "disconnect"?greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread
Based on what I am seeing of the latest FORUM POLL (a few messages earlier), the poll is averaging-out at about 8+. An 8 is pretty bad. Real bad. As a few commented, once things get to 8, sliding into 10+ is pretty easy.
Are we nuts, or is the rest of the world? There is a HUGE disconnect between what we seem to think will happen, and what 99% of the American public thinks. Naturally, this is a rhetorical question, but it just strikes me as odd that so few GI. In centuries past, "everyone" knew the world was flat (of course, "everyone" was wrong). It could happen again.
Hopefully, we're all a bunch of paranoid fruit-cakes!!!
-- Anonymous99 (Anonymous99@anonymous.com), February 08, 1999
Believe me, I will gladly wear a sign that says "Fruitcake", if Y2K turns out to be what The Rest Of The World perceives! A very small price to pay.
I think that one thing everyone should pretty much be in agreement on is that The Rest Of The World simply has not seriously considered Y2K, nor for that matter had a serious treatment of Y2K presented to them (Vanity Fair readers possibly excepted). We have had entire threads revolve around why this is the case, so there is no point in trying to re-hash over it. But the reality is that John Q. Public still only has a very small understanding of the implications of the Y2K problem, and based on what is presented in Time magazine et al, certainly has no reason to feel that it is anything worth being overly concerned about.
-- Jack (email@example.com), February 08, 1999.
And conversely, a good topic would be, "Why the CONNECT among the Yourdon/North/Whoever people? What characteristics do we possess so that we DO GI?"
What's the common genome?
-- Lisa (firstname.lastname@example.org), February 08, 1999.
Reason: The average person is congenitally stupid, willfully ignorant, resolutely greedy, iredeemably nasty, with the imagination of toads, the abstracting ability of flatworms, and the aesthetic sensibilities of maggots. Now ask me how I really feel ;)
-- a (A@AisA.com), February 08, 1999.
"What's the common genome?"
Possibly a very simple one -- survival.
Possibly a not-so-simple one -- relatively high resistance to hypnosis.
Or both of these together.
-- Tom Carey (email@example.com), February 08, 1999.
We are not wrong, we are early. And don't joke about Fruitcake. -:)
-- Rob Michaels (firstname.lastname@example.org), February 08, 1999.
Since WWII, the public has been on notice that it will be routinely lied to about matters of importance, and that it is the public's duty to believe those lies without complaint. It's a matter of national security, and we must all do our part by looking the other way. That presidential assassination? Turn your head, junior; don't look. The murder of black leadership who stepped away from race and dangerously close to "social justice" issues? Just more crime in the streets, kids; nothing to see here. Military tests on unwitting subjects? Psychopharmacological and electronic mind control? Delusional! ("get out your aluminum foil hats, ha-ha. But whatever you do, don't do any research on the topic..."). Secret bombings. Secret burglaries. Drug running, and running the drug runners, on a global scale, to finance covert operations. Playing off mideast nations against one another, selling arms to both, then sending US troops into the mess, to kill and die. Sattellite and missle technology sold to China - while they threaten to nuke LA if we interfere in their planned rape of Taiwan. Chinese Communist corporations given leave to operate on US soil, and in soon to be in charge of the Panama Canal - while Congress, the Senate and the media cartel distract us with presidential pornography. Our Constitution being whittled away, it's legal authority openly attacked by UN globalists, with impunity; our civil liberties dwindling until we ever more closely resemble the Chinese Communist slaves whose masters threaten and defy us. Our nation has been sold out from under us, and we're told we should be proud that the U.S. is exporting freedom and democracy to China. All the while, the importation of socialist state-slavery on U.S. soil proceeds according to plan.
We are like a tired old dog being given a rubber bone. We chew furiously, but get nowhere. We've lost the will to hunt - for the truth. We've been TRAINED not to hunt, and now, if we don't fight for our lives, we're going to be starved for the truth for a long, long time.
The truth about Y2k? The American public shouts as one: "Don't tell us the truth! WE CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!"
-- E. Coli (email@example.com), February 08, 1999.
Anyone who can't look around and see that this country has "dumbed down" isn't looking very closely. Too many Americans are not only willing, but eager to swallow the swill spoon fed them by the government and the lapdog media. It has been a 40- to 50-year process, done incrementally, but it HAS been done. I think most of those on this and similar forums have, for whatever reason, held onto whatever characteristic it is that contributes to free, independent thought.
-- Vic (Roadrunner@compliant.com), February 08, 1999.
Maybe it's because those of us who believe that it will be more like a 3-5 get tired of being called buttheads, pollyannas, idiots, etc. so we stop posting here.
-- many smart people expect (firstname.lastname@example.org), February 08, 1999.
I hope your right about being paranoid fruitcakes. Unfortunately, I doubt that you are. Why are the majority of Americans refusing to acknowledge the potential threat....because it's the easy way out. Who in their right mind wants the responsibility that goes with knowing that we are teetering on the edge of disaster? My wife and children mock me , thinking that this is mid-life crisis. Most of my co-workers think I've been working too hard or started drinking. I was definitely happier before I discovered this mess. On a happier note, I think I'm moving into the next stage...acceptance. Being prepared really helps. Let 'em laugh at my wheat. If I'm right, they can kiss my hoarding ass. If I'm wrong, they can kiss my money saving ass. I've started telling my co-workers that I've moved my stash to an undisclosed friends house in the country. I've warned them as much as I can and now I wash my hands of them. Sign me.."still a little bitter but getting better"
-- (email@example.com), February 08, 1999.
Listen folks. Don't let your pitiful little vanity get in the way of (1) Preparing for your family and (2) Spreading the word. If this thing might get really bad, then damn the naysayers. They are but a speck of dust. Let people laugh. Fine. If you know anything about sales, you know that you have to hear the word "no" seven times before you finally get a "yes." If you let one or two or three "no's" from one person or group thwart you, then you are either pitiful and weak *or* you don't really, really, really believe that this thing could be bad; in other words you're just playing around because its cool and entertaining to contemplate Armegeddon, even if it's only fiction. Where are you?
-- Puddintame (firstname.lastname@example.org), February 08, 1999.
Naturally, this is a rhetorical question, but it just strikes me as odd that so few GI.
Here's the simple answer, from Inside Dope , Scenes from the life of an officer on the narcoties beat New Yorker Magazine, Feb 1 1999:
You read the block, seeing who moves and who stands still, their reactions and relations to one another; you sift the players from the idlers, the buyers from the passersby. Most people occupy their environment blithely, with only a slack and occasional awareness of their surroundings. A store window or a noisy garbage truck might distract them in passing, and they might look around before crossing the street, but the ordinary pedestrian is a poster child for daydreams and tunnel vision.
-- Runway Cat (email@example.com), February 08, 1999.
WE can read. WE can type. WE can contruct whole sentences. WE can reason.
Read Plato's CAVE analogy.
-- Mary P. (CAgdma@home.com), February 08, 1999.
In order to become a GI (late summer when *nobody* dared to discuss it), I first had to agree to the isolation of living in a parallel universe. Society is making it more acceptable to GI now. I wouldn't call myself a survivor since I am not preparing for the level of problem I expect and I'm not functioning very well as things are. I'm also pretty mainstream in my thinking, so it took a while to check out those survivalist sites, I didn't think I was that "type". For me, it was a double barrage on Art Bell (Yourdon, then North), and then checking out North's site. I have refined my assessment since that time with fewer swings in expectation, but never really looked back.
-- Brooks (firstname.lastname@example.org), February 08, 1999.
People are too dumb to see the connection between cause and effect. Back in the early days of the auto industry, Henry Ford raised the wages of all of his employees to $5 a day which was a lot of money then. People asked him why? He said that he gave his employees these raises so that they would have enough money to buy his cars. It worked. Modern day management, on the other hand, slashes the number of employees, closes plants, ships jobs overseas, cuts pay and benefits and then wonders why the workers are not motivated. Profits go up temporarily, additional hamburger flipper jobs are created and the new jobs are announced as great news, and the stock market goes up, profit figures are manipulated and increased by accounting tricks and the economy is great. People are borrowing money like crazy, have no savings, and are "investing" in the Ponzi scheme stock market. Y2k will bring it all down. Whatever happened to intelligent managers? They didn't increase profits fast enough and were fired. What a shame. The general public is too dumbed down to figure out what is happening. In 11 months they will wake up after the music has stopped playing.
-- Steve (sadbuttrue@ notstupid.com), February 08, 1999.
You can't ask someone's opinion on something if they don't know anything about it. Many of us have been following this BB and other sites for many many months. You can ask us the questions because most of us are educated and informed as to what we can expect. If you watch the news and when they ask people on the street what they think about Y2K and it's impact on them, they smile and say nothing is going to happen, or "it's party time." I don't think we're paranoid fruitcakes, just people thinking sensibly.
-- bardou (email@example.com), February 08, 1999.
Puddintane, I can't say that I appreciate being called vain, pitiful and weak but I have to admit that your're probably right. I was feeling a little low at the time. It gets discouraging sometimes but I know that I'll continue to prepare for me, my family and the stupid neighbors. And I'll continue to preach to anyone who'll listen. I would still recommend caution when talking to people. I refuse to stop believing in the basic goodness of people but there are a few predatory types out there. So I'll still tell people that my stuff is elsewhere...a little white lie but I'll feel safer.
-- (firstname.lastname@example.org), February 08, 1999.
I think you all probably read Cory's last report #109 and saw the 'first predator report'... I had read that and my DGI brother from out of state was here (to see my dad before he died)... there we were 2 sisters and 2 brothers sitting at the dinning room table and the three GI's telling the one DGI why....what for...and for how long.... He at first jokes and says, 'well one way or another I'll get what I need to take care of my family....' I look at him and tell him what those words really meant...that he will be what we consider to be a predator... that absolutely freaked him, when he saw himself through the mirror of my eyes and how I may have to deal with someone with that attitude in my own neighborhood, or rather my own back yard. It was sobering... He called the next day and asked me to send him a list so he wouldn't have to waste time reinventing the wheel....
-- Shelia (email@example.com), February 08, 1999.
Dumb or numb? Dumbed down (as Vic has said) or numbed down? I think people are numbed down - cranially anesthesized by the comforts they've come to depend on for their happiness, status, and identity. Maybe we "get it" because our happinesss, status, and identity doesn't depend on these things, but things of a higher nature like knowledge, truth, awareness, adaptability, and curiosity to name a few.
-- shivermetimbers (firstname.lastname@example.org), February 08, 1999.
Hey, I bet if there's one thing most of us on this site can agree on - it's the interconnectivity that makes y2k the problem it is. Those of us who GI, GI because, for some reason, we can think/visualize systemically. Now, start thinking even larger. This particular problem (y2k) was not produced in a vacuum; lack of systemic thinking lies at the heart of it and is what produced the problem in the first place.
The problems inherent in our current economy (see Reserve Banking discussions), the problems crippling our environment, on and on (we all know them) - are ALL the result of SHORTSIGHTED thinking, of not thinking systemically. So - it's no surprise to me that most people DGI, including politicians and industry heads, who have profited hugely by using shortsighted managment practices.
If I had my way, everybody in this country (ESPECIALLY the pols and CEOs) would have have to spend a chunk of time reading and discussing Wendell Berry and his decision-making models.
(Finally decided to do more than just lurk here at this site. All your voices are becoming important to me, in my fairly lonely emmersion into this subject. Thanks to all of you who contribute so much.)
-- cat (email@example.com), February 08, 1999.
Great post cat. I agree with you totally. It's not about intelligence, it's about the way people look at reality. I got a huge surprise when I told one of my friends about the problem, he was a sub-C student in high school and still works at Pizza Hut. He immediately grasped the problem with interconnectivity. The next day, I went to get a free pizza and two of his friends approached me to ask about the problem. None of these guys are brain surgeons (thank god) and they GI immediately. None of them have much money but they're buying extra canned food. Now if I could only get my college friend to even respond to me on the subject...
-- d (firstname.lastname@example.org), February 08, 1999.
Why do we "get it" and others don't? Each person here seems to have some sense of history. To know the past, helps one know the future. We do not know what will happen, but we all know IT CAN HAPPEN. Most of the population thinks, "it can't happen to us". They are wrong and will always be wrong. History does repeat itself, and the dark ages or depression could be around the corner. Make peace with those thoughts and you may survive.
-- Bill (email@example.com), February 08, 1999.
Back to the question "why the disconnect?"
Every internet poll you ever see is more or less meaningless, because the electorate is self-selected. Also on this group, there's no proof of identity needed so anyone who wanted to could tilt the results any way he wanted to.
6 or 7, in case you were wondering.
-- Nigel Arnot (firstname.lastname@example.org), February 09, 1999.
Who are you to sit in judgement about the intellect of others while patting yourself on the back about how smart you are? I was a part of a generation of free thinkers and consciousness raising. It didn't mean we were any smarter than any other group; just that we opened ours mouths more often. Get off your high horse.
-- Maria (email@example.com), February 09, 1999.
You can honestly ask this question??????
-- (GotIt@HypeIt.com), February 09, 1999.