Are we not looking deep enough? : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

This is just one of many sites that I and others have found. It would appear that the powers that be are looking to radically change OUR lifestyle. SOON. Could we all be involved in the smoke screen, while the REAL threat to our freedom is putting everything into place? Could the crisis that we are attributing to y2k be orchestrated sooner so that everyone is caught off guard, so there is no time to organize? Could the elite be preparing for a killing field here in the US, with the understanding that it will be NECESSARY in order to bring about the required change? I would like to know if others of you have found similar sites. If so, what are they? And if so, why does no one mention it?

-- sam (we', February 05, 1999


This article strikes me as a bit "off-the-deep-end", but the threat of a global financial meltdown (debt bubble bursts), substantial growth of NWO (UN/NATO led one-world government) or use of "weapons of mass destruction" is a real possibility. The problem seems to me worse now due to the accelerated rate of global change.

Personally, I think Y2K could be "the straw that breaks the camel's back" for the global economy. That is one of the basis of the Milne/Infomagic scenerios.

To go into Bilderbergs & Trilateral commissions, though, invites flames. I don't seek the heat.

-- Anonymous99 (, February 05, 1999.


Conspiracy theories are as old as the hills, and if these groups are as dangerous as some think, they probably would have made their move a long time ago.

On the other hand, if a depression starts in 2000, the danger would be if the public were willing to trade their constitutional rights to be protected from looters. Or maybe we'd all have to be in some new all-purpose database to receive food and water rations.

-- Kevin (, February 05, 1999.

It seems to me that the NWO scene isn't something that is upcoming, it is something we have been living through at least since WWWII. We don't notice our bondage because of the provided distractions (and when we pay our credit cards or mortgage ;->). Y2k will be the event that is going to hand our lives back to us.

-- Mitchell Barnes (, February 05, 1999.

* Conspiracy theories are as old as the hills *

And so are conspiracies. They started when the first Neanderthal picked up a rock, looked at it in wonderment, then planted it in another's brain.

-- fly .:. (.@...), February 05, 1999.


Thanks for bringing this to the forum......I happen to fully agree with your questions.......however, it seems from the responses, at least thus far, that have been posted, that people don't want to look at the deeper possibilities.

Either they don't want the 'heat', they prefer to dismiss the possibility completely, or they just 'can't see the forest for the trees'.

Sorta reminds me of the Y2K have 'GI's', 'DGI's', and you have 'DWGI's'

It might be easier being and 'Ostrich', but I guess I tend to be too much of a 'Nibs**t, to keep my head buried in the sand.......of course, sticking my neck out could be hazardous to my health too I suppose.........but still think I'll take my chances with that......they can only kill me once!!!


-- Paul & Sandy Stambaugh (, February 05, 1999.

Hi Sam,

I spent a bit over 14 years on the inside of military intelligence, and I have to tell you, that the problem with all of these NWO type theories is that they *assume* there is only one group of human manipulators. Experience says that this is not the case, and that there are in fact a large number of disparate groups who are *all* attempting to manipulate situations to their own advantage.

It ain't anywhere near as simple as any of the conspiracy theorists think it is, for which we should all thank God! You see the various competing groups are fairly vicious and simply will not cooperate with each other for any length of time, thus making it largely impossible for any of them to succeed.

Arlin Adams

-- Arlin H. Adams (, February 05, 1999.


Just have one problem with your analogy.......within the 'big four'(CFR, Trilateral Commission, Bilderbergs, and World Economic Forum), there are SEVERAL of the same 'Elite People' involved......

I don't agree that they are fighting among themselves, I rather think, they are all planning together, but WANT to CONFUSE people with exactly what you propose.........

It's called 'Mass Mind Control'.........and don't for a minute think that they don't use it for their best advantage!!!!!!!!


-- Paul & Sandy Stambaugh (, February 05, 1999.

Funny you should mention Parascope. It's an entertaining site with some terrific writing at times.

Grand conspiracies? I'm with Arlin. From my experience (family members in Arlin's former line of work), people rise to their level of incompetence (Peter Principle) in every field of human endeavour. Their conflicting incompetencies (there's a $5 phrase) make large-scale multilateral secret evil-doing a bit implausible to me.

Humans are hard-wired to try to impose order upon chaos. Which is also why the Y2K issue is so maddening.

"Paranoia strikes deep. Into your life it will creep it starts when your always afraid, step outa line, the Man comes and takes you away....

Stephen Stills? Buffalo Springfield?

From the Master Of The Boss Key-

-- Lewis (, February 05, 1999.

Arlin, I too was involved with the Gov't for a while. I too have seen behind the veil. I don't agree with you at all. To give you an example, our whole group KNEW that Reagan would be elected. Way before the primaries. I have seen more than I ever wanted to. If one thing is obvious, no one gets anywhere in politics without the backing of these groups. That is not the issue to me. The issue is that these groups are planning and manipulating a scenario that is totally plausable. They don't care how many casualties are racked up as long as they stay in power! Thinning the heard-consolidating control-All very do-able now. If you think about it, it WASN'T do-able till now. The masses are asleep or numb. I don't like what I'm typing, but I haven't seen any facts to disprove the facts that these sites are providing.

-- sam (we', February 05, 1999.

I have to agree with Sam and Paul&Sandy. The money-power behind these disparate, often warring, groups is the same. Not only do they allow conflict between their hyra-heads, they cultivate it, to achieve conditions of chaos from which to bring about the type of "order" which interests them at any given stage of their endeavor. This includes the World Wars, which they financed - so we know what they're capable of. The imposition of order is not their primary goal; their goal is gain. Consolidation of control. The irony is that this tactic is also used within the groups that are being manipulated: they play individuals and factions off against eachother, create false enemies to compete with real enemies for the loyalties of the populace, etc.. There really is a worldwide system of control. But it is more like a garden than a machine; ideologies and organizations are allowed to grow, but their growth is always constrained, turned to the gardeners' purpose and overall objective. What controls all these organizations? Money. They need it. Even if they are criminals, they need to launder it. Who controls Money? The banks. Who controls banks? The central banking system, which is international. Who controls that? Very, very rich people. Invisibly rich, some. Richer than whole countries, many. They are very old families, and they intermarry, to "keep it in the family." That these people exist is no question. Do they, via universities, foundations, intelligence groups and organized crime, influence and control government policies to further their long-term familial interests? Naahhh! They just buy big cars and go to Vegas and gamble a lot - hey, wouldn't you? (bad-a-boom!)


-- E. Coli (, February 05, 1999.

In answer to the title question "Are we not looking deep enough?"

My unqualified answer is YES.

You are NOT looking deep enough. And the sad part is that it's not all that hard to look deep.

One doesn't have to contrive conspiracy theories. Go do you homework. The CFR and the TriLateral commission both publish magazines (and have for years). In their PUBLIC documents they spell out in pain staking detail what their plans and goals for Amreican are.

The CFR magazine is on the racks at most large magazine dealers. You will not find it at the checkout stand at the grocery. But it's there in the public venue. (oh, lord, I almost said "the truth is out there").

If you have definite beliefs about what the founding fathers thought America was about you should have a slop bucket hand cause you will probably throw up when you start reading their venom.

Oh, they couch all of it in the most civil, caring, and compasionate terms but there is no doubt what their agenda is.

I got sick of reading their putresence several years ago and quit buying the things.

If you will go to the trouble to inform yourself you will find that the large majority of what are commonly called conspiricy theories are NOT, they are PLANS - articulated and described for all to see.

Diane, why don't you do some of that digging you're so very good at and see if they are on the web?

Greybear - who got over the bitterness years ago, but who is SURE of who the enemies of freedom are.

-- Greybear (, February 05, 1999.


Thank you......I had begun to wonder if you were going to just ignore this thread.........:):)

Sure they drive big cars and spend a time in Vegas.....why not, it's like going home......of course, so is Europe......they spend a lot of time there too.......and while they're there, they also spend some time deciding what the rest of the world is going to do for the next 6 months or year........


-- Paul & Sandy Stambaugh (, February 05, 1999.

Arlin wrote: there are in fact a large number of disparate groups who are *all* attempting to manipulate situations to their own advantage.

I agree with Arlin.

When the fix is equal, justice prevails.


-- Runway Cat (, February 05, 1999.

Some of these responses have reminded me of a poster I once saw. It said:

"Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you."

And one of my personal addages is "Be careful of asking questions you don't want the answers to, You just might get them."

Most people don't really want to know how "unfree" "We the People" have really become. For myself, I choose to ask the difficult questions and am willing to risk the answers.


-- Paul & Sandy Stambaugh (, February 05, 1999.

I don't think anybody here would dispute that seperating Americans from their guns is a prime goal of the powers that be who control our government. If you don't agree that this is so then you are a DGI. Now what is the tried and true method of attaining this goal with the least discomfort to your side? Simple restrict the food supply and institute a food for guns program. This has worked in Cuba and many other countries.

Without presenting a new conspiracy it is worth mentioning that foreign military equipment has been coming into this country in large quantities since 1994 per documentation, photos from many people in many parts of this country. If these pictures were not from so many people in diverse parts of the country I would dismiss it as pranks and conspiracy theory. Draw your own conclusions.

-- Nick (nick@no.mail), February 05, 1999.

People act as if there is no organized, international globalist effort. Who was behind the League of Nations? Who was behind the UN? They want a World Army, and the want the authority to levy taxes from every member state. It's a conspiracy - an open conspiracy. I have to hawk "And The Truth Shall Set You Free" again. You consistently find the same names behind all this. Not every mob and intelligence group, not every foundation, is seamlessly knit into the fabric of globalism. But all significant resistance is swiftly undermined or coopted. Some resistance is cultivated and pushed to extreme speech and behavior, in order to win moderate, reasonable people to their agenda.

They have more gold and guns than we do! They will use Y2k to their advantage, like they do every other upheaval, whether spontaneous or staged. And there is no doubt that the possession of guns by our citizenry is becoming a real annoyance to them. I fully expect to see food-for-guns programs, and in order for that to work, there must be food confiscation. That is why I'm extremely dismayed by the recent wave of villification of "hoarders" in the press.

After the guns are gone, you will be slaves. Count on it.


-- E. Coli (, February 05, 1999.


I'm really suprised to hear you say "That is why I'm extremely dismayed by the recent wave of villification of "hoarders" in the press."

Of *course* the "hoarders" HAVE to be villified. How else can they sell to the public the Idea that those evil people must be "handled".

They've learned their lessons well. I'll make you a bet. Go out somewhere in the general public arena and ask X number of people about their opinion of the folks at Waco and/or Ruby Ridge and you will find *significantly* over half will have bad images of those who were "handled".

I have done this test. I was amazed. If there was any such thing as an "average" comment, it went like this "Well they must have done something wrong or the Government wouldna done what they did. After all they were just a buch of radical wackos. They got what they deserved."

The boys have learned.

A whole strata is being predefined.

-- Greybear

-- Greybear (, February 05, 1999.

Sam, Sandy, et al,

I'm sorry, but my experience really does directly contradict what your saying. I would also point out that there is an additional element which the giant conspiracy theorists always ignore - honest people...and there *are* some honest people in the government bureaucracy - folks who really do try to do their job the best they can, and sometimes they really do stand up for what's right and not just go along to get along. Been there done that isn't easy, it certainly isn't fun, but it is still done...unfortunately anymore it seems like the bureaucrats are almost the only ones with the intestinal fortitude to do so.


-- Arlin H. Adams (, February 05, 1999.


Not looking deep enough: Ephesians 6:12

-- Elbow Grease (, February 05, 1999.

My perception is... you're ALL right on the money!!!

The "Nefarious Ones" are as deep rooted as most of you are suggesting. However, they will ultimately(heavy emphisis)fail for the reasons outlined by Arlin.


Existential Paranoia; ----- When you think something is out to "get" you.............and it really is!!!

-- c (c@c.c), February 06, 1999.

Lets assume that there is a NWO conspiracy. Can I do anything to change that? I am already supporting people and groups whom I believe would oppose NWO philosophies. Beyond that, I do not believe that I the problem is not within my control. Present me with a problem whose outcome I can directly control and I give it a shot.

-- me (, February 06, 1999.

maybe I should start with my typing. LOL

-- me (, February 06, 1999.

The question is "Are we not looking deep enough?"

And the responses indicate that in order to look deeper, we need to examine the money-based power/control structure of the world. My two cents worth is that this is still not deep enough. We need to examine WHY the money-based power/control structure is interested in maintaining and growing their power and WHAT benefit it will have for them, and the world. What is their intention? Is it simply power for power's sake? Or is there more to it than that?

I would guess that the "powers that be" realize that the world, as it is going, can not sustain itself for much longer. A disaster much larger than Y2K is in the making. There are "too many people" and too many disparate "interests" among those people. In order for their power to be truly beneficial for themselves and their view of the world, many of those people and their "interests" need to be eliminated. Only then, can "they" build a "truly just and beneficial paradise on earth" with "themselves" at the center of the power structure.

Quick illustrations of this approach would be the fact that the power/ control structure "allows" atrocities to happen such as in Rwanda and the former Yugoslavia. Sure, they pay lip service to what a horrible thing this is, but offer no REAL solutions that would prevent the UNDERLYING causes of these problems, because they WANT those people to slaughter each other. This serves two purposes - it gets those people out of the way by their own hands, and it conditions "us" to accept it. If "they" really want to solve these problems, all "they" would have to do is redraw a few national borders. But "they" won't allow that to happen. "They" are not the least bit interested in self- determination.

So, what's the end-game to be? I would suggest that IF "they" have their way, twenty years from now there will be two-three billion fewer people in the world. A small elite will control things through a single corporate dictatorship that will know everything about everyone. Our freedoms now are being curtailed with this in mind as the end result.

Or not...

-- pshannon (, February 06, 1999.

Elbow Grease - re: Ephesians 6:12. Exactly my point, actually, not human at all.

-- Arlin H. Adams (, February 06, 1999.

Thank you all. You all have restored my faith in there being any freedom fighters left in this United States. Arlin I Understand what you are saying and would offer this; If the US is "allowed to experience a biological or chemical attack" There wouldn't be enough of us normal people left to get in their way. If the major metros are emmaciated, there will be no serious threat. This scenerio, to me, makes the most sense. It's quick easy to pawn off on terrorists, allows immediate injection of military forces with minimal resistence from the population. Then once military presence has been established, the guns for food programs etc. This is one time, I hope I'm not right.

-- sam (we', February 08, 1999.

Ephesians 6:12: For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." E. Coli: you have found out the truth about the Money Power, but take the next step: Satan, who hates man, who wants to destroy man, is running the show. The International Bankers are adepts of Lucifer. And not Robert Taft, not William Borah, not Chomsky or Jefferson or William Jennings Bryant or William Jaspers or Chronicles Magazine or Pat Buchanan or any other man can stop them, because, as has been pointed out, they are not following a merely human agenda. It is a satanic agenda that seeks not simply to control man but to DESTROY man. They love abortion, they love population control, they love war, they love hate, they love evil, because they hate God, and God's creation, man. Only Jesus has the power to stop them. It has taken them 2,000 years to get this close to world control, and, like the builders of the Tower of Babel, they are about to see their plans dashed to dust by God. So, my good man, REJOICE! Fear not!

-- Spidey (, February 08, 1999.

>>Lets assume that there is a NWO conspiracy. Can I do anything to change that? I am already supporting people and groups whom I believe would oppose NWO philosophies. Beyond that, I do not believe that I the problem is not within my control. Present me with a problem whose outcome I can directly control and I give it a shot.

You can form your own opinions. That ultimately the most subversive thing you can do. Be watchful and don't let other people control your mind; study the way we are all manipulated and compare notes with others who are doing the same. Take the intitiative and control your own mind - or someone else will.

About the Satan/God thing: historically, this kind of dualism has been used to manipulate people in the service of the nameless, shambling THINGS we war against in the spirit. If you can categorize all evil this way, it's easy to get masses of folks to commit heinous atrocities by getting them to project their fear on a given enemy, literally "demonizing" them. If we oversimplify the problem, it becomes a simpler matter to manipulate us. God isn't going to step in and keep evil forces from using our most sacred and dearly-held beliefs to their advantage. I assume I'm being lied to until it's proven otherwise - even when I'm reading the Bible. The Bible was written and edited by men, for very mundane reasons. It may very well contain genuinely prophetic/precognitive writing (in addition to some really insprirational poetry, especially Proverbs); but I can't rely on this prophecy when I'm planning my week or my year, any more than Nostradamus is really useful in this way.

The Arabs have a saying: "trust in God, but tie up your camel." Meaning, don't expect God to do everything for you. I think of the church people who say we shouldn't worry about Y2k, but instead, "trust in God." Well, I don't expect God to drop manna on my backyard when the supply lines are cut. And I don't expect divine intervention to keep me from becoming enslaved to a global socialist work camp. God, praised be his Holy Name, threw my sorry ass into the deep end of the pond, so I'm swimming. And those crocodiles are most assuredly MY problem. Not that God isn't welcome to jump in with a boathook any time...


-- E. Coli (, February 08, 1999.

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