Quick story and assumption. My neighborhood has been under a rash of burgularies the last week. My parents are on vacation and I take care of their house as I live next door (500 yards) The alarm system went off at 3:05 am so I jumped up and dressed , unlocked the safe and took out the SW 45 and went to check on the status of the house. It was real windy and the alarm panel was flashing a zone 5 light which equates to a garage problem. Went out and checked the garage and everything was ok. Reset the alarm and went back home. The alarm went back off less than an hour later. Same deal...get dressed...grab the gun and maglight and off to maybe get shot at or be the shooter. Well the garage zone had been violated the second time and realized that the garage door was not all the way down....it had stopped a 1\2 inch shy from being full closed thanks to a small rock under the door.This was too big of a gap for the sensor to handle as the wind was shaking the door and breaking the signal. Problem solved. Went inside and reset the alarm, locked up and started walking home. I was already impressed that not one neighbor had even as much turned on a light. My pocket scanner had assured me that nobody called in the alarm to the sheriff dept. I turned the corner of the house and saw a car coming down the road( Well traveled road..but not at 4:00 am) I turned on my mag light so the car would see me and still had the S&W in my hand. The car turned out to be a deputy on patrol. He drove right past me without as much as slowing down. I know he saw me because he flashed his bright lights on me and I spotted him with my mag light. Wouldn't you stop somebody that was out walking around with a maglight and gun at 4:00 am? Now think about this....burgularies every night for the past week and nobody called in the alarm and the law drives right past a 6'4" 325 lb man with a flashlight and gun in his hand. My thoughts are this ....the hell with the law and the hell with the neighbors! They seem to want help when their place is broken into but don't want to lend a hand when somebody else is having a problem. This was the final proof I needed to realize YOU MUST TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF! nobody else gives a damn about what happens to you. Time to visit by buddy at the local gun shop.....2000 more 223.rounds for the mini 14, 1000 more rounds of 45 cal for the S&W pistol and 500 rounds of 12 ga. Panicked....no, Worried....HELL YES! If the law and the neighbors have a who cares attitude now what will it be when the SHTF? I know many think the y2k problem is bogus or too dramatic to happen but KNOWBODY REALLY KNOWS! Do you know the extent of the problem?....does your Boss, neighbor, utility company? Just let me panick, prepare, worry or whatever you call it. If this thing is a hoax you can laugh at me while I have all this ammo and food to use up...BUT....what if it happens? Who will laugh at who and if you come to deal me grief during this event because you didn't prepare....TOUGH SHIT! And don't get a idea to take my food and water or harm my family or me because you might just learn how good a shot I am under stress!

Bill

-- bill (y2kbill@hotmail.com), February 04, 1999

Answers

Since you had so many burgularies in the area, and a cop just happened to be there, maybe the cop was/is on all the thefts. Just a thought.

-- Smell a rat (Maybe@maybe.com), February 04, 1999.

Bill, unless you are willing to die for your TV set, better to set up a safe room, sit in there with the 12 ga aimed appropriately and pick 'em off like chickens as they come in the door.

-- Runway Cat (Runway_Cat@hotmail.com), February 04, 1999.

Bill, sometimes we can get so focused on "potential danger" it is difficult to see otherwise. Even though you seem to be weapon-savvy, you could have been ambushed. And if I was carrying a pistol down the street in the middle of the night and a cop passed me by with out stopping, I would consider it my lucky day. We had an incident not long ago where a cop was investigating a possible break-in at his own house. He called for back up, but then went in. A fatal mistake. When the second cop arrived, he mistook the first for a burglar. This happened at 5pm, Christmas Eve.

-- Just another Bill (Bill'splace@the.country), February 04, 1999.

Bill,

You hit on something that may be very important to remember as things get crazier. The humanists among us may object-but here goes...

I believe that a majority of the population has been conditioned by cultural and media influences to be self-absorbed, distrustful, malcontented, greedy, cynical, narcissistic, impatient-well, you get the idea. People now seem to exhibit altruistic or charitable behavior only when it is fashionable to do so. Our lives have taken on the character of a set of 'games' we 'play' to win, rather than a set of circumstances or phases we experience and grow through. Terms such as "personal responsibility", "self-sacrifice", "honor", and "loyalty" are rarely used anymore. We may yet see the ultimate working out of the ideas of moral relativism and situational ethics as we close out this year in their purest form-anarchy.

My point is simply this: Many do not have the right mindset to react the way Y2K communitarians may wish if they are caught individually unprepared. Bill may be more right than the many communitarians in these forums. It all depends how bad things really get for how long.

Frankly, I expect those "culturally poisoned" folks who happen to be in power will declare martial law out of sheer self-preservation before the masses can act out THEIR conditioning.

As an example of this kind of conditioning in miniature, I submit the generational propagation of abusive or dysfunctional behavior in all too many families. Those family members that try to break the cycle find it almost impossible to do so without a LOT of outside help. I have seen it in my own family.

Where will help come from for our society as a whole when all our fantasies and illusions are ripped to shreds? To those that say "man is basically good", I ask why does one never have to teach a child to be bad?

"God is dead." - Nietzsche "Nietzsche is dead." - God

-- Jeremiah Jetson (laterthan@uthink.y2k), February 04, 1999.

Runway-

What would a "safe room" consist of? This is a sincere question. Arlin can vouch for me ;) Blessings...Mercy

-- Mercy (prepare@now.com), February 04, 1999.

Where in the hell did you come from, Jeremiah? Excellent response. Very thought provoking. Too many Americans are, indeed, "self-absorbed, distrustful--not to mention unworthy of trust--malcontented, greedy, cynical, narcissistic and impatient." I direct your attention to our president, elected by those just like him. The only thing you forgot was an overarching need to deflect personal responsibility... for anything.

"Man is a rope stretched between the animal and the Superman--a rope over an abyss.--Nietzsche

-- Vic (Roadrunner@compliant.com), February 04, 1999.

So Bill,

When was the last time you and your parents hosted a block party or a bar-be-que to get acquainted with your neighbors? People who regularly talk to one another tend to look out for one another.

Have you taken personal responsibility to change the prevailing attitude in your area? Has everyone shared phone numbers and where the gas shut-off valves are? Mine has, because we live in earthquake country and we all know what an "unexpected" event can do.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), February 04, 1999.

Bill, you said that you have a mini-14. How has it treated you? I just bought one a few days ago and made my first trip to the range with it tonight. First five rounds landed in a 1 1/2 inch group at 25 yards, which is pretty good for an inexperienced shooter like myself. Have you had any trouble with the rifle? Do you have any recommendations for ammo? I paid $350 for it new, is that a good price?

Thank you all for your time, d

-- d (d@dgi.com), February 04, 1999.

Mercy,

My safe room consists of a underground room 15' by 20' under the floor of my pole barn. It has 3 ventilation pipes that are located in such a manner to be unseen. I have the ability to close off the ventilation pipes in the event of tear gas, ect. The door swings down into the room so I can open the door even if somebody pulls a car or something over top of the door. I have a 25 ton porta power jack that will lift most pieces of equipment that would block my exiting the safe room. Anything heavier than that will fall down on top of me anyway.I have a real safe in the room that houses my guns and ammo so even if they take me out they still havn't won the war by stealing my protection. We store all of our canning we do each year into this area as it stays nice and cool. Lights are provided by 12 volt lighting that recieves it's power from several deep cycle marine batteries with solar panel charging plus conventional charging if the 120 volt line works. We have battery powered motion detectors that have the ability to alert us to any intruders within the parimeter. These run off of 4 AA batteries and provide a output to signal a light, beeper ,ect. We are lucky as our water table is accessed by driving a point into the ground and the tested water is safe to drink. It is pumped by a pitcher pump and our waste is disposed into a porta potty that can be emptied into the outside septic tank or the old outhouse.The door was built with the metal frame inside the safe room. You have nothing to weld the door shut to as the outside is exposed to only concrete but our side has the support frame that lets us safely and securely bolt the door shut. We also have a small oxy\acc torch set to cut out if we would ever be stuck in there. NOW...PLEASE understand why we have such a room. I went through a terrible tornado\storm many years ago and it was the most terrifying event in my life. When we built our shop last year I decided to add this "Storm Cellar Feature" to protect us from any storms, disasters, civil unrullyness ect. It was never intended as a "Y2K Haven" as I really didn't pay much attention to this problem until last fall (typical..huh?)but damn glad we took the time to plan for the future need to protect ourselfs from nature, humans..ect. I have learned many ways to outsmart intruders by using many innexpensive devices you can purchase at Radio Shack. Ever hear of running monofilament across your driveway waist high and have one end tied to a tree while the other end is hooked to a tongue depresser that sets between a clothspin. Each side of the clothspin has metal contact strips so when the wire is pulled and the tongue depressor is yanked out from the clotspin the metal makes contact and completes the circuit which can trigger a piezo buzzer to let you know security has been breeched. Sounds silly but highly effective and can be powered by AA batteries and consumes small amounts of voltage so the batteries last a long time. ...plus it is small and portable. Please understand I am not a freak hoping this all falls apart just want to survive if it does fall apart. I know my plan has many flaws and I am aware of that....but at least I have a plan. What if Noah didn't listen and said "Somebody else will probably build an ark...we'll just board their ark!" ?

-- bill (y2kbill@hotmail.com), February 04, 1999.

Jeremiah,

What you're saying is very true.

-- Kevin (mixesmusic@worldnet.att.net), February 04, 1999.

Bill - thanks for giving Mercy such a thorough answer.

Mercy - if one doesn't have the resources Bill has to implement a safe room, a simpler (though far less, er, uhm, bulletproof?) solution is to establish one room of your house - chosen for having more than one way in/out but which can be controled by you. Any windows should be reinforced or shuttered, and the door should be of the solid core type with at least one deadbolt lock that locks up with the frame, and also preferably something like a NYC "police lock" that braces the door from the floor up. You'll want to keep a little water, food, spare ammo, (and maybe gas masks) in the room at all times.

the idea here is to give you an area to get your family together, one in which they will be relatively safe against an intruder, from which you can call for help (if available) and which will force the intruders to attack from a known direct, thus allowing you to use your home defense firearm(s) in an effective manner, should such become neccessary...anyway I think you get the idea.

Arlin

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), February 05, 1999.

Bill and Arlin-

Thank you very much for taking the time to go into this in such detail! I will pass it all on to my husband, who would be thrilled if I would *let* him fix up something like this :) He worries about not having a safe place should we need one, and this will help allay his fears. Mine too.

Blessings....Mercy

-- Mercy (prepare@now.com), February 05, 1999.

Excellent posts, all. BTW, Bill, those solar panels by their nature have to be exposed, and may become a target. If they do, they can be repaired. You may have to make one good one out of several damaged ones, but it can be done. Had a chance to speak with some fellows in the land-mobile radio business who run remote mountaintop repeater systems, and they get their panels shot up on a regular basis by trigger-jerks. If they haven't anticipated shot-up panels by bringing spares, they fix them on the spot by jumpering the bad cells and resealing them with silicone adhesive after repair. I was told that some outfits have gone so far as to place a sheet of 3" bulletproof lexan in front of the panels - costs a great deal of money for that stuff, and cuts down panel output by 20% or so, but certainly beats the alternative.

-- Why2K? (who@knows.com), February 05, 1999.

This is an awesome post, every bit the equal of what some of us philosopher types post. Better, because it will save someone's life. Thank you personally all for the detailed info. How about more from people executing similar plans?

Bill, you got any room in that storm cellar? Oh, never mind.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), February 05, 1999.

Sorry.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), February 05, 1999.

Someone mentioned a block party. Lots of Luck!! I had one to talk about y2k and 2 people (a couple) showed up!!

-- Flagirl (Fran44@aol.com), February 06, 1999.