Urbania, Hostilities, Awareness and a 50,000 Watt Blowtorchgreenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread
Amazing how it seems the whole world passes you by when you are out of the loop for three weeks. Been back to Chicago on business. I don't know if folks got meaner since I left for the boonies last year or not- - but it sure seems like it. Perhaps all that snow froze whatever warmth of human kindness they once had before I left.
What a contrast in Y2K perceptions! Talk about DWGI's!! Here at least the whole town is talking about preparedness, there in Chi-town, no one wants to hear it. The local afternoon DJ's on WLS pretty much laughed it off the air. Folks I worked with in town simply shrugged when they heard about it and stated: "Ehhh, won't happen". I almost felt like Alice in Wonderland (minus the skirt) being there. It's almost surreal.
That is until I once again tuned into Chicago's 50,000 Watt Blowtorch WLS, and lo and behold- on Sunday morning - the last Sunday of each month - they have a whole talk show about ....guess what? - - - YES! You got it! Y2K! That pesky little three letter curse!
This Sunday featured that lizard-headed Washington Wonder Czar: John Koskinen - who said in summary: things will be bad. We will have disruptions, but we have it handled. Cities are fine, major corporations are fine, major utilities are fine, our nation is fine. But... small towns and communities are not fine, small businesses and corporations are not fine, suppliers and vendors to power company's are not fine, other nations are not fine. We need to work together. We need to reward those who find that we are NOT as remediated as we thought, so we can get the problem fixed. We are NOT starting a panic, we are NOT declaring a State of Emergency, some states WILL deploy the National Guard - we haven't Federally activated the Guard - YET - but we may. Some are starting a panic by being selfish. They will create a national emergency. Our biggest fear is folks on the fringes that will try to capitalize on this problem for extremist reasons (you who are preparing know who you are). Thank you for having me on your show- let's get the word out.
Well, I'm outta there! The fear of being stuck in a large metro area has now abated as I'm back home. I wonder how many Sunday shows it will take for the Sam's Club's there in ChiTown to start running low on staples.....hmmmmm?
-- INVAR (firstname.lastname@example.org), February 02, 1999
Yes, there aren't as many GI folks here as one would hope.
I doubt WLS has very high ratings Sun. mornings (at least not high enough to cause widespread panic). Although the Chicago Tribune had a couple decent articles about y2k people are asleep. I haven't been able to find any local y2k Community prep. activity, with the exception of a rather large South Suburban Church. You are right. It IS SURREAL.
As far as big cities go Chicago is pretty friendly. Although your experience reminded me of an experience I had. About ten years ago, I moved back home (Chicago) after living in a small town for about a year. First morning out I stopped a 7-11. As I'm forking over my hard earned money I am saying things like 'how are you today?', 'crazy weather', yada yada the cashier gives me the dirtiest look, puts her hand on her hip and says "Look, do I know you, or somthing?" I was like 'welcome home'. :-) We decided to raise our children in the Suburbs.
-- Deborah (windycity@COLD.com), February 02, 1999.
Welcome back INVAR. Used to live near Chicago, glad I won't be there for the rollover! Looks like Jimmy Bagga is gone. We have a whole new cast of characters for the next Pollyanna Saga... Take some time to learn more about each one. We may even have some Uncle Sam Trolls? Hope you filled up on deep dish pizza and Portillos burgers and dogs.
-- Bill (email@example.com), February 03, 1999.
Some are starting a panic by being selfish. They will create a national emergency. Our biggest fear is folks on the fringes that will try to capitalize on this problem for extremist reasons (you who are preparing know who you are).
Beware of this trend. It has become the government and corporate defense. Make us, who basically have had nothing to do with the lack of preparations and "lack of action" to fix the y2k woes,...yeah make US the bad guys. We are so selfish and egotistical. We don't have a right to want our own money that we worked hard for...how awful of us. We shouldn't be so selfish as to put back any food for ourselves, why, just think of those poor CEO's and Senators that have to eat out at Le Chateau's every night because there isn't anything in the pantry. We ought to be ashamed of ourselves for causing a panic. Surely it must be our fault, somehow, that the government and corporate America started way too late on Y2K problems. We are so damn dumb, and stupid, and lazy, It MUST have been our fault.
Look out for this crap from the government and big business from now on. They are really out to shame us into feeling guilty about having anything that REALLY belongs to us. Just the fact that they are doing this pisses me off in maximum mode. I'm glad I started taking out my excess cash from the bank weeks ago. I'm glad I have a greenhouse started. I'm glad I've taken steps to get off the grid. Glad I own 4 guns too. I'm glad I've developed a better understanding of the world we live in and how I'm going to vote and react to government or business from now until I die.
Usually I don't voice much of a personal opinion (I like 'the facts'), but these types of statements make my blood boil. Most of the citizens of America had nothing to do with this mess, and when they try to act to protect what litte they have, government comes in to try to make us feel stupid, selfish, and crazy.
***Mr. K., protecting/developing/using the few family possessions*** and proud of it****
-- Mr_Kennedy (y2kPCfixes@motivatedseller.com), February 03, 1999.
I am hearing this a lot - the govt is fine, the big corporations are fine. It is the little guys (small biz, local governments) and foreign countries that are not fine. i.e., "We're OK, you're not so hot".
As in statements like "Even if the federal government completely repairs its critical systems, the delivery of important services could be still be disrupted by the weak link of ... x, y, z (small business, etc.).
Words .... it only hurts when I think.
-- Debbie Spence (firstname.lastname@example.org), February 03, 1999.
Mr. K, Talked to my Dad in England yesterday. He listens to the radio and watches TV news regularly, mostly BBC (government-owned). From being the first to Get It in our family, he's now wondering if Y2K might not be so bad after all, and that by "hoarding" food and supplies we might be causing those very shortages we fear. I replied that it still doesn't hurt to have some supplies on hand in case of natural disaster or some other problem and I was going to keep to my plan of adding a few items to the cache every week. After surfing a British government site yesterday and reading between the (very widely-spaced) lines, I can see how Dad came to question his thinking. I got the impression Y2K stockpiling is now being spun as a rich vs poor thing, that the rich would snatch up all the stuff and there would be nothing left for the poor. That sort of spin disturbs me quite a lot. Could this be a first step to setting the stage for later confiscation of "hoarded" food (as happened in WWII Britain)? Won't this sort of thinking give legitimacy to anyone thinking it's okay to steal supplies from the "rich"? By stocking up now, those of us who are "rich" (ha!) are making it easier for the government--they won't have to help so many in the next disaster, whatever it is. But why do I bother, the British and US governments obviously have some weird agenda to pursue. All will become clear in time, I suppose. In the meantime, cache and keep it quiet.
-- Old Git (email@example.com), February 03, 1999.
Yes, it's true! I started a panic the other night at my local Food Gouger. I rolled up to the check-out counter with 18 cans of tuna, 16 cans P&B, and 8 cans of chicken soup. "Whooo! Look at this guy! FOOD HOARDER!" screamed the clerk. Everywhere heads spun around, and when the other shoppers saw what I was buying, they started flapping their arms like chickens and screaming "He's hoarding food! He'll kill us all!" I was nonplussed by the pandemonium, asked for plastic, not paper, and swiftly made my exit. I noticed the next day that the Food Gouger had gone up in flames, some kind of riot or something. Be careful: that next can of Dinty Moore you buy might trigger armageddon.
-- Spidey (firstname.lastname@example.org), February 03, 1999.
Spidey- what's nice about living in a big city (only temporary, I'm on the way out) is that I don't need to go to the same grocery store each time. In fact, when I buy extras I do NOT go to the store nearest my home. In fact I will NOT buy any extras at one particular store where one of my neighbors happens to be the manager! I have spoken to her several times about Y2K, but she definitely is a DWGI, and I will not tell her or any of our neighbors what we are doing to prepare. (And they will not have our forwarding address when we relocate.)
-- PJ (Just@here.com), February 03, 1999.
Likewise, as I transistion out of the Washington, D.C. area (expect to be completely re-located by mid-March), I find that you can't beat a large metropolitan area for converting the $100s and $50s that I have been taking out of my bank to smaller denominations by simply "shopping around" at all these little stores. (I've found that its best to not try to get the small bills directly from the bank if there are other customers around, as it takes longer and draws a lot more attention as they count and shuffle. $100s/$50s go pretty darn quick.)
-- Jack (email@example.com), February 03, 1999.
Ya know what? I just realized I am a hoarder. No one should have hundreds of video tapes (yah, tell it to my offspring). Oh, no! I must have over a dozen boxes of Christmas decorations (thousands of lights). Thousands of books, tons of art supplies...Oh no!!!My daughter is a hoarder too!!!She has zillions of Barbies...and..Beanie Babies AAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGG !!!My son is a hoarder of Legos!!!!!! Apparently in our consumer societey you can hoard anything which doesnt't directly relate to actual SURVIVAL.
Look into my eyes...you must buy Furbies...you MUST BUY Furbies.
Just don't buy food.
Maybe we should all join H.A. (Hoarders Anonomous)
Deborah the Hoarder
-- Deborah the Hoarder (firstname.lastname@example.org), February 03, 1999.
Yes my friends! Let's start a new forum organization: Hoarders Anonymous, where we can exchange hoarding ideas. Give tips to confuse the food police. Pinpoint great buys on canned goods. Discuss critical bulk bagged staples that will cause an avalanche of panic buying. And of course, recipies for stretching SPAM for the long haul. It should drive our government nuts.
Spidey- I have a creative writing assignment for you. You tickeleth mine funnybone well.
-- INVAR (email@example.com), February 03, 1999.
[Looking behind and to the sides to see who's watching me]
"We need to reward those who find that we are NOT as remediated as we thought, so we can get the problem fixed."
[He's STILL stressing over the NERC report, just like we are. Does this include IRS programmers/analysts? Reward how? Bonnie Camp, what was your reward?]
"Some are starting a panic by being selfish. They will create a national emergency."
[Here you have it, folks. Our JIT food production system is apparently just as resilient as our Fractional Reserve System. I recommend here that if you are stashing, you make sure you have your name in print as a co-ordinator of a Community Preparedness Project so you can prove you weren't secretly hoarding it all for yourself. That, or he's referring to cash withdrawals, in which case he is absolutely correct.]
"Our biggest fear is folks on the fringes that will try to capitalize on this problem for extremist reasons (you who are preparing know who you are)."
[What the hell does this mean? I'm replacing "preparing" with "stocking lead" because otherwise, he's calling me a post-Y2K price- gouging rice-peddler.]
"Thank you for having me on your show- let's get the word out."
[Get the word out? Advise your preparing neighbors that they're about to crash the nation's food distribution systems? Again, what the hell is this man thinking?]
Face it, he's gone over the edge. Y2K has gotten to him. This is not an objective, purposeful presentation of facts, lies, spin or opinion. This is a truly frightened man now blathering, and this presages that KYC is coming REAL soon to a bank near you, along with serious cash withdrawal limitations.
E., - wherever you are - thanks for teaching me to be more suspicious of things. Hardliner, correct: The PANIC has begun.
This statement bodes no good for man nor beast. We are THERE, y'all. Stampede. Invar, thanks. You will not BELIEVE the subject material we've accumulated for you in your absence.
-- lisa (firstname.lastname@example.org), February 03, 1999.
Y2k stockpiling is GOOD for the economy! We are going thru the pre- y2k boom as wealth is transferred from the symbolic monetary system to tangibles including consumables and durable goods.
Companies are buying new computer systems, telecomm equipment and network components. Applications are migrating to object-oriented platform-independent scalable distributed network environments. Fault- tolerance technology is improving. People are fine-tuning their back- up procedures and learning about self-reliance, freedom, and independence.
People are building personal and community reserves of food and supplies and planning communication lines and protocols. Both individual and groups are recognizing and asserting self- determination. The business world is shifting towards the information economy and away from the petrochemical toward the electronic and photonic energies.
-- Jon (email@example.com), February 03, 1999.
Jon Miles, your post was perfect! Saving *that* for copy re-paste re -paste.
INVAR, we have really missed you. Please eMail us.
Ashton & Leska in Cascadia
xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx
-- Leska (firstname.lastname@example.org), February 03, 1999.
Jon, thanks for cutting right through the crap. If we don't get overrun by Visigoths, and if the Republic doesn't devolve to Empire, we'll come out of it wiser, more sober and more resiliant, and our technology more appropriate. Mighty big "if" though.
-- E. Coli (email@example.com), February 03, 1999.
Empires exist at many levels--natural, spiritual, political, commercial, family, personal, etc. and they operate in many ranges-- global, national, state, local, individual, etc. The empire is a relationship of dominion over its constituent states, or in the commercial context, having a majority influence, such as a 'publishing empire' etc.
Empiricism in the sense of the trend toward a unification of authority has been underway as an evolutionary process for a long time. Industry and commerce require standardization for efficient operation, and any cooperative or competitive interaction will have rules to follow. Economically beneficial transactions will require setting up rules of trade, and even destructive action has rules of engagement. But once the economically beneficial commercials operations are in place, the door is opened to theft and other wrongdoing, and some authority (backed up with available force) is going to be necessary.
A common basis for operation is equally needed (and could be, no less) at the state or international levels. The question will come up "but what about the UN...aren't they pretty lame?" This is a fagade that is calculated to appear in order to placate any concern that may arise about the prospect of anything like 'world government' leading to loss of autonomy. The problems are with rogue states and terrorism and if there isn't international cooperation, the security risk is too high. For the last 60 years or so, NATO has been like a world council, as a multinational body of representatives. UN has been around for about 40 years and the last 20 years have seen more of terrorism and 'weapons of mass destruction.' Meanwhile the shadow government has been in the background all along.
Our best bet is for each person to know the history of their country's government and have a working knowledge of the importance of the foundational principles (such as inalienable (not capable of being transferred to another) rights, liberty, privilege, civic duty, egalitarianism, and the list goes on...). Get some CDs on government and philosophy, then vacuum seal and stash or bury it somewhere it could remain undisturbed for decades, along with the other info-cache.
-- Jon (firstname.lastname@example.org), February 04, 1999.
Here's some more of the softer side of Koskinen....from Postnet's compilation.
``Rather than say, `It's every person for themselves,' and, `I'm going to go hide in the cellar with my canned goods and rifles,' there are a lot of dedicated civic organizers who are telling people not to run and hide.''
(I think we need to have separate quote threads for Koskinen, Bennett, et. al., for reference, if we already don't).
The above quote was from the article titled:
"The wild -- and not so wild -- warnings about Y2K"
You can do a CTL-F search on "Y2K"; there are several articles..
-- lisa (email@example.com), February 09, 1999.