Hello again all my faithful Y2k readers. First of all,I would like to thank all of you who responded INTELLIGENTLY to my question of what happens to the poor in the event of a Y2k shutdown. I recieved great answers from several of you. HOWEVER, THERE IS STILL NO WORD FROM ED OR JENNIFER ON THIS PROBLEM (as expected). Secondly, I can't believe some of the answers I got from some of you. You don't support the poor! Your little $50 per year that you actually give to the welfare system does little to nothing for the misfortuneate. All of you who answered in this fashion are heartless and terrible. I believe you will be the ones most affected by the Y2k problem and then you will see what it is like to be one of the poor. I will be happy to recieve any E-mail that you have on my comments.

-- Travis V. Johnson (BIGGDOG794@yahoo.com), January 31, 1999

Answers

My follow-up has nothing to do with Travis's post, but can someone explain to me why in the last few days I've seen several posts asking for flames and negative responses to be e-mailed? In NA's post from yesterday he was very insistent that flamers e-mail him. Now comes Travis. Is it just trolling for your e-mail address? Isn't the anonymity of the web privacy enough?

-- Puddintame (dit@dot.com), January 31, 1999.

Travis,

Define poor. I would suggest from the tone of your post here, that you are a good little communist, stir the pot of hate against anyone who makes $1 more than you.

As for myself, I know quite a few poor people who are far above my income level from all of the taxes (communist welfare state) I pay.

Stick up your ASS!

-- Anti-communist (youare@troll.com), January 31, 1999.

MARK 14:7 "For you have the poor with you always, and whenever you wish you may do them good..."

-- Nabi Davidson (nabi7@yahoo.com), January 31, 1999.

This is very strange indeed. Who are you Travis? Why do you want email? Why do you expect that Mr. Yourdon, a very busy man, would take the time to email you personally? Why should anyone care if you consider them heartless and terrible? What are you doing for the poor? Who do you work for? Why are you hiding behind your anon email, while you sign your "real" name? Does your real email address end with .gov?

-- d (d@dgi.com), January 31, 1999.

You are right to be suspicious. The sudden onslaught of trolls seems to unrealistic. I speak with many people, due to my work. I find that the majority, that could care less about y2k, would be very unlikely candidates for a troll posistion. I have not run into anyone, now that does not mean that they are not out there, that would waste there time posting "the troll line" here, or anywhere else.

I would not put it past our government to be collecting data on us. There seems to be, as you well know, a concerted effort to label us "y2k paranoid types" as possible extremists. We all know how extremists are treated in Klinton's Amerika. Beware.

-- Anti-Communist (youarea@troll.com), January 31, 1999.

Nabi,

Wake up and smell the coffee! I could tell you all about charity, but that is between myself and God. And yes I do believe in a Saviour, his name is Jesus. And I am well aware of the scriptures relating to the poor. I would suggest that you get off of you hollier than though pedestal and start to read between the lines.

There is a concerted effort to destroy this country. If you truly understood the Scriptures you would realize that we are running under mans law, with mans law you will have poverty. This is the battle.

Remember that we are to be soldiers, not limp wristed little boys. Nabi, we are at war, and we are not fighting invisible horned and pitchfork waving devils. Are enemy is real. They contol us from the places on high, powers and principalities. They are here. They have been here, the anti-christs, since long before you were born.

Look at what Travis is doing, don't fall into his trap!

-- Anti-Communist (youarea@troll.com), January 31, 1999.

Where did you get $50.00 a year that we actually gave to the poor? The very thing you accuse Ed and Jennifer of is what you are guilty of yourself. Why didn't you give more than $50.00 to the poor if that's where you think you money should be? Your dollar amount is totally false. How much do you think "poor" people should get? Please answer that one Travis.

-- WelfareWorker (WelfareWorker@know.com), January 31, 1999.

Michael Jordan made $34 million for bouncing a ball down a court and I made $35,000 nursing the dying. Maybe your gripe should be pointed at Michael Jordan and not Ed Yourdan.

-- Nurse (Nurse@pain.com), January 31, 1999.

More of your tax dollars goes into CORPORATE WELFARE than ever finds its way into social welfare. Don't talk to us about taking care of the poor...

-- Nader (Nader@thetruth.com), January 31, 1999.

Travis, I appreciate your compassion for the poor. I think it is honorable. However, you missed the point I was trying to make on your previous post. IF poor people did not allow themselves to be so reliant on others to begin with then it wouldn't be an issue of what was going to happen to them post y2k. Poor folks have to take responsibility for themselves and stop expecting others to do it for them. I can't, with good conscience, feel bitter towards, or expect anything from, those who have more resources than I do. I am the one who determines whether I live or die, whether I survive or don't. Yes, it would be wonderful if we could all hold each other's hands and get through any problems as one big happy family, but that simply is not realistic. What is realistic is personal responsibility and reaching out within your power. We are not a bunch of "heartless" people on here. I have worked hard to reach out to many poor and helpless people online and offline to make sure they at least have an opportunity to become aware of Y2K. I'm working now towards community organization through churches and schools. Also, there have been countless posts on this forum emphasizing community, providing resources, etc. But again, everyone needs to be accountable for themselves. The more people who do this, the easier it will be to help the helpless.

Regarding the Yourdons not answering your post. I hesitate to say this, because I don't want to come across as a smart ass but, has it occured to you they might be busy doing other things? During my initial Y2K awareness episode, I found the Timebomb website. I wrote an e-mail to Ed Yourdon explaining my personal life situation and asking him a couple of questions. He responded with a sincere reply addressing the specific questions and issues I'd mentioned. And it wasn't a shallow public relations letter recommending I buy his book (although I did later buy a copy and then more copies for Christmas gifts). I realized that any preparations I made from that point on would have to be prioritized because of a major lack of resources (some folks are buying generators, I can't afford that, so I sought my options). I took matters into my own hands. I don't rely on others to tell me if there will be failures here or there. I seek the information myself. I write letters, make phone calls to get right to the source of the matter. I'm not going to sit back and wait on others to help me. These are all aspects of being responsible for yourself. If Y2K is TEOTWAKI, there is at least one poor family the Yourdons helped...mine. And even if it isn't TEOTWAKI they were a factor in my becoming personally responsible for what happens to me.

-- Other Lisa (LisaWard2@aol.com), January 31, 1999.

Anti-Communist,

I would suggest that you get off of you hollier than though pedestal and start to read between the lines.

Exactly why do you think I'm displaying a holier than thou attitude? Regarding "reading between the lines," I suggest you actually look at the passage I quoted from and see the context of what was being said there.

If you truly understood the Scriptures you would realize that we are running under mans law, with mans law you will have poverty. This is the battle.

Remember that we are to be soldiers, not limp wristed little boys. Nabi, we are at war, and we are not fighting invisible horned and pitchfork waving devils. Are enemy is real.

Apparently you are the one who doesn't understand the Scriptures, Anti-C. Yes, believers are at war; but Paul clearly tells us that the enemies that believers battle are wicked spiritual entities. Our enemies aren't men.

EPHESIANS 6:12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. (NKJV)

The beauty of a forum like this is that you have the chance to think a little bit before you respond. Avail yourself of that opportunity next time, Anti-C.

-- Nabi Davidson (nabi7@yahoo.com), February 01, 1999.

Hi there Travis, I'm one of the poor. I've had incredible difficulties in life, and extraordinary blessings. I used to believe ppl should come to my aid, and it was a huge blow of disillusionment when that did not happen. However, when I got a grip on the sad reality of earth life, I found myself laughing at the absurdity of it all and have a permanent case of the giggles. It is up to each of us to live our ideals, but it is silly and impossible to force anybody else to comply with those dreams. We can manifest our dreams, but cannot expects others to agree, go along, understand, or admire them.

Give, give, give, expect nothing of others, much of oneself, and EVERYTHING from God. :) Works well for us.

About Ed Yourdon: he is really busy. Just saw him in action yesterday. He was very kind and respectful to all. He had lines of people asking him for advice, which he freely dispensed. He gave hour after hour of public talks. No breaks. We worried about him; it was sorta exhausting to watch! Ashton gave him water; Ed had time for a couple sips. Diane gave him her sandwich; Ed had time for a bite. That's it. No glamour, just hard work. Asked nothing of anybody. He gave gave gave gave gave. Great man. Approachable, intelligent, well-informed, down-to-earth, humorous, BUSY !! Saw nothing in any way to fault him.

Now, I'm poor and as a result cannot bug out. So what? So I'll die. Guess what? I can't wait!! I know how I stand with God and I'm looking forward to a nice long vacation from this world. However, since I'm still in it, I'm happily concentrating on my blessings and certainly am not expecting any pity.

Ashton & Leska in Cascadia, happy & poor, but rich as kings within

xxxxxxx xxxxxxx x

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), February 01, 1999.

Nabi,

You can battle all the unseen forces you want, that is your business. Find your Strong's Concordence and look up the word "conspiracy". Then come back and tell me about your invisible powers and principalities.

If you studied your Bible you would find that "powers and principalities" are earthly, ie. governments. Don't bring a knife to a gun fight.

You might also want to find out who the enemy was that Jesus spoke of to the apostles. They were not invisible spirits, they were, believe it or not, oxygen breathing human beings.

You think that Christians do not have enemies? Watch tv sometime. It is late and I am outa here. Post a thread sometime and I will give you chapter and verse, IN CONTEXT!

-- Anti-Communist (youarea@troll.com), February 01, 1999.

If TSHTF, it will be an opportunity to see "Evolution in Action." I myself may not make it, being aged and rather brittle, but it will do my heart good to see a lot of young losers, whiners and government clerks (who would otherwise be maids and car washers) get offed, also. Since I am making preparations, I just may get to see that. YABADABADOO!

-- old (old@fart.com), February 01, 1999.

I COULD NOT RESIST answering this message. I got on here to respond to Critt Jarvis's reply to my thread.

I am a conservative Republican. I do not have a commi bone in my capitalistic body. However, when it comes to giving to the poor, I do so regularly. For you Christians out there, I challenge you to seriously try to tell me that giving to the poor is not a Biblical principal. If TSHTF, and the needs of the needy masses are NOT met, the looting and raiding of a Red Cross depository in Columbia may give you a "preview of coming events". When asked, what did these people give as their reason for doing it? Basically, they were hungry and frustrated that the Govt relief efforts were not getting the food to them. This was during the 1st week of the crisis! So, if you are not motivated out of the kindness of your hearts to worry about how Y2K may impact the poor masses, maybe your own sense of self-preservation should "cause you to pause". Let's all hope and pray that if TSHTF that relief efforts are sufficient and helpful enough to prevent the social unrest occuring in Columbia.

-- Sue (conibear@gateway.net), February 01, 1999.

The "poor" will loot. Let them take TVs, VCRs and Boomboxes. They will raid grocery stores demand to be taken care of, but when the government tit runs dry they will die.

If the poor want to prepare, let them buy 50 lb bags of rice for $11. That is 2 months worth of food.(China has lived on this for years) How many times have you seen some "average" person in the check out line whip out their books of food stamps to pay for steaks and Ben & Jerrys (I saw this on Sunday!) Fuck'm I say. If they want to live, tell them to buy rice and beans with their food stamps. If they come to my house for food, let them eat lead.

-- Bill (y2khippo@yahoo.com), February 01, 1999.

Drive up to the gas pump and get raped by taxes, look at your paycheck and get raped by taxes, look at your phone bill and get raped by taxes, look at your electric bill and get raped by taxes, look at your property taxes and get raped by taxes, look at your car registration and get raped by taxes, by any nonconsumable goods and get raped by taxes. Up at 4:00 a.m. back home at 8:00 p.m. And you want me to do what? Woes POOR ME! Now, what did the poor do all day to deserve any more of my money? This is insanity! Your right Bill, the poor will get lead.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), February 01, 1999.

With all due respect to all the inteligent and productive persons in this forum, you are falling for Travis trap. By the way, what is he doing for the poor? It is clear there is a coordinated attack going on against the more serious and informative sites about the Glitch. Starting with obcenities( which drives away newbies and thinking people) and now this ridiculous "Poors of the World" stuff. In ham radio we use a procedure that works 99% of the time; Don't talk back, no matter what. Just don't talk back. It saddens me to end to see reality unfold. Yes reality; the reality that the really scared people(Gov.,institutions,etc.) are going to do anything to hold back the message, and take all they can down with them.Why? Don't ask me,I'm no Freud. With 11 months to go, Can you imagine what other tactics this entities will be using in the coming months? Food for thought. Good luck to all of us.

-- Getmine (getal@my.net), February 01, 1999.

The one step that could do more than anything else to help the poor (and other non-surfers like many very elderly) would be for an honest, intense effort by government, media, etc. to raise awareness of the need for personal preparation. I felt somewhat guilty my first few very intensive weeks of preparation when I was only looking out for myself. I remember reading during that time that it is natural human behavior to get your own house in order before reaching out. As I came closer to my personal goal I found myself doing more outreach. It's tough, though, to get the dialogue going when most of the world still believes it is unnecessary. I wouldn't be surprised if most of the GIs on this forum are reaching out in a meaningful way to their community.

-- Brooks (brooksbie@hotmail.com), February 01, 1999.

Anti-C,

You have my email address, should you wish to enlighten a poor uneducated soul such as myself.

-- Nabi Davidson (nabi7@yahoo.com), February 01, 1999.

What the frick is wrong with obscenities? If the newbies and Christians and various wusses can't take hearing or seeing a few obscenities -- if their poor souls are so tender -- well, frick 'em. I won't miss those pusillanimous pussies in the slighest.

-- A (A@AisA.com), February 01, 1999.

Anyone with the ability to type can swear. What requires character is NOT to swear when in the presense of such answers as have appeared on this thread. I sincerely hope that you folks are not the only people remaining alive after the Year 2000. What a world that would be.

-- jennieo (@#$$**.@@?*&.com), February 01, 1999.

So, miss priss, it shows a lack of character when one swears? Bull pucky. People like you make me puke.

And what is so special about the wuss contributions on this thread? Buncha bleeding hearts that will be gone in the first five minutes if TSHTF (acronym for "The Shit Hits The Fan").

This country has become more and more pussified during the last century -- buncha crybabies, bleeding hearts, and busybodies. Au contraire, if after TSHTF, all that is left but a bunch of prissy, frigid pussies like yourself, puke!

-- A (A@AisA.com), February 01, 1999.

LOL, ROOTFL, LOL. Just what I expected. Thanks, I needed the laugh. Since when does rudeness and flying off the handle translate into the ability to survive? It is actually much more difficult to control the urge to lash out in anger and frustration. That is control. In a crisis, control of you fear, anger, panic can be very useful.

-- jennio (@@$)$.@##$.com), February 01, 1999.

"However, when I got a grip on the sad reality of earth life, I found myself laughing at the absurdity of it all and have a permanent case of the giggles."

Ashton & Leska, thanks so much. I really needed that!

-- Bingo1 (howe9@pop.shentel.net), February 01, 1999.

BIGGDOG,

I have been poorer than anyone you have ever known. I have concluded that many people are poor mainly because of their own doing. I became successful because of self-discipline. Try it. It works.

A Moral Capitalist.

-- TTF (seenit@ww2.com), February 01, 1999.