Paul, I am an avid reader here, & have posted some *drunk* responses & threads, for around 3-4 months.But I have a question...How can everyone run for the hills, & bail outta the cities? Isn't this IMPOSSIBLE? My gawd, if everyone runs for the hills, won't we just have another *city* in the hills? Minus the buildings & plumbing & streets & companies & work & a *REASON*?

No attacks please, just answers!

Randy

-- PnkPantha (whocares@Idont.com), January 27, 1999

Answers

Hi Randy:

Although I'm not Paul Milne, here's a legitimate answer to your question: 250M people will not "head for the hills". Under any circumstances. No matter what.

When Paul or anyone else suggests moving out of the cities, he (or she) is neither "heard" nor "believed" by the vast majority of people. A VERY small number of individuals will respond, though -- and a percentage of those were thinking of moving to a rural area anyway.

Don't worry. Living in the country isn't the same as city life....it's harder. Lots of uncommitted types can't take it. That's why there aren't any crowds out here....

Anita Evangelista

-- Anita Evangelista (ale@townsqr.com), January 27, 1999.

I agree Randy, But that shouldn't be your concern. Me and Mine should be first rule of thumb. Then how about friends that GI? Anyone in your social group that has land out and away? How about a Millenium get together, if nothing happens you all go home. Had a wonderful time etc. If you don't have any of these options open, prepare as best you can, decide what's best for you within your limitations. It would be nice if we all had gotten it a couple of years ago, like some, but we didn't so make the best of it. like most of us

-- sam (we're@theend.com), January 27, 1999.

Don't worry about the masses. What are YOU going to do? Read the data, study the reports, look at what the Feds are and are not doing, make your own conclusion. If you think there is a 1 in 100 chance the city you are in is about to be "nuked" by Y2K, what is the reasonable thing to do?

-- RD. ->H (drherr@erols.com), January 27, 1999.

Please dont take this the wrong way...but every time we move further out in the country.. people keep following us. I prefer that those in the city stay there. Or... I am going to run out of the space to avoid them.

Many of my family members live in a city or suburb. They either cant or wont move. Even the ones who are preparing.

-- countrygal (dontwant@thecompany.com), January 27, 1999.

Countrygal: I live in the country too, and in my neck of the woods, you just don't come up here wandering around because you may never come back out. People here are different, and they want it to remain that way. It's too late anyway for some of you to leave the city and set up a house in the country and hills. The weather can be brutal and unless your prepared you'll never make it. You should have been settled in, established friendships in the community, and know your surroundings 2 years ago. It isn't easy living here, but I wouldn't trade it for anything. Unless you have family or close friends in the country, stay where your at. The militia in our area will be out in full force keeping outsiders out.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), January 27, 1999.

If I hear another one of you country rednecks say "we don't want you here" I'm gonna puke. Let me tell you something you uppity snots, nobody gave you a king's grant to the hillside. Move your ass over and make room for your new neighbors (who I might add will be as well armed as you).

-- cityboy (aint@no.hick), January 27, 1999.

I have no reason to flame you Randy. i know full well that the majority can not or will not get out. That is not the issue. The issue is that whether they do or not, the majority **WILL** be in that situation and THAT is EXACTLY why it will be so bad.

I am not addressing *EVERYONE*. I am addressing INDIVIDUALS.

Can YOU get out of a populated area? Do so.

I am saying that NO MATTER what is done, calamity WILL strike. YOU have a choice as an INDIVIDUAL. Remain among thousands or tens of thousands of unprepared individuals or not.

Simple choice. The majority will remain where they are. I am well aware of that. And that is a shame. But that is exactly why the consequences will be so severe. You can say to yourself , "the others can not get out, so I won't either." Fine. Die.

I am not interested in what EVERYBODY else can or can not do. NOTHING will EVER persuade the masses to do anything in time. NOTHING. That is why there WILL be panic. ONLY 'individuals' will respond and prepare or not. The only question is whether you want to be in the middle of it or not. Well? Do you?

-- Paul Milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), January 27, 1999.

OK guys 'n gals, step right up the lady or the tiger...

Deliverance today or The Trigger Effect tomorrow.

-- Blue Himalayan (bh@k2.y), January 27, 1999.

To cityboy -- who writes, "make room for your new neighbors (who I might add will be as well armed as you)."

You forget that the indigenous population you're addressing will know the terrain much better than you do. And they'll be many, whilst you're only a few at best. No contest, come to that. Think about the experience of American troops in Vietnam.

I worked in Birmingham, Alabama in 1967-68. One of the guys in the offfice was from a very rural hill county in the northeastern part of the state. He told us that if planned to go back home on a long weekend or holiday he always phoned home ahead of time, to let them know he was coming. Driving in without notice, in an unfamilar car, was not a surprise he wanted to give them. On further questioning, he let on that quite a few home-owned stills were in use there, whose operators lacked finesse (I'm paraphrasing...)

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), January 28, 1999.

From the above posts, it appears that the SAFEST place to be come Y2K will be the major cities. All the kooks, gun-nuts and end-of-the- world alarmists will have headed, heavily armed and well-provisioned, for the countryside to join the religious cults and survivalists. If I move anywhere, it will be from the fringe suburb I'm in now closer to downtown. There are just too many farms to protect, hills to command, trees to hide behind, and rocks to slither under nearby.

-- skeptic (foo@bar.com), January 28, 1999.

Come on up city boy, but you do so at your own risk. By the way, people around here do control who moves in. If they don't like you, or don't want anyone moving in next to them, they make it very uncomfortable for a perspective buyer or soon-to-be owner. They will put a pig pen next to your property line, down wind. Or, they blast rock n' roll music at all hours of the night with the loud speakers pointed in your direction. Or they use haystacks backed-up near your property line and use it for target practice, and it won't be with bows and arrows either. They haul in junker cars, dismantle them for parts, and what's left they use it for target practice. Be careful who you call a red neck and an uppity snot, because if you decide to come up here, a red necked uppity snot just may become your Saviour, but it will cost you.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), January 28, 1999.

Skeptic: Are you saying there aren't any religious cults, kooks, gun-nut, EOTWAWKI people, and survivalists in the city? Please stay in the city where these types of people aren't found. You won't have to worry about gangs, home invasions, drive by shootings, Heaven's Gate leftovers, skin heads, the city is a perfect place to be.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), January 28, 1999.

Hmmm, that's interesting. Those 250 million or so people in the cities will just stay there and starve then? Nah, I just don't see that happening. Seems to me if people have a choice between starving where they are or going somewhere else and eating, I figure somewhere around 100% of them will go where there may be some food. I could be wrong there, but I don't think that many people are that dumb.

-- Noah Simoneaux (noaj@yournet.com), January 28, 1999.

Noah.

Yes Lord?!?

How long can You tread Water?

In the real world, Uncle Sugar will Lock Down the roads and No body get's in or out of the cities.Too bad, so sad. Lots of NG's with their hands on your throttle.Be sure your new pal gives you a wrap around.

Sad but possibly true.

-- nine (nine_fingers@hotmail.com), January 28, 1999.

Old formula was "40 acres and a mule". At 60 plus people per square mile in the US, adding in the fact that at least 3/4 of the US is mountain or desert or water covered, we would seem to be a trifle short of arable land to try to do things the "old fashioned way God intended".

There are about 670 acres per square mile.

-- Paul Davis (davisp1953@yahoo.com), January 28, 1999.

Noah: What makes you think that people in the country have all the food? There's plenty of DGI's here and I'm going to have to battle with them. They'll GI pretty quick, but it will be too late for them. I'm predicting that it will not be pleasant and rosy here. Besides, you'll be picked off in the low lands way before you make it to where I am at. Massive traffic jams, no gas stations open, your city will be locked down. If you plan to head for the hills, you better have a destination, that is if you can get by the locals telling to you go somewhere else.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), January 28, 1999.

The alternative to the cities are plenty, not just the hills. Small towns are actually a better alternative than rural/farming areas or the mountains, you'll need a community to help you survive. But you should have made your move at least 6 months ago. No matter what is said on this forum, at least 90% of people will remain in the cities. A very tiny percentage of the entire population are city people who read Y2K forums, and of those few, fewer still plan to move or have moved. Sad reality. No need to discourage city people from moving out.

-- Chris (catsy@pond.com), January 28, 1999.

Agree with both Chris/Bardou who, together, give the complete picture. Paul, that was a ridiulous post and you're smart enough to know it: was it intended as humor? Sheesh.

otherwise, too much generalizing going on here. There are hosts of variations between regions of U.S., suburbs, small towns and true country within those regions (welcome/not welcome, et al).

As is often stated, the whole thing is up to you as an individual: no one actually cares where you (who are, by definition, a stranger to *us*) live unless/until you actually make the effort to get to know real people in a real area. Then, those real people will judge whether or not you are an asset to them (and you can judge them). End of story. This is getting boring.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), January 28, 1999.

On a lighter note:

Go rural? Run for the hills? Nah. Farm life to me is all cow patties and chiggers and bloody hard work. I asked a farmer buddy once what he does in the morning, and he said: "Well, I milk the cows, bale some hay, then take a look at the combine and see if it'll run OK, collect the eggs from the chicken coop, check on the pigs, sort out the seeds for the planting." "Wow, that's some morning ---- then what?" ".Breakfast!"

I'm a city boy all the way. Come the apocalypse, if y'all are right and civilization collapses, I'm going to get me some henchmen, and become a VILLAIN. From countless testosterone-laden EOTW mad-max flicks, it's apparent that the villain always has the best lines, is a snappier dresser, has bigger guns, and generally has more fun that some sensitive, dudley-doright gel-head cream-puff of a hero(ine). With a little proper planning and some script re-writes, the villain CAN come out on top in the end. Re-writes like: (a) shoot the hero on sight, and not wait to give the complete explanation of "how and why I done it"; (b) shoot the hero on sight, not leave him/her tied up in an impossible-to-get-out-of-and-sure-to-backfire situation; and (c) shoot the hero on sight anyway on general principle.

-- Morgan (morgan96@netscape.net), February 02, 1999.

Morgan: LOL, but, sadly this scenario has been done many times already on this forum, so it's by this time only a third bit rerun. On a related note, i spent some time in calcutta a few years ago, and when i first saw it, my friend and me agreed that it was like being in a mad max movie. Closest thing to an endoftheworld scenario i can think of. Deteriorated shells of houses, with walls gone, and whole families huddled around small fires in the middle of them. Piles of rubble with people picking through it. Smoke in the city streets like pea soup fog in some sections of the city. Quite amazing, and sad-but never anywhere did i see the dashing villain-maybe they had all left too.

-- Damian Solorzano (oggy1@webtv.net), February 03, 1999.

Avoiding Paralysis by Guilt Is Basic to Y2K Survival

-- (watching@randy.sean), February 03, 1999.

GUILT

-- (watching@randy.sean), February 03, 1999.

Damian,

If that scenario had been done before, I hadn't seen it - which doesn't mean much, since I started posting here not too long ago....

Been to Bombay, and that was bad enough...... full frontal assault on the senses.

-- Morgan (morgan96@netscape.net), February 04, 1999.