greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

Have any of you seen this amazing movie? Whenever I think of it, I can't help seeing how relavent it is to Y2K. Some of the scenes of empty cities and "ghost cars" on the highway are downright errie. I think it could be the most Y2K-relavent movie out there right now. If you haven't seen it and want to know I'm talking about, it's a movie with only haunting music and scenes of life, with no characters. The music is by Philip Glass. The "story" is based on the Hopi prophecies about the five worlds. The movie brilliantly constrasts the Hopi way of life with ours and it puts our "normal" everyday life in a whole new light. The word "koyannisqatsi" has an English translation - but I don't want to spoil the ending...


-- Watcher (hopis_are_on_to@something.com), January 27, 1999


It actually has several translations, all of which are offered in the movie...

Great flick. Lots of time-lapse photography, stunning nature scenes transposed with the urban jungle, all set to a remarkable, albeit monotonous at times, Philip Glass score.

Highly recommended. Watch and let your mind run wild.

-- Steve Hartsman (hartsman@ticon.net), January 27, 1999.


Need to re-watch. Thanks for the reminder.


-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), January 27, 1999.

Unspeakably cool movie. Those that have ears to hear, let them hear.

-- runway cat (runway_cat@hotmail.com), January 27, 1999.

I've seen it twice. It's powerful and intriguing. Society is precariously balanced right now, and we're about to come to the first curve in the information superhighway--without a steering wheel.

-- Kevin (mixesmusic@worldnet.att.net), January 27, 1999.

If I had two hours only to explain our world to an infant or an alien then I would show them Koyannisqatsi. I've been real conscious that we live inside a Koyanisqatsi since I was little, but that film has amplified the effect ten-fold. Whenever I see streams of traffic or Airports or large industrial concerns, and especially when I see the poor unfortunate Borg filing into trains at peak hour, I usually internally hear the sound "KOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNISSSSSSQATZZZZZEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" coda.

No-one's ever done a better job of telling it like it is, without speaking a word. And the music absolutely kicks arse.

-- humptydumpty (philglass@thetopofhisgame.com), January 27, 1999.

I saw some of the movie on Teevee - will definirely go and rent it out to watch it properly.

Thanks for bringing this subject up.

BTW have a listen to the Hopi Elders on a recent Art Bell show...


-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), January 27, 1999.

The same person also did a more recent movie of the same type-though more on the spiritual meaning of life, and the craziness of modern times-called Baraka. Beautiful, haunting, sad, frightening

-- Damian Solorzano (oggy1@webtv.net), January 27, 1999.

Baraka has been showing at a nearby cinema for the past five years. What's it about, exactly?

Koyaanisquatsi..I must hire that one from the video store. Enough cool people think it is cool.. therefore it probably is ;)


-- Leo (lchampion@ozemail.com.au), January 27, 1999.



-- Kevin (mixesmusic@worldnet.att.net), January 27, 1999.

Koyannisqatsi = "life out of balance".

(My recall -- wasn't that the subtitle to the movie?)

Just hope the Hopi's "Gourd of Ashes" isn't in the picture somewhere. But I thought Gorby got us out of the nuke problem?

Some say fire. Some say ice. Can you say cognitive dissonance? I knew ya could.

-- (Jor-el@krypton.com), January 27, 1999.


Is there a AB transcript on the Hopi elders?

Spent some time visiting on the mesas. ... the "People of Peace" are very special wise ones.


-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), January 27, 1999.

I started this thread. I thought I'd delurk...

There's a new version of the Koyannisqatsi film score on CD. It's a new recording, this time the full film score is there, whereas the original CD was based on a "shortened" version for vinyl records. I can tell some differences, but it's still great music - like a live version of your favorite album. The CD cover has a desert scene with a lone car. Check it out...

-- Dave Fassett (dfassett@king.cts.com), January 27, 1999.

Koyannisqatsi is a great movie, but the sequel is even better! Powaqqatsi. This is generally about people in third world countries working the land with simple tools. This may be more Y2K relevant, depending on the extremity of your beliefs on the topic....

-- Jeff Fassett (jeff@fassett.com), January 27, 1999.

Then, there is "Yourdoneforitskys". The 2022 black and white movie stars Paul Milne, "a" and WildWeasel showing how to 'acquire the target' while Diane and Leska sweet-talk the local Federales.

Rob holds seminars by Aladdin light on "The Deeper Meaning of our Inner Self Post-TEOTWAWKI."

Andy is the sheriff.

IThinkICan is still digging holes looking for that "last cache."

Flint lives next door, even though he swears that Milne is still insane. Paul Davis and Troll Maria are Milne's slaves, natch.

Music by Kevin with Uncle Deedah on the drums.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), January 27, 1999.


You bring up an interesting point. Which movie is more relavent to Y2K? I can't make up my mind.

Did you know Philip Glass is a Buddhist? That explains the style of music and his connection with people like Ravi Shankar. I think the repetition in the music is part of his message: life is repititous, and when are always seeking after novelty, we miss the deep essense of life, which is closely connected with rhythm. Have you noticed if watching Koyannisqatsi or Powaqqatsi puts into a different frame of mind? I know it does for me. Native cultures around the world have used rhythmic music to put you into a trance and experience alternate realities and alternative perceptions of this reality. I think these two movies do that to a certain extent - they let us experience our world from a slightly different consciousness, and that's what is so cool about them.

-- Dave Fassett (dfassett@king.cts.com), January 27, 1999.

What's really depressing about native cultures is that whenever they come up against our wrong-headed Western technological kick-butt approach, they lose - every time. Only partial exception (gulp!) is Islam. Native cultures have a kind of strength, but also a kind of fatal weakness in this predatory earth system. Like animals. They seem to be pretty but not Darwin-compliant.


-- runway_cat (runway_cat@hotmail.com), January 27, 1999.

That's ok, I'll save you posting the response. Our western civ is toast also.

-- runway cat (runway_cat@hotmail.com), January 27, 1999.

Only the parts within 5 miles of a 7-11 ;)

-- Leo (lchampion@ozemail.com.au), January 27, 1999.

I've been trying to purchase a copy of this flick for about 10 years now, nobody can seem to find one anywhere.

If you like the music, Philip Glass is extremely prolific. I own at least 30 hours of his music. Composers writing vaguely similar stuff range from John Adams to Terry Riley. Off-topic, I know. The Anthem theme from Powaqaatsi is something that will echo in your head for a month.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), January 27, 1999.

Dave - thanks for the info. on the CD. It's weird this, I recently saw "Kundun", a Martin Scorcese movie about the Dalai Lama, music also by Philip Glass - this is a must see - hypnotic, mesmerising, poignant, wonderful etc. (enough!). The music reminded me of the Koyannisqatsi music so I went to the store and founds the CD's - didn't buy them at the time but I'm glad I waited, I'll look for the latest updated CD. Seems like you can order all these movies from Aazon.com - ideally you really need to see them in a theatre with full-on dolby surroundsound(tm) at a respectable volume. The Hopi Elders were on the June the 16th 1998 programme. This is worth taking the time to read.

The Hopi Elders

june 16th realaudio apperance here

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), January 27, 1999.

BigDog, Chuckles.

Make that a DVD flick including a Y2K digital cast of thousands!

Andy thanks for the link. It's prophetic, that's what. That date is my birthday.


-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), January 27, 1999.

For me, the most moving thing about this film was how it ended. Remember that? So sad. Three years later, the Challenger shuttle explodes, in real-time, on national TV. So prophetic.

And S - P - O - O - K - Y . . .

-- Nathan (nospam@all.com), January 28, 1999.

Leo- Baraka is great. Basically the crew took about 3 years traveling around the world filming. No dialogue- it's the third movie in this series-just images. Basically explores the meaning of life, and the beauty and ugliness that go along with. Very beautiful and haunting and horrible all at the same time. If you get the chance to see it, don't miss it.

-- Damian Solorzano (oggy1@webtv.net), January 28, 1999.

Wow I forgot I got the Baraka CD. Plugged it in right now and am listening to Mantra. Baraka is an ancient Sufi word with forms in many languages. It is simply translated as a blessing, or the breath or essence of life from which the evolutionary process unfolds. Baraka tells the story of Earth's evolution, man's diversity and interconnection, and his impact on the planet. Film was shot in over 24 countries such as Brazil, Nepal,Cambodia, Kuwait, India, Tanzania, and Iran. Good music! Will have to see it again. I haven't seen koyannisqatsi but will check the local movie theatres and video stores. Thanx for the info!!!

-- shivermetimbers (zerodegrees@brrrrr.com), January 28, 1999.

Thanks for the link, Andy. GOOSEBUMPS! As for the similarities to NT prophesy, Jesus did say He had other flocks.

-- Tricia the Canuck (jayles@telusplanet.net), January 28, 1999.

Yes Tricia, we are all of the *same* flock :)

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), January 28, 1999.


Yes, the ending of Koyannisqatsi is very spooky and moving. I believe the Hopi prophecy sees this world ending in "fire", "a gourd of ashes", "boiling the seas". Could that final image actually be satellites falling from orbit from Y2K and/or nuclear war? I don't know if that's likely, but who knows what could happen with the satellite's propulsion systems when Y2K hits. What's interesting about Koy is how much it focuses on technology and it's ill effects. That's why I relate it to Y2K. I have very mixed feelings about technology - I used to be pro technology, but as I get older and wiser I'm changing my views.

I've seen the film many times on video, and while I haven't been counting, I think there are about 4 or 5 "movements" in which the music starts slow and gets faster, to reflect the changes that occured in each of the worlds the prophecies talk about. The final worlds are frenetic and show the "true" pace of modern life compared with ancient spiritual cultures. And there's the end of the last world in terms of the music and visuals - it's instant, then comes the exploding rocket. I'm sure someone has analyzed the movie more, but I think it's worth studying it for it's details and structure, because I think there's a deeper story there than is immediately apparent.

-- Dave Fassett (dfassett@king.cts.com), January 28, 1999.

Thanks Andy, for the Hopi link.

What the elders dont openly tell you is ... this ending is NOT set in cement!!! (It just looks that way). One quote ...

... Okay, he says that these earthquakes are eminent but there is no real date as to when these will take place. That big earthquake that was supposed to hit California had been altered, in a way, by the Tibetans who had heard about that and they did a lot of prayers there and they helped in altering the intensity of the earthquake that took place in California. That is, you know, something that we should look for is a large earthquake that would take place. It's going to be real big. It's going to be devastating.

A lot of other people worked on that 1994 earthquake too. Collectively, WE CAN ALTER OUR FUTURE. This I know, with everything in me, and with direct experience. And we CAN alter potential calamaties and earthquakes, but deflecting the intensity, and so much more. How you ask? Again the Hopis have a response ...

...Well, praying....first is praying.....and to go through that path with the Creator. We have forgotten how to walk that path so they need to get on that path to survive.

Try it. It works. (When two or more are gathered ...). Also ...

...  People ... They should start changing themselves and going back to the old ways of living simple lives, of taking care of themselves from the land that is available to them, and from the food that they grow. These are the things that will help you along the way when you come to your hard times. So, the people must make these decisions for themselves.

Honor. All living and inanimate things. Thats where we lost it.

... Absolutely. You can't turn the path around, now, but perhaps what we can do is govern the way we walk down that path and the impact of what we hit. As far as changing it and escaping it, there's no escaping the eventuality...the realities that we're going to be experiencing.

As Hardliner says, were on final approach. We can CHANGE the intensity of the Y2K impact. The duration may be unknown, but the more who prepare, the better off we ALL are. Remember, we are all connected, within a circle of life.


-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), January 28, 1999.

Today's ancient hippie drivel:

The Mahabharata (of which the Bhagavad Gita is a portion) ends with a nuclear explosion in the battle between two warring clans in ancient India. Did they have nukes then? Or is this all "symbolic" mental explosions going on in the mind of a meditating yogi at his instant of enlightenment?

I went to college 10 miles from a hill containing the #2 SAC missile command station, underground in a mountain range I could see from my dormitory. Thus #2 Soviet missile target I guessed.

In the summer of 1969 (after the Senate had rejected the ABM missile treaty), I sat on our hill looking out at that target site and wondering when it would happen. A couple times, either on acid or probably mescaline (great color enhancement for reds and oranges and swirling clouds!) I wondered if I would see what that yogi saw at the end of Maha. "Let's get it over with if it's gonna happen anyway. Let me at least see the fire that takes me." Let's see if this is also a blast into enlightenment.

What I've since come to is that TEOTW is a transformative tool inside each of us whether or not it happens physically. We use it to compare our ideal to the life we are living. (Perhaps a somehow more comprehensible metaphor for the death we all know but deny is coming?) We use it, hopefully, provocatively, to grow our lives into better ones. Clean out old, dead thoughts, and see what comes in new.

Perhaps the nuclear threat was/is/or should have been the same transformational tool.

And what about y2k? We're sure doing the same work together here, at least the first mumblings of it. What kind of world have we here, and what possibilities for changing it on the other side?

Whether or not y2k comes off bigly and squashes billions or not, we can and are using it here as our transformational tool. We would be derelict in our duty to grow as human spirits and human family if we did NOT do this collective/individual inquiry at this time.

I mean, how interesting is collecting a bunch of different kinds of beans and coins and tools? Focus for awhile on basic earth tools and skills we've ignored, yes, and then free our minds to dream again.

If y2k fizzles, we'll at least have BigDog's wonderful movie scenario (preferably capturing the first physical meeting of this online community!). And Paul Milne can do celebrity commercials, like stopping by his local 7-11 for a toasty treat.

-- (Jorel@krypton.com), January 28, 1999.

Not that I usually take non-induction-based-prophesy too seriously, when I hear above the Hopi's "gourd of ashes" I tend to worry about the Cassini project. For those who dunno about it, Cassini is NASA's recent mission to Saturn, luanched on a ricketyold Saturn5 rocket, which is carrying 72 (count 'em) pounds of plutonium in order to power its non-propulsion systems. Thankfully the launch went off without a hitch, (although a Saturn 5 blew up a minute after take-off a month or two later,) but the problem with Cassini is that in order to get all the way out to our beautiful Saturn it has to do laps around other planets in order to attain sufficient speed. And pretty soon-sometime in '99 I think - it has its close encounter with Earth. They're aiming it to come within 455ish km of Oyth, but if they getit wrong by a percent or two (less really) then this bird will re-enter the atmosphere a little, where it will burn up, releasing 72 pounds of vaporised plutonium - enough, according to some experts, to give terminal lung cancer to 2 or 3 billion people. Somewhere on the Sightings.com page they recently had a report that Cassini has had a computer stuff-up - while i've no idea just how bad this stuff up was it was bad enough to get reported but not bad enough to halt the mission or anything. Anyone know about the embedded systems or software running this baby??? Or the Mission control equipment??? This topic probably deserves its own thread, but I put it here because of the "gourd of ashes" thing. Happy happy joy joy, happy happy joy joy joy...

-- humptydumpty (no.6@thevillage.com), January 29, 1999.


Wow, that's scary! That sounds the like most likely meaning of "gourd of ashes". Now the question is, how accurate is the prophecy...Any Hopi's on this board??? ;)

-- Dave (dfassett@cts.com), January 29, 1999.

Heelo All,

check out this Hopi link... is this you, Blue Himalayan???



Two digits. One mechanism. The smallest mistake.

"The conveniences and comforts of humanity in general will be linked up by one mechanism, which will produce comforts and conveniences beyond human imagination. But the smallest mistake will bring the whole mechanism to a certain collapse. In this way the end of the world will be brought about."

Pir-o-Murshid Inayat Khan, 1922 (Sufi Prophet)

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), January 29, 1999.


Warnings about technological catastrophes are more credible when they don't contain obvious errors and omissions such as in yours.

>For those who dunno about it, Cassini is NASA's recent mission to Saturn, luanched on a ricketyold Saturn5 rocket,

One reason a Saturn 5 might be termed "ricketyold" is that the last one was built over 25 years ago. They were designed to launch Apollo missions to the Moon and have never, AFAIK, been used to launch anything else.

From http://www.ksc.nasa.gov/payload/missions/cassini/: "On 8/28/97, Cassini was moved to Launch Complex 40 and lifted to the top of the Titan IVB/Centaur launch vehicle." This proper identification of the launch vehicle is also available on other pages related to the Cassini mission.

>which is carrying 72 (count 'em) pounds of plutonium in order to power its non-propulsion systems.

Why didn't you mention that the plutonium is contained in modules whose outer layers are heat shields designed to withstand reentry heating in the event of an accident? Or that within these heat shields are additional protective impact shells? Or that the plutonium is not all in one lump (so release of all 72 pounds would require failure of all protective shells for many separate modules)?

Perhaps your source of information omitted those details because they would tend to lessen the impact of sensationalist warnings?

See http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/cassini/rtg/doetest.htm for the above and other information.

>(although a Saturn 5 blew up a minute after take-off a month or two later,)

I sincerely doubt this.

AFAIK no Saturn 5 has ever blown up.

AFAIK the most recent Saturn 5 launch was 25 or more years ago.

>They're aiming it to come within 455ish km of Oyth, but if they getit wrong by a percent or two (less really) then this bird will re-enter the atmosphere a little, where it will burn up,

... except that all the plutonium is contained within heat shields designed to survive re-entry, and thus _not_ burn up.

Quote from the second page noted above: "Safety Test Results ... The GPHS Modules survived the high temperatures of simulated atmospheric reentry."

>releasing 72 pounds of vaporised plutonium

Oh? Where is the analysis showing that the plutonium would all be vaporized?

>enough, according to some experts, to give terminal lung cancer to 2 or 3 billion people.

... but only if they actually inhale the 72 pounds, right?

>Somewhere on the Sightings.com page they recently had a report that Cassini has had a computer stuff-up - while i've no idea just how bad this stuff up was it was bad enough to get reported but not bad enough to halt the mission or anything.

You can read Cassini status reports at http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/cassini/MoreInfo/press.html

The sightings.com report is dated "1-20-99". It seems to indicate that the problem which caused Cassini to enter "safe mode" had not yet been identified.

However, the Cassini Mission Status Report dated January 15, 1999 not only says that engineers had already determined why the spacecraft placed itself in "safe mode", but also has a three-paragraph explanation of the cause.

>Not that I usually take non-induction-based-prophesy too seriously,

Are your Cassini warnings induction-based?

- - - - - - - - - -


>Wow, that's scary!

It's less scary when you have more information.

-- No Spam Please (anon@ymous.com), January 30, 1999.

Just bought the new Phillip Glass soundtrack - stunning, awesome, Joe Bob says check it out :)

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), August 08, 1999.

Here are a few more facts related to plutonium in space vehicles

This is some information from The Cassini Debate page at http://www.rain.org/~openmind/cassini.htm

"There have been no previous failures. The plutonium RTG's have always performed exactly as designed."

--Beverly Cook, Dept of Energy, 10-15-97, 10 minutes before Cassini launched with 72 pounds of deqadly plutonium, speaking live to CNN reporter, broadcast around the world. * * * WE INTERRUPT THIS SNOW-JOB TO GIVE YOU THE FACTS:

In 1964, a SNAP 9A satellite failed to achieve orbit, re-entered the upper atmosphere over Madagascar and burned up. Its RTG released its full plutonium 238 contents. It was not designed to survive re-entry. The SNAP-9A RTG "performed exactly as designed" by dispersing plutonium worldwide, nearly tripling the amount of that lethal isotope detectable globally in the environment up to that time. (Hardy Report, 1972)

Cassini's RTG's were designed to contain their plutonium on launch and to the greatest extent possible in an inadvertant re-entry into the Earth's atmosphere on flyby in Aug 1999. But no matter how well designed for containment, no design can keep them from vaporizing and releasing much of their plutonium contents when, if an accidental re- entry occurs, they speed into the Earth's atmosphere at nearly 42,000 miles per hour--faster than a comet. It's worthwhile noting that Cassini's 72 pounds of plutonium dwarf SNAP 9A's 2.1 pounds.

2. The plutonium capsule from Apollo 13 fell into the Pacific. It "performed exactly as designed" by remaining intact when it fell into water, although it's so deep we have no way of knowing. If Apollo's plutonium RTG had landed on a hard surface, according to NASA, it would probably have broken open and released its radioactive contents.

3. A Nimbus B satellite exploded after takeoff from Vandenberg in 1968 and its two Pu RTG's fell into the Santa Barbara Channel. Again, they "performed exactly as designed" by remaining intact when they fell not onto a rocky hard surface (although close to one) but into water. The "design" of modern RTG's depends largely upon the luck of where they land. If they land on water, they're designed to survive without breaking open. If they land on land, they're designed to most likely not be able to remain intact but instead to spread their Pu contents all over the place. Luckily, that hasn't happened yet. Let's listen again to Beverly Cook of the Dept of Energy as she glibly told the world and an ignorant CNN reporter 10 minutes before Cassini launched: "There have been no previous failures. The plutonium RTG's have always performed exactly as designed."

-- jjbeck (jjbeck@aol.com), August 08, 1999.

Thanks for the recommends on this movie. I rented and watched/listened to it this afternoon. It DID have a mesmerizing effect.

I want to give a plug here for the young man at Blockbuster. It was a last-minute thought to check for the movie, and I'd left the name at home on the way to the grocery store. I asked him if he had a movie that started with Kop (my error), and had a nine-inch-long unpronouncable name. That young man didn't let me leave the store until he'd found it. It was a "dial 00" experience.

I didn't really see anything Y2k-related in the movie. It seemed definitely to be a chronicle of our current lifestyle. One week ago this past Thursday evening, ABC began a series of 8 specials regarding much the same topic. I saw the first segment, but forgot about it last Thursday. In the first segment, the commentator (using enough humor to keep your interest) described the simple things we take for granted that have crept into our lives without our noticing. For instance, he points out that at one time we all had rotary phones and thought them fine. Once the touch-tone phones were introduced, however, we lose patience at the time it takes to use a rotary phone.

To describe how "normal" this impatience phenomenon is, the example was given of a fast-order cook. This woman had to "time" eggs, pancakes, hash-browns, bacon, etc. to be done at the same time. Her brain simply "knew" after a period how long each item took to cook and she flipped the food in accordance with this knowledge. The same knowledge has been imprinted on our brains regarding the time to create a phone call. Our brains "know" how many seconds a touch-tone takes, and it "balks" when a rotary phone takes longer.

Now I'm questioning whether it's ABC or CBS, but I think the name of the series has something to do with Brave New World if you're interested in tuning in.

-- Anita (spoonera@msn.com), August 08, 1999.

I was searching this weekend for a source to buy or rent Koyannisqatsi and/or it's sequel. No luck but I did encounter a rumor that a new 'qatsi' might be released soon along with a re-release of the first two on DVD. Can anyone confirm this?

I've seen them both years ago. Would love to watch them again as we try to sense the dangers of and prepare defenses against the stalking-horse of 01/01/00.

-- TM (digiratoX@mindspring.com), August 08, 1999.

You mentioned at the top of the page that there is an english translation to the word 'Koyyanidqatsi'. What is it. Cheers

-- DAN (margaretevans38@aol.com), December 20, 2004.

"Life out of balance" (Hopi)

-- It's (a@Hopi.word), December 20, 2004.

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