I wasn't going to post this, but GOD insisted. About an hour ago I was browsing through the threads and ran across a post that said he was insuulted by the Bible referring to humans as sheep and being members of a flock that could not get along without GOD's sheparding. That really hurt me emotionally, and I turned of the PC to go out and stack some firewood and clear my mind. I came back in the house and my wife told me a boy had just chased a lamb across our back yard and into our pasture. Now I have been living here for fifteen years and never seen a sheep of any description within 10 miles of this house. My wife says the boy told her they had just gotten the lamb this morning. I sat and was thinking on the message herein, that without GOD's guidance we ARE LOST. I debated posting this and decided against it so I turned on the television and what do I see? A teenage boy standing outside a department store holding a sheep on a leash. I hit the channell display and the name of the program was "What Will You Do?" a childrens program. Look around you at the world today, does it appear that man is doing a good job of running this planet without GOD's guidance? Do you disbelieve in GOD because you never hear from him, or want a miracle in your life to prove he exist? Well folks GOD speaks to us all continuously, you just are'nt listening. Miracles occur daily all over the world. Next time you get the chance to visit with a RN in a major hospital ask them. I knew GOD had a purpose for my life because of an event that happened to me about eight years ago. I was running a Cat D-8 bulldozer in an open pit mine working right next to the pit highwall at 3:00 in the morning. The highwall is a sheer 80 ft. cliff that ends at the coal surface. I was working with my back to the wall and had lost perspective on how close to the edge I was in the dark. As I was backing up the dozer suddenly exploded into flames and I slammed on the brakes and killed the engine. I was not burned because the dozer had an enclosed cab. I stepped out of the cab with my fire extinguisher and was shocked to find the dozer was perfectly balanced hanging over the edge of the 80 ft. cliff. Now what do you suppose the odds are of a dozer spitting a one inch hardened steel shaft completely through the main hydraulic pump at precisely the right second to save your life? Synchronicity? I think not.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), January 23, 1999

Answers

P.S. My wife and I have no idea who the boy chasing the lamb is. Like I said we have have been living here for fifteen years and know all our neighbors, he is none of their sons.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), January 23, 1999.

1. There are well-known psychological factors explaining why we tend to remember coincidences and forget non-coincidences. See past issues of The Skeptical Inquirer, some of which are online at CSICOP / Skeptical Inquirer, http://www.csicop.org/si/.

In particular, an article in the September/October 1998 Skeptical Inquirer, Coincidences: Remarkable or Random?, pointed out:

There are two features of coincidences not well known among the public. First, we tend to overlook the powerful reinforcement of coincidences, both waking and in dreams, in our memories. Non-coincidental events do not register in our memories with nearly the same intensity. Second, we fail to realize the extent to which highly improbable events occur daily to everyone. It is not possible to estimate all the probabilities of many paired events that occur in our daily lives. We often tend to assign coincidences a lesser probability than they deserve.

- - - - - - - - - -

2. Since this posting is in a forum whose specifically stated purpose is "This forum is intended for people who are concerned about the impact of the Y2000 problem on their personal lives, and who want to discuss various fallback contingency plans with other like-minded people", what is the connection to that topic? Or is this posting off-topic but not labeled as such?

-- No Spam Please (anon@ymous.com), January 23, 1999.

BTW, in response to my #2, please don't bother giving me the old "_everything_ is related to Y2k" argument. That's just an excuse for lack of discipline.

-- No Spam Please (anon@ymous.com), January 23, 1999.

Spamless,the title of the thread clearly indicates it is of a realigious nature, if you are offended by such the choice to read it is entirely up to you. The word of GOD will not be constrained by a set of manmade parameters, and as a Christian it is my duty and obligation to witness before unbelievers whatever the personal cost. Do you think I for a moment didn't realize that my post would bring retaliation? Do you think I do not realize that this post will cast a defining light on all of my past and future post? I didn't want to post it, but felt and still feel I was instructed to do so.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), January 23, 1999.

Well Spam, I don't know how it relates to Y2K but I'm sure it does and if you don't like it, don't read it.

-- (That was dumb @ spam.com), January 23, 1999.

Nikoli,

>the title of the thread clearly indicates it is of a realigious nature, if you are offended by such the choice to read it is entirely up to you.

The title of this forum clearly indicates that it is for Y2k topics. If you want to post something else, you are quite free to use any of the multiple other forums in which your posting would be on-topic. Your decision to post an off-topic thread in this forum was yours - take responsibility for it.

>The word of GOD will not be constrained by a set of manmade parameters, and as a Christian it is my duty and obligation to witness before unbelievers whatever the personal cost.

So you try to excuse your irresponsibility by saying that "GOD" is responsible instead of you?

What if I posted off-topic in a religious forum, someone objected, and I claimed that I had some supernatural justification? Would that make it all right for me to post off-topic in that forum?

- - - - - - - - - To: "(That was dumb @ spam.com)"

>I don't know how it relates to Y2K

... so you can't argue that it belongs in this forum, can you?

>but I'm sure it does

... oh, yeah, the old "_everything is related to Y2k" argument -- just as I pointed out ...

>and if you don't like it, don't read it.

If you don't like complaints about off-topic postings, don't post off-topic threads.

-- No Spam Please (anon@ymous.com), January 23, 1999.

Spamless, I will pray for you. To all, I am still wondering what the message of the sheep led to the supermarket-dept. store conveys. Was this just a shove to get me to post, or was there a double message here?

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), January 23, 1999.

Hey, guys, calm down.

Nikoli: I think NoSpamPlease's comment is as much geared towards bringing "God" HIMSELF into the thread as anything else. It's rather difficult to argue with the one-and-only MR. BIG (don't mean that irreverently). Invoking God directly in this NG, even if we're convinced He is the cause of any particular experience, shuts off all arguments EXCEPT ranting (see the emerging dynamic on this thread).

NoSpamPlease: I've been as guilty as Nikoli on some of these threads, I suppose, though not directly invoking God. Y2K hits so close to the deepest philosophical-theological bone for all of us that it's almost impossible to excape talking about "spirituality" from time to time, whether Christian, Buddhist, agnostic, atheist, etc. I have been awed at how civil this NG is at bringing this kind of talk into a public space because it is such a lost art in our culture. All right, I'm going blah-blah-blah, sorry.

Look, I'm not trying to split the difference, here, I hope, just saying calm down a bit. Neither of you guys are idiots, quite the contrary.

The rhythm of the threads across the NG slide in-and-out of Y2K news, links, preparation and, yeah, "theology" (heck, Runway Cat's thread today about alien abductions ain't Y2K either lest you think the aliens might be stage-managing Y2K but it offered an authentic opportunity to wrestle with deep stuff ... and maybe it is related to Y2K after all)?

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), January 23, 1999.

I second BigDog's comments.

No need to start a war here. I remember when I first got y2k, my wife constantly complained about my "obsession" and how everything was y2k related. Over the past months her eyes have gotten big as saucers, as she starts seeing the connections. "The Deep Stuff" is definitely not common in our pop culture, so let it go.

--Jim the window washer

-- The Window Cleaner (Micaiah@2kgs.bbl), January 23, 1999.

I apologize to Spamless and any others who suffered distress from my post. I promise you it was not my intention at all to start a war. The thread which prompted this post was read on this board, so my answer is appropriate on this board. I posted this message, not God, and it is MY responsibility. I make no apologies whatsoever for the content and message in the post. They are not intended to disrupt but to enlighten.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), January 23, 1999.

Well, I suppose one could argue that religion is off topic from y2k, then again, y2k will probably cause a lot of people to start thinking about religion.

Nikoli, Thanks for posting this.

What all will happen when y2k arrives? No one knows. But if God exists then He would know, and so He would be a relevant source on y2k. Therefore, this question fits in the forum. At the very least it also fits with "People are the dumbest creatures" question.

Also if Jesus returns around y2k, then a lot of people will have to actually face God, even if they didn't believe He existed.

We will all just have to wait and see.

-- Enoch (knightofyhwh@hotmail.com), January 23, 1999.

Nikoli, thanks for posting the story. I, too, was bothered by the comment you were referring to. I have NO problem whatsoever coming under the leadership of a Shepherd who was willing to give His life for me. Everything He does is for my best good.

-- Gayla Dunbar (privacy@please.com), January 23, 1999.

Nikoli, Gayla, Arc Angel..... Just would love to have all of you as my neighbors by 01/01/00; want to relocate to Tacoma, WA? Granny Holly

-- Holly Allen (Holly3325@juno.com), January 23, 1999.

Indeed, I tremble for the world, when I reflect that GOD is just.

Mike

-- flierdude (mkessler0101@sprynet.com), January 23, 1999.

Nikoli,

>The thread which prompted this post was read on this board, so my answer is appropriate on this board.

I would not have complained if you had posted to that other thread instead of starting a new thread.

-- No Spam Please (anon@ymous.com), January 23, 1999.

Nikoli - "Look around you at the world today, does it appear that man is doing a good job of running this planet without GOD's guidance?... Well folks GOD speaks to us all continuously, you just are'nt listening."

Maybe the problem is that "we" ARE running the planet with "GOD'S" guidance. Maybe the problem is that "we" ARE listening to "HIM." Didja ever think of THAT one, smart boy?

And what about the bulk of humanity that DOESN'T believe in your christian fantasy? Are they doing any better or worse at "running the planet"?

Please take this stuff to somewhere more appropriate. Thank you.

-- non-believer (always will be @always.was), January 23, 1999.

There are no Atheists in foxholes.

-- Confessing Tongue (hot@hell.com), January 23, 1999.

God is seen God In the star, in the stone, in the flesh, in the soul and the clod. -Robert Browning, "Saul"

-- RD. ->H (drherr@erols.com), January 23, 1999.

Granny Holly, thanks for the offer but us Tx. boys don't take cold weather too well:) and thanks to all of you who came out in support of me.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), January 23, 1999.

Nikoli, Great name ,mine was the same when on Atlantis. Concerning your question to Spamless,you were asking,what does the leading of sheep to the supermarket means. In my knowledge of Synchronicity, the words say what is to done soon. You mentioned the tv show for children,"What will You Do " this is for you. And again what will you do? Will you take your (children )- friends,neighbors to the supermarket (store of plenty) food,water and supplies and have them stock up? Again, What will You Do??? I would ask the boy to return. Furie...

-- Furie (furieart@dnet.net), January 23, 1999.

I am a long time lurker here (10 months) and very infrequent poster. How can I post my plans and questions concerning Y2K without bringing up God? Nothing that I do or am apart from God has any meaning. All that I think about the future is informed by my belief in God. I cant help but bring him up in the conversation. I am not preaching when I do mention God. (But should you want to know about my great Father, sit a spell and I will tell you about him and the wonder of being a sheep under his care.) I cant really make any plans regarding Y2K or the future at all without taking Him into account. How can I then speak of those plans without revealing my partner in them? To do anything else is to proclaim myself as originator and master of my future and my life.

-- BC (notmyown@boughtwithaprice.com), January 23, 1999.

Hi Furie, sounds reasonable, but I haven't got a clue who the boy was. I guess I'll have to visit some of the neighbors.

B.C. We could have worse problems:) big grin.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), January 23, 1999.

Just a quick word to "non-believer"

Recent events in my life:

My poor mother is getting sued for a totally frivolous lawsuit by her sister for $400,000. My mother is 54 and probably doesn't have net worth over 100k. The lawsuit is bogus and it threatens to destroy whats left of her life.

My brother got his nose broken and stabbed in his side trying to break up a fight between two men he didn't even know.

A guy I used to know in Queens , NY was shot to death for a carton of lucky strikes two weeks ago.

My police officer buddy just finished the paperwork on a triple homicide case. A homeless man murdered a Husband(43) Wife(38) and their Daughter(14). Why? He wanted their car.

Look in the newspaper soemtime "non-beleiver". Look at Kosovo. Read about the millions of people in africans communities killing each other for land and power that basicaly amounts to nothing. Take a good hard look into the ICU at any major downtown hospital and ask the doctors on staff how many of those patients are ther becasue of a violent crime? Take a good hard look at yourself in the mirror and ask yourself whether or not you look like the kind of person who would fit into God's plan.

You think this is God's Plan? Your either very sick or you never studied christianity and you are talking directly out of your rectum. Either way I hope you keep your posts to yourself from now on..."smart boy".

-- (anon@aa.com), January 23, 1999.

I feel a whole lot better knowing that the self appointed forum police are here to protect me. It's not like Nikoli was discussing flower arrangements. How can anyone discuss TEOTWAWKI without bringing up the Big Guy? I don't believe in Christianity, but if everyone believed in the Chritian set of morals, I'd be a lot less worried about our future. Of course if most Chritians followed their own rules the same statement would apply. I just hope that none of the zealots in the audience decide to do some old fashioned Christian out reach (Salem, The Crusades, The Inquesition) after the fall.

-- d (d@dgi.com), January 23, 1999.

Hey, all others who might be offended-don't read this...OFF TOPIC

Hey Nikoli,

That "still small Voice" of God, Who knew that the kind of water I wanted to buy for Y2K was NOT at Costco today and caused me to start off down the road toward the local supermarket instead-well, I in my infinite wisdom (NOT) overrode His direction and went on to Costco. Guess what? He was right! I submit that for those of us who follow Jesus, it is not a matter of coincidences happening to any one Christian who misinterprets them as guidance instead of random occurences, but of a pattern thereof that clearly points to a Planner Who is working with his creation toward an end that is clearly spelled out in the Bible. Hang in there!

"God is dead." - Nietzsche "Nietzsche is dead." - God

-- John D. McClure (jdmcclu@mediaone.net), January 23, 1999.

John... God gives you shopping advice? I was wondering why he hasn't done anything important for a few thousand years. He's been busy helping people to make more efficiant trips to the store.

-- d (d@dgi.com), January 23, 1999.

d. I cannot for the life of me understand how the Salem witch trials or the inquisition could be born out of The Testament of Jesus Christ. Christ is the ultimate pacifist and his entire gospel is about love, compassion and understanding. The fact that men could so twist his word only goes to show how imperfect man is.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), January 23, 1999.

It's always a bit worrisome to me to hear people asserting that God speaks to them, that they know what He wants, that others must listen or else. Gary North is such a one and what he would have this nation become is truly frightening. See Quotations.

Any "spiritual" epiphany that brings a man or woman to disrespect others, to insist that others believe what they believe, to do as they prescribe, to avoid what they proscribe, seems to me to reflect not goodness and creativity, but instead a great contempt for the infinite diversity, complexity, and beauty of this world -- which is, as they themselves say, His creation. The implication is quite clear, for readers of Milton, Charles Williams, C.S. Lewis, or for that matter, J.R.R. Tolkien.

We see theocracies now in many parts of the world. I hope none comes any closer. If I had less faith in the common sense of the Anmerican people, I would be very concerned that a budding theocracy is in our midst today, as exemplified just now in this ongoing impeachment process.

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), January 23, 1999.

God helping with the shopping would only be silly if it were a hard thing for God to do, or taking him away from the more pressing matters of the day. God is the one who knows the stars by name, has a count on the grains of sand, knows the very number of the very hairs on all our heads at any given moment. That this incomprehensible mind would condescend to walk with men, to guide, to love any of them, even calling them sons and daughters, is the deepest mystery.

Yes God is in our Y2K preparations. I do not always understand why He has me preparing in a certain way, why the local grocery instead of Costco, but his hand is upon me as surely as anything in my life. Those who do not know him bump from one seeming random event to another. There is no random bumping for those called according to his purpose.

I know that every can of beans on my Y2K shelf is there for a reason ordained before the creation of the world--to feed my family-- To feed others that God will bring to cross my path. To maybe even feed those that dont know him yet, dont know the wonders of dwelling in his presence, dont know that all the random events of their lives were not random at all.

-- bc (iamnotmyown@boughtwithaprice.com), January 23, 1999.

Tom Carey, I spent my teenage years reading JRR Tolkien 27 times :)
Don't remember details now, but do know they helped me develop an interest in history and the heroic side of man as he battles dark forces. Thanks for mentioning him.

xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxx

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), January 23, 1999.

Nik - Great post! and it's obvious you're not the only one who has had these sorts of experiences.

Isn't it interesting how threatened some folks feel? I wonder if *they* ever wonder why that is?

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is maifest in tem , for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power ad Godhead, so that they are without excuse."

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), January 23, 1999.

Nikoli, To continue; You need not check the neighbors for the boy,but have your wife check the scrapbook/photoalbum on the rack by the table. Have her point out of whom you seek. I have the answer. contact me by email of you need to. Furie...

-- Furie (furieart@dnet.net), January 23, 1999.

Hi Arlin. That was a great scripture. I have another story you might find interesting. As I have posted here before my Grandfather was a country church Baptist Minister. My brother and I were spending the night with them on a Saturday night when I was around 7 years old. We were sleeping in the same bed when I had a terrible dream so I awakened my brother and told him about it. He is 3 years older than me and he remembers this as well as I do. In my dream we were in papaw's church and he was finishing up his sermon, then everyone stood up to sing a hymm. There was an old man in the pew in front of us with his wife and all of a sudden he fell to the floor cluthching his chest and died. Well needless to say I didn't sleep much for the rest of the night and was still kind of shaky when we got to church the next day. We had bible study in a separate room from the adults and didn't come out until after the main service was supposed to be over with. I guess papaw was running a little late that morning cause he was still at it so we quietly moved into the pew and sat down. I didn't notice the old man sitting in front of us until everyone stood up to sing. My heart nearly jumped out of my chest when I recognized him from my dream. Just as the night before part way into the song he grabbed his chest and started falling to the floor, partially turning to face me and my brother as he did. That old man smiled at me as he died. The song they were singing was OH Come Unto Me.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), January 23, 1999.

Nikoli:

As far as burning witches is concerned, look in the Old Testament: "You shall not suffer a witch to live". Jesus said, "I come not to destroy the Law, but to fulfill it". Christianity is not, and has never been, a pacifist religion. We would not enjoy what fruits of freedom we have in the USA were it not for Christianity and its preachers, the so-called "Black Regiment" of revolutionary times. Christ came to set men free, not from sin alone, but free in every sense of the word.

-- Why2K? (who@knows.com), January 24, 1999.

Why2K. I have a different interpretation than you, as I was taught the New Testament was the Lord's New Covenent with man, and all things which went before were washed away in the blood of Christ. True Christ preached Freedom, but not through violence. His essential message was turn the other cheek, and do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Well that's my take on it anyway.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), January 24, 1999.

"Isn't it interesting how threatened some folks feel? I wonder if *they* ever wonder why that is? "

Who is feeling threatened? Considering the next lines from your post, it would appear that you are as well...

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness..."

There aren't too many of us trying to ban the bible. It seems that religions, in general, like to squash anything that they don't agree with. The vast majority of the attacks on our Bill of Rights have been in the name of the Christian God. I'm an artist and a believer in this great nation, so naturally, I am threatened by zealots.

Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear. --Thomas Jefferson

-- d (d@dgi.com), January 24, 1999.

d. The fact that Thomas Jefferson may have been an atheist does not surprise me in the least. The fact that he owned slaves and slept with at least one, fathering a child is a pretty good indication his moral values were a little on the light side. I respect his intelligence in spite of his shortcomings and would not presume to guess at his ultimate fate. Most atheis are intelligent people. I walked away from the church for nearly 20 years after being raised in it because I could not reconcile the Bible with science. Now what I am going to say here is not church doctrine, it is my own personal doctrine which allows me to put my faith in God. In the beginning of human civilization there was no law. Tribal warfare was the rule of the day and civilization could not flourish without laws and governments. These were primitive peoples and worshipped all forms of dieties,objects, animals, celestial bodies, and arcane magics. The Lord realized it was going to take a very stern hand to reign in such an unruly mob, and a pretty good dose of fear. Hence the Old Testament. Well things rolled along for a few thousand years and civilization had got a pretty good toehold in the mid east so the Lord says it's about time I went down and had a word with these folks and updated the scriptures so that they might pass my message over all the Earth. Hence the New Testament. Now what folks don't realize is that the Bible is a work in progress, as is mankind. Soon to be released Testament 3, coming to a continent near you.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), January 24, 1999.

Thomas Jefferson wasn't an athiest.

"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God."

"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever."

"The order of nature [is] that individual happiness shall be inseparable from the practice of virtue."

"Honesty is the first chapter in the book of wisdom."

"My principle is to do whatever is right and leave the consequences to Him who has the disposal of them."

If Thomas Jefferson is in hell, I want no part of heaven.

"I wish it (Christianity) were more productive of good works ... I mean real good works ... not holy-day keeping, sermon-hearing ... or making long prayers, filled with flatteries and compliments despised by wise men, and much less capable of pleasing the Deity."--Benjamin Franklin

-- d (d@dgi.com), January 24, 1999.

"If Thomas Jefferson is in Hell I want no part of Heaven."

I would be willing to bet my bottom dollar you will be rethinking that statement for a veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery long time.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), January 24, 1999.

Nikoli: The strange events in your life, such as your premonitory dream, are shared by everyone that is mentally alert enough to perceive them, at least I know I have. And I am sure NoSpam could point us to the right "verse" in the CSICOP "bible" that would explain them all away with the waving of hands and the use of some technical words like "ridiculous" and "absurd". You say some would confuse these events with synchronicity. I think you mean coincidence. Synchronicity, which is meaningful coincidence, is the proper term for the events you described, and as far as I'm concerned, that is God. I think God is present in ALL of the interconnections in the universe. Although I have trouble picturing him as some wise elder watching down on his flock, I still pray to God, because after all I'm human, and prayer is a powerful form of positive thought.

Although I think the skeptics are wrong in their belief that everythin observable must be explained by the current laws of physics, your belief that Jesus is God is also just that, a belief. Remember that Man wrote the Bible, not God, regardless of where the ideas contained in it originally came from.

So on the one hand we have folks that believe that God does not exist and on the other the ones that think he does. Maybe neither is right. You shouldn't limit yourself by thinking you have it all figured out. Life is more exciting when you realize that it's a mystery.

-- a (a@a.a), January 24, 1999.

BC (notmyown@boughtwithaprice.com),

>How can I post my plans and questions concerning Y2K without bringing up God?

Note that Nikoli's posting that began this thread does not mention Y2K. There was not even a token attempt to provide a connection to Y2K, even though this forum is clearly labelled as a Year 2000 forum.

>Nothing that I do or am apart from God has any meaning. All that I think about the future is informed by my belief in God. I cant help but bring him up in the conversation. I am not preaching when I do mention God. (But should you want to know about my great Father, sit a spell and I will tell you about him and the wonder of being a sheep under his care.)

So if you want to post about God and your belief in God but nothing about Y2k ... post it in a religious forum. No one's stopping you.

>I cant really make any plans regarding Y2K or the future at all without taking Him into account. How can I then speak of those plans without revealing my partner in them?

Note that neither the title of this thread nor the text of Nikoli's posting is about Y2k plans.

-- No Spam Please (anon@ymous.com), January 24, 1999.

d (d@dgi.com),

>How can anyone discuss TEOTWAWKI without bringing up the Big Guy?

Nikoli discussed neither TEOTWAWKI nor Y2k.

-- No Spam Please (anon@ymous.com), January 24, 1999.

a (a@a.a),

>And I am sure NoSpam could point us to the right "verse" in the CSICOP "bible" that would explain them all away with the waving of hands and the use of some technical words like "ridiculous" and "absurd".

AFAIK, there is no CSICOP "bible".

For those who wish to investigate further, CSICOP ( Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal) has a Web site at www.csicop.org -- CSICOP On-line

CSICOP does _not_ maintain that everything observable must be explained by the current laws of physics.

CSICOP states on its Web site that it

... encourages the critical investigation of paranormal and fringe-science claims from a responsible, scientific point of view and disseminates factual information about the results of such inquiries to the scientific community and the public. It also promotes science and scientific inquiry, critical thinking, science education, and the use of reason in examining important issues.

Explaining things "away with the waving of hands" is characteristic of some of the claimants CSICOP investigates, but not of CSICOP itself.

-- No Spam Please (anon@ymous.com), January 24, 1999.

No Spam. The Lord works in mysterious ways, and has been working through you for the last 24 hours whether you realize it or not. Your continued post to this thread has assured that it remained high on the list of recent answers and maximized it's viewing audience. I was going to let this thread die a natural death but apparently the Lord wants me to complete the train of thought I was moved to post and supplied the direction I should go through you. That direction is apparently how this thread relates to Y2K. I'm going to start off with a few comments on my own personal philosophy and experiences. As I have already said I drifted away from the Church for a long period of time. It was not a happy parting as I was bitter, feeling I had been decieved about the true nature of God, and indeed even denied his very existence for quite a while. In spite of my disbelief my life was saved from certain death twice by a higher power intervening at the critical second. The dozer episode I have already posted and the other was a drag race where I was driving a 69 dodge charger 440 mag. rt against a 69Z-28 camaro and a gas tanker pulled out in front of us. I had just hit 3rd gear at 5000 rpm and was travelling at roughly 100 mph with the Z a length behind me. It was night and neither of us saw the tanker until we were amost into it. He had just pulled out of a station and forgot to turn on his lights. I freaked out and slammed on the brakes, knowing I was dead anyway. Somehow my car turned 90 degrees to the right and moved over into the other lane with the nose of the Z up against the pass. door and pulled his car off onto the shoulder with me. A split second before I hit the trailer in the rear axles the car rotated back to the left and pirouetted around the rear of the gas tanker still doing in excess of 70 mph. The Z followed me through and we slid down the highway for another 150 yards or so before coming to a stop. All four tires were peeled off the rims on my car from the sideways slide but other than that the only damage was a scratch on the Pass. door from the Z's bumper. I never moved the steering wheel through that whole thing the car was steering itself. The boy driving the Z-28 was named Butch Maghehy and he was killed in a drag race less than a month later in Longview Tx. My point here being that even though I was enraged with God to the point of denying his very existence he still believed in me enought to intervene twice and save my life from my own foolishness. If he has that much Faith in me, the least I can do is return the favor.

If you have done much bible reading you are aware that God exist outside of time, and is able to see and affect events all along what we percieve as a linear stream simultaneously. Man is given free will how to live his life but it is lived within the constraints of of one small segment of the picture that God is looking at. Now as I posted earlier the Lord has already delivered two Testaments to man. Both of these Testament were delivered at critical periods in mans evolution both technologically and spiritually. We have arrived at the critical point where the third testament will be given to man. y2K is but a long foretold event in the book of Revelations and a warning to prepare for perilous times in the near future. Most people assume that the Book of Revelations is about the end of the world much as the mistake TEOTWAWKI for the same thing. The world does not end here. The lord harvest a lot of souls, fully three quarters of the Earths population to be exact, but the remainder are given the Third Testament of the Word of God and civilization continues for another 1000 years.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), January 24, 1999.

I have business to attend to today and will answer any questions reguarding my closing post tonight. Thanks, Nikoli.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), January 25, 1999.

For a fresh perspective on the CISCOP information-control system, read R.A. Wilson's "The New Inquisition." Wilson has also written on the topic of synchronicity.

As for the connection to "God" or christianity: I am not a christian, and synchronicity is the mister bubble that I bathe in each and every day. I happen to practice buddhism. Some few synchronicities in my life use buddhist symbolism, some do not. I have no way of knowing if these meaningful coincidences proceed from Gods, ancestral spirits, ghosts, pixies, the collective unconscious, buddhas, bodhisattvas, or my holy guardian angel.

My experience as a former christian, former pagan, and former hyper-rational reductionist, leads me to believe that whatever mind is orchestrating these synchronicities is only too happy to fit these miracles and revelations to the belief system of the experiencer. I wouldn't call it "God." If you get a string of lamb/sheep images when you've been thinking and feeling deeply about the God thing, it could be simply The Larger Mind reflecting and answering your own concerns. The message is not "Down on your knees - I am The Lord!" the message is, as always, "You are not alone. We're here, and we hear you." If you're already in a christian belief system, you're going to interpret it according to that, and the images you get will reflect your concerns and preoccupations. Maybe it's like radio, and you are "tuning into" a christian "station" with lots of lambs and trumpets and scrolls and what not.

I have absolutely no use for the murdering, psychotic desert god of the old testament (read Leviticus). And the christian track record for torture, censorship, genocide, etc., speaks for itself (If you don't want people to "bash your religion," by calling it for the nonsense it is, don't foist it on us, or try to use it to influence politics. Go to your closet and pray, like the man said). But I'd have a hard time getting through Y2k without the synchronicities.

E.

-- E. Coli (nunayo@beeswax.com), January 25, 1999.