Is it just my paranoia about the gov????? Is anyone else out there reading between the lines of all these gov info articles, that just maybe we, the American Public, are being set up for not only Martial Law Take Over, due to y2k chaos, but also, possible Chemical/Biological "Terror" from within rather than from foreign sources??????? Has anyone else considered the possibility, that our "Trusted Leaders", could be planning to do us in, in the guise of "Terrorist Attacks", using the Y2K Chaos as a cover??????? You see, I've had no faith or trust in our government's policies for some time now, and I'm wondering if part of the reason they are trying to get us to believe now, that they are doing such a great job of taking care of the "computer bug", therefore we don't need to prepare for problems, is for the very reason of catching most of the public unaware and therefore much easier to "control".........I'd really like some feedback on this......Is it just me???????........ Am I just being overly paranoid???????

Sandy

-- Paul & Sandy Stambaugh (patches96@worldnet.att.net), January 23, 1999

Answers

Sandy, It is not paranoia when someone IS after you.

Lets eliminate *all* the unknowns and just look at what is fact today.

I, you, we all pay at minimum 30 cents out of every dollar we make in one form of tax or another. For some of us this is up around 50 cents.

I bring this up not to go off on a tax tangent but to point out to you that the government is ALREADY out to get you- NOW - TODAY.

You don't think so. Just stop paying your taxes.

I don't need to imagine what might happen in the future to believe that we might have an oppresive government and that it will very probably get worse.

Greybear - who doesn't like anyone else's hand in his pocket (it's already too crowded with MamaBears hand)

-Got dependants?

-- Greybear (greybear@home.com), January 23, 1999.

Paul and Sandy. A little paranoia is a healthy thing. Yes our government has a hidden agenda. They always have had and always will. If you look at the history of our government they don't exactly have a sterling record on leveling with the public, or of having our best interest at heart. I think they have made some serious miscalculations though, as in the best laid plans of mice and men. The mother of all mixmasters is about to descend on them and us in the form of Y2k.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), January 23, 1999.

Sandy,

I believe you are suffering an affliction known as:

Existential Paranoia; When you think something is out to "get" you.............and it really is!!!

c

-- c (c@c.c), January 23, 1999.

Thanks for the feedback.......somehow, after all the reading I've been doing on this forum,I didn't think it was just me.......however, after a while of trying to sort through all the garbage the gov puts out there, now and then I begin to wonder if I'm being too paranoid.

My husband and I are trying to prepare the best we can afford, and some days I almost feel I'm going crazy.....but I know a lot of you feel the same way......It's tough trying to prepare for something, that you don't know how intense or how long it's going to last, or what if anything we consider normal today is going to still be there 1,2,5,10 yrs down the road........I'm in the process of turning my dining room into a garden......I figure if it's inside, I have the advantage of less bugs and varmits(both two and four legged), and hopefully therefore, better yeild to help feed us.........At least we're in a mild climate and don't have to worry about freezing to death(SW FL), but it may get uncomfortablely warm in the summer :):):) We plan to leave the air off this summer, to try and save the expense as well as prepare physically for the heat another summer.......

Thanks again for all the advice, info, support, and general help from all who post here...... You all help me retain my sanity when I need it the most!!!!!!!!

Sandy

-- Paul & Sandy Stambaugh (patches96@worldnet.att.net), January 23, 1999.

No, you are not being paranoid. Just observant.

If you are Christian, there is a pre-disposed basis for this scenario, as pointed out in the New Testament, particularly Revelations. If you are not Christian, then you may look upon this information as you would predictions from "Nostradamus" or other similar writings (just for study and knowledge sake).

A section of the military is currently using bio-medical chips imbedded in the skin for identification. Seeing as how Y2K is the perfect conditions to usher in the "New World Order" (one world government), due to people's utter desperation to have the convenient society back, most people would accept a government issued ID chip under the skin that contains their World ID number. They would need no other number (drivers license, bank acct, social security, credit card , etc). All of their activities, records, and accounts would be monitorable under ONE number. Now, in the bible, you have the mark of the beast on the hand or forhead. In much earlier days, one would invision a tatooed 666 on hand or head, much like the concentration camps. Now, the biochips make the mark of the beast (recordable number on bio-chip) a true reality. Also in the bible, it says that if one does not have the mark of the beast, that person will not be allowed to buy, sell, or trade. Do you see how the government will be able to require we all be embedded with bio-chips? Since the entire world will have to basically "restructure", and the 17 already existing World Organizations (such as the World Bank, NAFTA, World Trade Organization, World Aviation Organization and the other 12)will finally come into the forefront under the guise of "healing the world", we could definately be given no choice as to refusing the chip if we want to conduct trade, hold jobs, or have credit like we "used to." I, for one, am a Christian. I would not submit to this scenario, even if it means death, which under these type situations, would be preferrable in my estimation.

The world organizations are already in place, though have not had wide control or acceptance in the midst of little countries trying to remain independent. What will bring this together? Y2K. With failing economic, social, and physical structures being severed by Y2K events, the opportunity for the world government to step in for the "world's repair" would be well facilitated.

The bio-chips are already being used. Your number is already here. Already, just try getting ANYTHING without a social security number. Loans, rentals, homes, cars, jobs -- ALL REQUIRE social security numbers. I got mine when I was 12. My children were not allowed to leave the hospital 9 and 6 years ago without having the social security number documents filled out and returned to the hospital administration.

As for introducing the bio-chip idea, the government will try to smooth the public nerves by touting that the "new system" is failproof. Nothing could be safer. No one can steal your credit cards, license, ss no., etc ever again. We have a cashless society established, of which most were trying to figure out how to get to the cashless society without our protests up until now. We (I in particular) like to have something in my hand - hard cash - after a hard projects work. A bio-chip system would allow that we would scan in for our timeclock at work, do our hours, scan out, and go home. At the end of the week, the "funds" for our weeks work would be transmitted electronically to the "bank". We want food. We go to the store, shop, and check out. We "pay" for the food by scanning our bio-chip into the system, where our non-existant "money" is deducted from our account.

Think all this is science fiction? It has been written about for hundreds and hundreds of years. That is why the bible is written in metaphors and imagery; so it could be read and perceived in an understandable way, until we got to this point and time in human existance. Even if a person is not Christian, one has to give credit to the study of the parallels in the New Testament to current events.

Also about the bio-chips....... since "government" WOULD NOT allow me to bring my children home unless they were assigned their "number", what would make you or anyone else think that putting a chip in your child would be any different? They already use this system for animals, and the industries are clamoring for it in human use to "cut down on fraud". It is true that you have to really hunker down and do research in the government files to get this information. You won't find much of this information on the front pages. Wall Street carried a blip about the sale of the bio-chip stocks booming after the initial release.....large companies were anticipating it and SUPPORT IT.

There are hundreds of facets to Y2K that collectively can be mind-boggeling. Explore as many as you can, but keep your feet on the ground about it. That is the only way to make rational decisions that will benefit you.

-- Mr. Kennedy (y2kPCfixes@MotivatedSeller.com), January 23, 1999.

People have wondered why Clinton has been so desperate to hang onto office instead of resigning like Nixon or any honorable politician would do. (Not saying Nixon honorable or that "honorable politician" is not an oxymoron.

After all, if he resigned, Gore would pardon him and Hillary, and Gore would keep on the path of more spending more control, etc., that the Clintons, especially Hillary, is so fond of.

So why does he hang on? He will still be in office on 2000-01-01. He's got a shot at being dictator for life!

-- a (a@aisa.com), January 23, 1999.

--a Can you think of a more befitting "Anti-Christ"? He is reasonably intelligent, charismatic, and for some reason, despite the obvious tendency to lie once in a while, has a good deal of the existing world leaders giving him their full support and credibility.

Interesting. And yes, he will be there when the rollover rolls over us....

-- Mr. Kennedy (y2kPCfixes@MotivatedSeller.com), January 23, 1999.

Re Embedded chips, and all that stuff.

If things get even worse when that stuff is implemented, there will be a big black market for chips cut out of people; IDs cloned, just like cell phones' were; peoples' eyeballs ripped out to faciliate building a plastic eye with the pattern to pass retinal scan systems; chopping off hands to get the fingerprints in pristine condition (rather than just lifting prints off something held); full facial masks to fool the facial parameter metric systems; etc.

Right now -- do you know that right now, yuppies, that your little "chirpie" car alarm transmitter code can be intercepted, recorded, and used later?

Of course all this is (will be) against the law.

-- a (a@aisa.com), January 23, 1999.

Frankly, they can keep their chips and put them where the sun don't shine........I'm not interested, don't need any, nor do I want any!!!!

I knew the impeachment deal wouldn't fly......after all, the Bilderbergs "hand picked" Clinton back in 1991......their not about to let him go down the tubes!!!!!!!! Why else would he have gotten re-elected????????

And as I said a couple of days ago re: Koskenin......how can anyone expect him to be honest with us.......Liars don't hire Honest people to work for them !!!!!!!!!!!

Sandy

-- Paul & Sandy Stambaugh (patches96@worldnet.att.net), January 23, 1999.

Hey Sandy "Frankly, they can keep their chips and put them where the sun don't shine........"

I can just see it now at the check out line, everyone bending over and having their asses scaned a la Jim Carey, using the BUTTOMETER (tm) portable scanner everywhere you need to spend a penny (ahem).

Of course in Clinton's case they would scan his head as he has s**t for brains as we all know...

Andy

Two digits. One mechanism. The smallest mistake.

"The conveniences and comforts of humanity in general will be linked up by one mechanism, which will produce comforts and conveniences beyond human imagination. But the smallest mistake will bring the whole mechanism to a certain collapse. In this way the end of the world will be brought about."

Pir-o-Murshid Inayat Khan, 1922 (Sufi Prophet)

"We're doomed I tell ye, doomed!"

Private Frazer, Dad's Army, Walmington-On-Sea Home Guard, 1939 (Undertaker)

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), January 23, 1999.

someone done been after me all me life.....but it warn't no one I couldn't handle.

First Momma said it was the Boogie Man.

Then my high school buddies said it was the Narco Man.

Then my co-workers said it was the Tax Man.

Now all these folks I've never seen in my life say it's the TEOTWAWKI King Kong Godzilla Thing From Some Planet We've Never Heard Of.

None of 'em got me yet. Mighta nipped my heels a bit. But I sure ain't runnin' around like Chicken Little over a little bit o' heel.

-- Daniel Boone (bubba@goober.net), January 23, 1999.

Andy --- ROTFLMAO, thanks.

Mr. Kennedy --- I'm at least as intrigued, as a Christian, as you are in, shall we say, the prophetic possibilities of Y2K. However, TEOTWAWKI will break down technical civilization for a long period of time. Where are all these chips going to be made and where are the machines going to be trucked to read them, the goods manufactured, etc? Your scenario is much more convenient if Y2K didn't exist.

Point: there is another strain in prophetic scriptures that could just as easily fit with a failure of most technology and a return to a far more primitive world "system". Y2K is nonlinear and discerning the patterns spiritually as Christians post Y2K will be very challenging, not as simple as we might think.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), January 23, 1999.

Daniel,

It amazes me how you can be so calm about Y2K, when the National Guard...

http://www.ngb.dtic.mil/y2k/impact.htm

...and the Canadian government...

http://www.southam.com/ottawacitizen/newsnow/cpfs/national/990115/n011 5108.html

...seem to be anything but calm about it.

-- Kevin (mixesmusic@worldnet.att.net), January 23, 1999.

Paranoid? No, your antennae just caught the scent is all.

Uncle has been using the buzz-phrase "cyber-terrorism" for a couple of years now to describe the threat of an intentional, widespread computer outage. And everytime I've seen it used, the description of the results reads like what you see in the Y2K forums as the standard list of probable Y2K failures. Hmmmm... (antennae flicks)

Back in the eighties when we first started seeing widespread hacker activity, there were concerns about genuine terrorist attacks via computer. But a lot was done then to help eliminate the threat, But something's changed in the last few years. There's almost confidence that "things will happen by *this* date". Strangely enough, 01/01/2000 is the presumed date. Hmmmm... (another antennae flick)

Is it paranoid to think that a government that's so far behind on the curve that it can't guarantee a modest chance of Y2K success, wouldn't start working on a smoke-screen to cover it's incompetence? Especially when that government seems to speciallize in incompetence from the top down? Hmmmm... (antennae erect and scanning)

I don't see a plot but I do see a bunch of people who've grabbed onto the "cyber-terrorist" catchword to play that favorite game of government types: "Cover Your Ass". After all somebody's got to be blamed for whatever mess occurs and for the costs of all the Y2K fixes. Why not create a "Cyber-terrorist bogeyman" to blame it all on? Then come 01/31/2000 the populace might not be out, pitchforks and ropes in hand, searching for government officials to present their "greiveances" to. Hmmmm... (antennae frozen fully erect in alarm)

WW

-- Wildweasel (vtmldm@epix.net), January 23, 1999.

Just in case you have not figured it out yet...you are not being chased by anyone, you have already been caught and The System owns you. I presume you have a credit card, a mortgage, or maybe just an auto loan. If it is true that you are indebted to anyone then you are a slave, they gotcha already. They do not need some super anti- christ figure (if Christians would read the Bible they would have discovered that, "there are many antichrists." The System is the Beast and "Great will be the fall of it."

-- Mark Hillyard (foster@inreach.com), January 23, 1999.

Kennedy: I think you are taking the Bible to literal. Read between the lines. The 666 system is already here in the form of the world financial system. Ever try to buy or sell anything with the help of the world's monetary system? The mark of the beast is our financial account numbers. "In right hand" refers to handing our number to a merchant (credit card). "In forehead" refers to reciting it verbally, as in telephone or online ordering. And like someone said earlier, the biochip system will be much to complex to institute now or post 2000. I believe what we are now using is the system referred to in Revelation. Or at least its a great synchronicity.

The idea of Clinton being the anti-Christ is one that has popped in my head of late. The "fall" or "mortal wound" may have been the impeachment. And true to prophecy, it looks like he is going to "rise again".

As for all the UFO/alien talk on this thread, remember what Vallee said "If it turns out that the alien phenomena is extraterrestrials visiting us in space ships, I for one will be very disappointed. I think it is something much stranger". And Streiber, who said "Maybe this is what the force of evolution looks like to the conscious mind". I myself am starting to wonder if anything exists at all other than our minds.

-- a (a@a.a), January 23, 1999.

Mark of the Beast....It's everywgere you want to be. There is no such thing as unsecured credit when dealing with the BEAST

-- Elijah Prophet (everywhere@nowhere.net), January 23, 1999.

*ahem*

1. if you'll go back and look, the antichrist makes his grand entrance from inside the (3rd)Temple on Temple Mount, in Jerusalem. There ain't no 3rd Temple yet folks. he is also capable of accomplishing supernatural feats.

ergo: Billy Jeff Clinton is not a nice person, but the antichrist he ain't.

2. the 'mark of the beast' cannot be taken involuntarily or unknowingly - ALL of the people who take it must do so willingly and with the full knowledge that they are forsaking God in doing so. No such thing has yet occurred.

ergo: the mark doesn't yet exist - to claim otherwise is merely a continuation of yet another small part of the gnostic heresies.

Arlin

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), January 23, 1999.

Thank You for all the responses........at least now, I KNOW I'M NOT THE ONLY PERSON OUT HERE WHO THINKS LIKE THIS........so many times, when I open my big mouth and say something about my feelings re the government, I get negative responses and told that I am being ANTI- AMERICAN.......I was beginning to think maybe I was the odd one.....but you've all restored my faith in mankind......just as I thought, there are some really naive people in the world today, but there are also still some intelligent beings too.....Thank God for the INTELLIGENT ONES !!!!!!!!

Sandy

-- Paul & Sandy Stambaugh (patches96@worldnet.att.net), January 23, 1999.

Since I owe the bank for my car, they can come and get it. The tires will be missing, the tank will be filled with Clorox and sugar, and a gallon of paint down the oil tube. My credit cards are ran up to the hilt, but who cares, no one will be using their credit cards anyway. I owe a mortgage, and just got notice of a foreclosure. Couldn't pay my mortgage cause the boss man said to go home and wait for the dust to settle. Sorry about the house being burned down, the dog knocked over the oil lamp and we nearly escaped with our lives. In the meantime, when the dust settles, I'll be at my Uncle Billy Joe Bob's ranch, see ya, and oh yeh, here's the key's to your burnt down house.

-- GettingEven (GettingEven@lastlaugh.com), January 23, 1999.

You've found out!

I just felt like saying that, but it seems like the government is more capable than they ever let on to be.

There is probably an entire section of the government that will be ready to be installed when the rest of the government crashes because of y2k.

I suppose Clinton could become the Anti-Christ, but the temple needs building pretty soon. I think the mortal wound is going to be an actual physical wound. That would give the Anti-Christ the look of being truly powerful.

I really do wonder just what the government will do. The Roswell incedent is an example of the government hiding information from the people, and a lying President just shows us that he probably learned it from his lying government.

Read Revelation, and then go back one book and read Jude.

-- Enoch (knightofyhwh@hotmail.com), January 23, 1999.

Stacey, you are not being paranoid. I think the most frustrating thing is that we know they (the infamous "THEY") are lying to us, but we have no earthly clue what the details are. It's not like a child saying he didn't break that vase; we know that vase will be broken soon and we don't know if it will be an accident or planned and just how exactly the child will cover it up or fix it.

And I'm so glad you decided to plant a garden!

Jeannie

-- jhollander (hollander@ij.net), January 23, 1999.

"I, you, we all pay at minimum 30 cents out of every dollar we make in one form of tax or another. For some of us this is up around 50 cents. "

Fifty % is much too low!! You have to include guv waste, guv caused inflation, guv mandated red tape, guv caused pollution. Guv...ad naseum!

These were also the biggest causes of the dissolution of the other evil empire.

Tax is more like a minimum of 50% for low income people and 60 to 80+% for the middle class.

-- fly . (.@...), January 24, 1999.

Sandy writes:

Am I just being overly paranoid???????

The ulterior governmental motives you describe are entirely possible, so it is not paranoid to consider those scenarios. Paranoia is more when you think that you (as a specific individual) are being given special attention as a worthwhile surveillance target.

I'm in the process of turning my dining room into a garden.

Hydroponics is the best way to go since you can grow up to 7 crops per year. For a hydroponic supplier, check out www.wormsway.com they have a Tampa office. Alos articles and products are at www.coolandunusual.com/y2k/y2kstore/y27twok/hydro.html .

At least we're in a mild climate and don't have to worry about freezing to death (SW FL) but it may get uncomfortably warm in the summer

Florida is a perilous state to live in! Think about it. Environmentally and in many other ways. It's up there with New York, Illinois, Louisiana, Washington, and California. And a Florida lawmaker estimates the state will have $1 trillion in legal expenses due to y2k which is about 11% of the US 98 GDP (as reported in San Diego North County Times today, page D-1). This includes litigation from traffic casualties secondary to signaling malfunction for example.

We plan to leave the air off this summer, to try and save the expense as well as prepare physically for the heat another summer.......

Energy cost is only the mildest concern.

Mr. Kennedy writes:

A section of the military is currently using bio- medical chips imbedded in the skin for identification.

Hawaii is requiring visitors' pets to have a chip implanted and go thru a 4-week quarantine.

As for introducing the bio-chip idea, the government will try to smooth the public nerves by touting that the "new system" is failproof. Nothing could be safer. No one can steal your credit cards, license, ss no., etc ever again.

These are compelling advantages in a world with those who seek to achieve malicious destruction.

A@aisa.com writes

If things get even worse when that stuff is implemented, there will be a big black market for chips cut out of people; IDs cloned, just like cell phones' were;

I don't think so, a big difference between personal identification and phone accounts.

peoples' eyeballs ripped out to faciliate building a plastic eye with the pattern to pass retinal scan systems;

This is surreal fantasy; if the iris or retinal structures were to be replicated, it would far simpler to work from images than necrotic tissue.

chopping off hands to get the fingerprints in pristine condition (rather than just lifting prints off something held);

This is a B.S. comment, as the skin tissue immediately begins decomposition on severance, and again it would be far easier to record structural data in vivo.

Right now -- do you know that right now, yuppies, that your little "chirpie" car alarm transmitter code can be intercepted, recorded, and used later?

This is also untrue since most modern security remotes use rolling codes.

Andy quotes:

"We're doomed I tell ye, doomed!"

okay, then what. How about changing the signature message.

Dan Boone is the only voice of reason so far.

Wildweasel looks right on target as the 'government' is not a monolithic entity but a chaotic assemblage of various splinter groups trying to maintain the status quo.

Mark H is spot on with the credit card observation.

a@a is accurate with the mark info, but the chips are gonna happen anyway. And it is true that when the aliens do come it won't be just for a picnic.

-- Jon (jonmiles@pacbell.net), January 24, 1999.

Just a note. This was very interesting reading. It's amazing to me that we all seem to have very simular ideas on future events. For the record. My friend's brother is part of the elite forces in the army. He has one of those chips in his jaw. They told him that the chip just has his name rank and serial number. My Question is Why? No hostile country will have the readers, nor will much care about the Geneva Convention. The only reason that I can see for these chips, is for positive ID after death, by our own forces.

-- sam (we're@theend.com), January 25, 1999.

Sam

I would be very interested in talking more with you re your brother and the "chip".......please e-mail me @ same address.......

Thanks, Sandy

-- Paul & Sandy Stambaugh (patches96@worldnet.att.net), January 25, 1999.