Do any of you seriously think we should activly be workingon some sort of "bomb" shelter?Or do you think if it gets that bad we should just "give it up? Not too much time to make up our minds. Do they still have these shelters in places like the courthouse basements? after seeing the `symbols`that are displayed for these for so many years, we could see them everyday and forget about it. Anybody have any thoughts on the subject? puurfect

-- puurfectcatnip (puurfect@webtv.net), January 21, 1999

Answers

Hi puurfect:

Here in the midwest, we have tornado or storm cellars -- that double as fruit and veggies storage when not in other use. A shelter doesn't have to be against nukes or bombs to be a handy and useful addition to a household.....hey, I've even heard there are people who use their basement storm cellars as rec rooms....would be a nice selling point later down the line if y2k is a fizzle. And, if we get a 10, it could be a fruit cellar, a storm cellar, and maybe a bomb shelter.....

Anita E.

-- Anita Evangelista (ale@townsqr.com), January 21, 1999.

Never give up! Fallout shelter construction is a straightforward matter, and most people outside of major target areas stand an excellent chance of survival if they can secure space in one when the time comes. The shelter signs that are left from Civil Defense days point the way to dark, unsupplied, possibly non-existent shelters-that-were, so forget about them - build your own in your basement, or in an earth-covered culvert if no basement. Apartment dwellers, does your building have a basement? Perhaps the buildings' owner might make space available there (though you'd undoubtedly be required to make it accessible to everyone in the building). There are a great many plans extant on the Internet for building shelters - download and print now, while there's time.

The danger of a nuclear attack upon this country is greater now than at anytime in the past... and I am not refering to a single, isolated terrorist incident. China now has the capacity to hit targets in the U.S., and Russia is simply not to be trusted. The stories about the sad shape of the former Soviet Union, while true, are a smoke screen. The Russians have been diligently manufacturing new long-range ballistic missiles (did you wonder what that 6 billion or so dollars we "lent" them was being used for?), and have a fully-operational nuclear submarine fleet. Our nuclear fleet now cannot "launch on warning", as they could do before Clinton took the nuclear launch codes away from them. Additionally, the Russians don't depend upon computers nearly as much as we do. It would be foolhardy to assume that they would not use to their advantage any Y2K woes our military apparatus might experience.

As I have stated in a previous post: Communism is dead, but not all communists are...

-- Why2K (who@know.com), January 21, 1999.

Read the next thread "Economic Collapse." by Paul Milne. Pay particular attention to the part about Russia. These folks are beyond hope, and have absolutely nothing to lose. They still have those nukes, and twenty thousand Tanks. With the United States out of the picture they could roll over Europe in a week. I was going to wait until later in the summer to construct my family shelter, but with the escalation of tensions in Bosnia I no longer feel so confident the Russians will wait until December to strike. The utter bleakness of their situation means they will need to consolidate their gains in Europe as quickly as possible.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), January 21, 1999.

Nikoli..Would I be intruding too much in your privacy by asking about your fallout shelter plans? Do you have "plans", such as blueprints, or do you have a basement? Would be interested in hearing more!!

-- Barbara Harpole (BARHAR1@webtv.net), January 21, 1999.

Barbara, no we don't have a basement. I'm having to build from scratch. I am still looking at shelter plans for ideas, but basically what I am doing is digging a big hole with a backhoe and pouring a 15x15 slab as the bottom. Underneath this bottom will be a 500 gallon septic tank to hold waste and contaminated water. I am going to put some peat moss in the tank and install a vent pipe that will protrude out of the ground to help cycle the water faster. The #4 rebar in the floor slab will tie into the cinderblock walls which will have #6 rebar running vertically through them and the air spaces filled with cement. The outside of the walls will be coated with wateproofing. Another poured slab will form the roof and double as the bottom of a water holding tank, sort of like a small swimming pool which will cover the entire roof. This pool will be two feet deep and covered by plywood and plastic, which will be covered by a layer of activated charcoal, sand and gravel. Then by a foot of dirt. Cross timbers and old drill pipe covered with wire cattle panels will be under the dirt to add strength. I am putting a double door setup kind of like an airlock for an entrance with a showerhead to rinse off contamination before entering the main room. This will drain to the septic tank under the floor. All incoming air will be fan forced through filters to remove radioactive dust. The fan will be powered by deep cycle marine batteries. I intend to design the interior layout like an RV with max shelf space and fold up beds and table. Like I said, Im still fine tuning the design but this is what I'm leaning towards right now.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), January 21, 1999.

Puur -

personally I don't treat it as a high priority - as Anita noted having a basement/root cellar is the real priority, and additional mass can be added to mitigate any effects of fallout...also realizing that any nukes that were targetted and succesfully launched (unlikely due to lack of y2k compliance on the part of hostile military forces) against this country would: a. have a better than even chance of going off at the wrong time (less likely) or not at all (more likely). - can you say 'no maintenance for several years'? and b. have a better than even chance of landing somewhere *other* than where they were aimed. - poor maintenance again....

Nik - maybe I'm not understanding your design clearly but I think you might want to be careful not to allow overpressure from your septic system force contaminated air back through the drains into your living area...or are you filtering the septic tank air vent as well?

Arlin

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), January 21, 1999.

Arlin. I wasn't going to put a drain in the living area, only in the airlock, which would double as the bathroom. Incoming air would cycle through the living area first, then through airlock to exhaust. I hadn't planned on putting a filter on the vent pipe but it sounds like a good idea, Thanks for the suggestion, Nikoli.

-- Nikoli (doomsday@y2000.com), January 21, 1999.

To all who consider a basement for a shelter : CONSIDER THIS FIRST ! Should you be living in an apartment and you have joined together as a group to ride this Y2K situation out. Why would your group want to place valuable food items and water in the basement along w/batteries and all the stuff all of us want to have to survive??? HAVE we all over looked the sewer systems of buildings. The ---- comes up if the systems don't work,right into the basements,dah ! So my small suggestion would be locate your food and water at the highest floor of the building. Why , harder to get to if there was trouble/riots etc. Then each room could hold seperate items of importance. Keep the batteries at the highest floor and use solar panels to collect that free sun light. Also locate the containers of stored water that will be used as solar HOT water at windows w/the most sun light. Perishable food items be located at the back of the building w/o sunlight or within the middle rooms w/o sunlight warming up the building. I hope you see where I'm going w/ this ? Good luck to You all Apartment Dwellers.... Furie...

-- Furie (furieart@dnet.net), January 21, 1999.

It's always a good idea to have such a shelter. The Russians are still a threat, albiet a smaller one, even with Y2k hitting them too.

The Chinese are simply our enemies (oops, trading partners). They have ICBM's that can now hit the West Coast of the US, and they have decent accuracy, thanks to Clinton and Loral Corp (they gave them better guidance and satelite technology). Post Y2k, the Chinese have the biggest WWII-era navy in the world, and most of our fancy ships will be out of commission due to electronic failures.

Look for the book "Nuclear War Survival Skills" and get it ASAP. Available from Oregon Inst of Science & Technology, POB 1279, Cave Junction, OR 97523. $12.50 for one copy postpaid, 5 copies $45. It's also available for more money from several of the big survival products companies.

I highly recommend this book; it's one of the best in the field.

I'm vulnerable to even a single missile aimed at Wash DC as a demonstation, or a "accidental launch", since I'm 80-90 miles downwind of that cesspool. :) Needless to say, the shelter has been getting work done on it, even though it's not done yet.

-- Bill (billclo@hotmail.com), January 22, 1999.

CLearly time again to list the two best resources on Nuc survival available:

"Pulling Through" by Dr. Dean Ing ISBN (If I were abit more organized).

"Nuclear War Survival" (or close) Cresson Kearney Available on line ahd in book form.

I haven't heard a question asked they don't answer.

BUT::: FAIR WARNING!!!! The first half of Dr. Ing's book is fictional (the lessons are buried just deep enough you don't see the soap box or teh chalk board) You MIGHT just like it as a book!!

Chuck

-- Chuck, night driver (rienzoo@en.com), January 22, 1999.

OK "Nuclear war Survival SKILLS" it's by Cresson Kearney.

cr

and do the HOTBOT search and you should find it on the web, or we had it referenced on the NG about 5 months ago.

-- Chuck, night driver (rienzoo@en.com), January 22, 1999.

This site has excellent information on nuclear war, shelters, and a link to Cressey's book:

-- Why2K? (who@knows.com), January 22, 1999.

OK, the board doesn't like my tags! Here it is again:

http://www.xmg.com/nuclear.htm

-- Why2K? (who@knows.com), January 22, 1999.

Get those books. Don't forget to make a few Kearney fallout meters, if you don't have a geiger counter. Waste and hygene procedures are important, and those chemical air-drying units would be good, because the humidity gets stifling in a shelter. You can also make a Kearney air pump or three before you even start digging.

Fun for the whole family!

Don't even think about designated "fallout shelters." THE U.S. HAS NO CIVIL DEFENSE PROGRAM. Apparently, it meant a reduction in Washington's high-pork diet, and we couldn't have that. Those "fallout shelters" will be mass-graves.

E.

-- E. Coli (nunayo@beeswax.com), January 22, 1999.