Yourdon forum "Troll of the Year" contest - Polling station now opengreenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread
And the nominees are:
Marie (not technically a troll, but calls herself one)
Jerry (may be an alias for Chittum?)
Uncle Deedah (oops! scratch that last one...)
-- a (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 15, 1999
Gee I'm honored.
In response you can have the "I made the most inefficient space on the TimeBomb2000 forum" award.
-- Adam (Oscars@MTV.communists), January 15, 1999.
Forgive me for asking, but I am new. What is a troll? A spin Dr? I am sincerely curious.
-- Sue (email@example.com), January 15, 1999.
An electronic mail message, Usenet posting or other (electronic) communication which is intentionally incorrect, but not overtly controversial (compare flame bait), or the act of sending such a message. Trolling aims to elicit an emotional reaction from those with a hair-trigger on the reply key. A really subtle troll makes some people lose their minds.
xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xx
-- Leska (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 15, 1999.
>>>Trolling aims to elicit an emotional reaction from those with a hair-trigger on the reply key. A really subtle troll makes some people lose their minds.<<<
Also to use up a lot of "bandwidth". We have 157 replies to "Adam's" initial troll. So far.
He doesn't get much response over on the c.s.comp.2000 site. They just blow him off.
-- sweetolebob (La) (email@example.com), January 15, 1999.
My vote would be 1. Adam; 2. Deano; and 3. Marie. I would have voted for JBD as No. 1 but he seems to have disappeared from radar.
-- Old Git (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 15, 1999.
Thanks Leska. No more time wasted on this guy. Or any of his/her realtives either. I do have to say that it has been educational.
Diane, if you are listening, I believe that you are too valuable an asset to the site to waste any more on this.
-- Sue (Conibear@gateway.net), January 15, 1999.
Old Git - Thank you kind sir. I, too, am honored. If being labeled a 'troll' means you're actually working on the problem, then you have nailed me right on! I don't post here to get peoples dander up, I post here to voice my opinion on these issues like everyone else on this forum. I do, however, appreciate your vote.
Is there and unwritten rule somewhere that says you can only post here if you believe we're screwed?
-- Deano (email@example.com), January 15, 1999.
I am listening Sue, thanks. And you are correct.
Humm. Should I go back to the National Guard, FEMA or ... yes, in honor of the upcoming State of the Union address, it's time to focus on ... the White House web-site.
Deano, honest opinions are always welcome, in addition to successfully finished Y2K Project Managers. We all have much to learn from one another, and miles to go before we can sleep.
Just know, I really, REALLY want this to be a "bump in the road." Problem is it has the look that the road is about to rise, and meet us in the face.
BTW, a, my vote goes to Jimmy Bagga Doughnuts for shear longevity and the unrelenting witch hunt actions. Fortunately, I didnt burn at his stake. He did, at one of his own creation.
Hope Washington D.C. learns that lesson too, for all of us.
-- Diane J. Squire (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 15, 1999.
Sue & SOB, you're most welcome. Dictionaries are satisfyingly helpful. As a relative Net newbie I've starting using this one:
If any of you find URLs for other good newbie-assists, will you kindly post them? TIA
Ashton & Leska in Cascadia, miles o' ropes left to learn ;-D
xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxx
-- Leska (email@example.com), January 15, 1999.
Jimmy Bagga Doughnuts gets my vote.
I don't think Adam and Deano are trolls. Jerry and Chittum didn't last very long. Maria just doesn't seem to have a very wide range of vision. Randy may have been a little dumb, but I believe sincere. Uncle Deedah seems to be getting more and more bitter over this whole mess.
Actually, I don't even think this name-calling is a good idea. We are not fighting each other, after all...
-- pshannon (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 15, 1999.
YOU PEOPLE ARE SO FULL OF SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS IT IS SICKENING...
YOUR the ones who made this thread go on and on and on...
Blame is on me? THATS BS
-- Adam (BSmeter@everyone.com), January 15, 1999.
I have good days and bad days and truly grumpy ass days. Thanks for giving a poop about your cranky Unk D.
-- Uncle Deedah (email@example.com), January 15, 1999.
At the link marked "About" at the top of the previous page, the provider of this forum, Ed Yourdon, writes:
"This forum is intended for people who are concerned about the impact of the Y2000 problem on their personal lives, and who want to discuss various fallback contingency plans with other like-minded people. . ."
-- Old Git (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 15, 1999.
None of them are trolls. They are people with opinions and minds that differ from others. A troll is a post, posted anonymously, sometimes impersonating someone else to discredit, sometimes to flame, sometimes just to get an emotional reaction from people and watch, for entertainment. But we don't know who the troll is, by its anonymous nature.
All these people (except for Deedah) I would classify more under Polyanna type epithets if I really must give an epithet. "Trolls" are monsters, inhuman fantasy creatures. These people are very real, as real as it gets on the internet. If they weren't, I wouldn't be to you all either.
JBD was definitely not a troll, as I've corresponded in email with him. A confused, hurting man he was for sure.
-- Chris (email@example.com), January 15, 1999.
Just be glad your mom wasn't a Jarhead too (she wasn't, was she?) 'cause then you'd have twice as many grumpy ass days!
Good to see you back!
And a quick note to everyone: Might I be so bold as to point out that recognition (such as any kind of a troll "award") will likely only encourage them?
-- Hardliner (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 15, 1999.
"Is there and unwritten rule somewhere that says you can only post here if you believe we're screwed?
Deano" No Lefty, only if you back up the above statement with some semblance of logic and *not* just extrapolating to the whole y2k problem your own personal Company happy face view of the world.
-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), January 15, 1999.
Sick troll must go to the drug-crazed Chittum/Jerry mercenary self- confessed murderer.
The others aren't in his league I'm happy to say :)
"The conveniences and comforts of humanity in general will be linked up by one mechanism, which will produce comforts and conveniences beyond human imagination. But the smallest mistake will bring the whole mechanism to a certain collapse. In this way the end of the world will be brought about."
Pir-o-Murshid Inayat Khan, 1922 (Sufi Prophet)
-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), January 15, 1999.
A word on the behalf of Trolls everywhere:
Since when did it become immoral to pose questions that invoke harmless internet reactions? Does anyone actually think that a "troll' can subvert someone'e mind by mere sugestion? Is that what all the hard feelings are about? I wonder if thats what they said to Jesus when he went before Pontus Pilate with his side of the story? I wonder if people will ever change... I wonder why it's right for some people to give their opions based on someone else's "facts" and wrong for so called "trolls" to give theirs based on their own logic? Maybe anti-trolls are trying to outlaw logic now... thats the way it seems. I wonder if they wear black and white suits with brass buckles on their hats? Can anyone say... "Puritan" ?? Can anyone say... "Spanish Inquisition"?
Oh sorry, your all busy ganging up on that one guy. I'll wait until you done hammering in the last nail and dousing his wounds with vinegar...
-- Mr. Goldstein (Jew@Isreal.com), January 15, 1999.
Mr. Goldstein my son, you've just hammered another nail in my palm with this misplaced analogy with this...man.
-- Jesus (Upthere@heaven.org), January 15, 1999.
I was always under the impression that heaven was heaven.gov rather than heaven.org. Hmmm, I guess you learn something new everyday.
-- a (email@example.com), January 15, 1999.
Mr. G, Chris,
I think you misunderstand. Read the definition of "troll" as provided by Leska. A troll is one who throws a virtual beer bottle in a cyber-bar then sits back and enjoys the fray. Unpopular opinions are welcome here. They are responded to with varying degrees of courtesy and patience (or discourtesy and impatience.) As long as your input is sincere, regardless of its perceived merit, Mr. Yourdon's forum will respond with sincere feedback.
But if one's intent is to push buttons just to see us jump through hoops, one will be perceived as a troll and dealt with accordingly. It's a fine line. Subtle trolls, such as Adam, are generally given the respectful benefit of the doubt until such time as he proves he doesn't deserve it. BaggaTrolls and Chittums "should" be scornfully ignored. But sometimes it's refreshing to vent one's frustration on their venal heads.
This is still among the most respectful newsgroups online, which still entertains a variety of opinions. For perspective, spend some time at csy2k (comp.software.year2000). But this is still Usenet. Wear a cup.
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." ---Hunter S. Thompson
-- Hallyx (Hallyx@aol.com), January 16, 1999.
Hallyx can go and bottom feed some more too, because like the statement obviously tells us is that no one's opinions are regarded as useful unless they serve to gratify every here one way or another. But when the "virtual beer bottle is thrown" by someone who could care less about damaging your little virtual gonads the entire crew goes haywire and takes what was once a very good question and turns it into a trollesque reason to "vent their misplaced anger" on someone's "venal head"
-- Adam (Don'tneedaCup@kindergartenclass.com), January 16, 1999.
Truth be told, I kinda miss JBD. He was a breath of fresh fart but he kept people on their toes and honest.
-- Uncle Deedah (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 16, 1999.
I prefer the variation "When the going gets weird, the weird just grin."
-- Chuck, night driver (email@example.com), January 16, 1999.
Hallyx, it's a fine line indeed. Call me mushy, call me softy, call me silly, but someone who comes back time and time again and argues his/her viewpoint, no matter how it seems sordid/dumb/illogical/flaming to us, it's still only a differing viewpoint. Some people are just more emotional than others, some are better writers than others, some are more educated, some are more intelligent.
I've worked with the public all my life, and I've been on the internet since '91, spent way too many hours on it. I've met all kinds of people, was flamed, I flamed in returned, argued till morning. In the end, these people with opinions are real behind the keyboard.
I don't view Adams as a troll, nor JBD. I don't agree with their views NOR their ways. They are both younger than me, they both have different upbringing and philosophy, and what's more they're male and I'm female. But still, they have the right to exist and use this forum as much as me.
I personally believe that labelling people "trolls" indiscriminately is dangerously close to censoring people out. I would rather see them being ignored if they don't use proper netiquette or social behavior, or if their philosophy are way out of one's own ballpark. That's a much more powerful incentive to get them to "shape up" than calling them trolls etc.., which only fuel their anger and encourages opositional/defiant behavior. On the other hand, I do believe that there are "trolls" out there, one timers who start ludicrous threads to sit back and watch.
As for Adams and JBD, they represent a HUGE chunck of society. We here are indeed elites, excuse my bluntness. You and I know that we don't find such a gathering of people as the Yourdonites on just any street corner. So the question is, do we really want to help society at large, those who wander in here, be patient with them, rack our brains harder to get them to understand and prepare; or do we simply indulge in our cozy elite click and shut the rest out because they annoy the eyeballs out of us?
(Yes I was speaking from a pedestal, and no Adams, I'm not vulnerable to flames, only to cream pies from Yourdonites.)
-- Chris (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 16, 1999.
The following is Ed's charter for this forum:
"This forum is intended for people who are concerned about the impact of the Y2000 problem on their personal lives, and who want to discuss various fallback contingency plans with other like-minded people. It's not intended to provide advice/guidance for solving Y2000 problems within an IT organization."
As you can see, this forum is intended for those of us having "like mind". It is also understood by most participants that a full spectrum of viewpoints regarding the effects of "Y2K problems" can be benificial in determining how much and what kind of preparation would be in order for our individual contingency plans. In most cases a 'pollyanna' post that is well thought out, has at least some degree of bearing on "Y2K problems" and is presented with any semblance of civility is usually responded to in kind.
On the other hand, 'TROLLS' such as Jerry, little Billy and a very few others are usually 'smoked' forthwith and are of little consequence to this forum.
The danger, as I see it, is coming from a third group which is a hybrid of the first two groups(trolls/pollyannas). Trollyannas, come into our midst with the sole purpose of obfuscation and disruption. They are usually well educated, articulate and in some cases involved with Y2K remediation efforts. Trollyannas do not want to believe their secular god, TECHNOLOGY, would allow our Global Infrastructure to collapse. The refusal of trollyannas to pull off their blinders and look at the larger frame of reference, relegates their view to a subset rather than the entire equation. Even worse, the trollyannas will do their best to convince the newly aware there is no "Y2K problem" and that complacency is preferable to preparation.
If you are newly aware of possibe Y2K problems and you are unsure what to believe, listen carefully to what the most knowledgeable "codeheads", "gearheads" and other professionals of optimistic persuasion have to say. The bottom line, after removing all of the extraneous rhetoric, is "THEY DON'T KNOW". Combine that with the severe warnings coming from other "supergeeks" and professionals and the only reasonable conclusion is to prepare for, at the very least, moderate disruptions of your current lifestyle.
-- c (email@example.com), January 17, 1999.
I like the sound of moderation. But I just can't decide where moderate is on any preparation list that I have seen on the internet. This whole thing is overwhelming to me.
-- (Confused@Outhere.net), January 17, 1999.
c, I must swallow humble-pie. I've never paid particular attention to Ed's charter. I think I read it only once when I first loged on this forum.
Then you're absolutely right. And yes then, this forum is an elite click of like-minded people which must be maintained. Sounds rather righteous, but that's what Ed wanted. I'm not going to shed a tear, there are a slew of opened-to-all forums on Y2K on the net, all (that I've seen) of which are flamefest, chaotic orgies.
-- Chris (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 17, 1999.