This NG is about envisioning the future in the face of a singular event whose configuration is changing, if not daily, at least weekly.

Because Y2K is so BORING (hey, try fixing it if you want real boredom), this NG is often boring. Also, most of us are boring most of the time, moi certainement. Deal with it. Lurk (I did for many months), post (yeah, I know, I'm just in a posting mood these days) or scram (hey, there are rhythms in life and I may scram shortly).

But this NG is part of life, not a diversion from it. There are only a few "real" Y2K voices out there (some individual, some group). This is one of those few.

Counter to the media lie, the people on a NG like this (doombrooad through pollyanna) are the opposite of go-it-aloners, or why post? Broadly, we are holding similar conversations to those which took place < 1776 in the public square because ... things ... mattered. The talk may be ugly sometimes, stupid sometimes, repetitive sometimes, but it isn't smooth ("Slick") or propaganda ("Time").

I'm the first to say Y2K's consequences are unknowable, NOW. But the glacial and dynamic adjustments of this group's consensus over time are more pertinent, if you ask me, than reported percentages of compliance. Taken together, we are successfully envisioning the future. Really.

I'd wager that we (a different "we", sure, as people come and go) are still wrestling together with Y2K on this forum two years from now, as the Net is pieced back together, still envisioning the future.

Why? Because Y2K has already demonstrated a hole in our till-now conventional thinking about the security, safety and interdependence of systems and the way in which individuals/communities should be independent/interdependent of those systems.

And if this NG isn't here then, or is hijacked by bozos along the way, cool, I'll be thinking it through and living it through somewhere else with some of you. I hope.

So, do you GI about this NG?

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), January 15, 1999

Answers

I don't have any insecurities about our National infrastructure. I think it would take a bombing mission more severe than what the US and Britian combined did to Germany in WWII to "cripple" our infrastructure... and not a computer glitch.

-- Joe Camel (foo@barred.commie), January 15, 1999.

Joe Camel I am glad you are so optimistic however I can't get a long distance call to go through half the time (I am sorry circuit are busy right now try again later). The stupid infrastructure barley works now! Also a stupid squirrel shut down our power for 24 hours on the west coast! A semi-colon shut down the phones on the east coast for hours and that was just one problem. With y2k you get your choice of problems millions and millions of them! In any code I have ever written it takes a % of time to test it. We are not going to get that in 99 because there wont be any time left.

if ((fp1=fopen(argv[1],"r"))==NULL){ printf ("%s Error reading file1:\n",argv[1]); exit (0); }

if ((fp2=fopen(argv[2],"r"))==NULL){ printf ("%s Error reading file2:\n",argv[2]); exit (0); } while(!feof(fp1)){ ch1 = fgets(fp1); if(ferror(fp1)){ printf ("Error reading file1:\n"); exit(1); } ch2 = fgets(fp2); if(ferror(fp2)){ printf ("Error reading file2:\n"); exit(1); if(ch1 != ch2){ printf("%s",ch2); } }

fclose (fp1); fclose (fp2); This is what code looks like I hope you have a background! y2k takes no suvivors!!!!! Tman.

-- Tman (Tman@deal-with-it.com), January 15, 1999.

Joe, the irony in your statement is that, unlike a massive bombing campaign that would obliterate and destroy the physical infrastructure, y2k could cripple or make useless much of the artificial infrastructure we take for granted. That is, y2k could cripple inventory systems, delivery and shipping systems, etc.

Unlike Iraq, our cities exist and thrive at their current levels in population because those artificial means make it possible. Our populations have grown and shifted in location because of the advantage of technology.

Cut the ability of that artificial infrastructure by just 20% and we have serious disruptions which will all be different based upon location.

Anyway, getting to BigDog's post... cool thoughts Big Dog.

"Y2K has already demonstrated a hole in our till-now conventional thinking about the security, safety and interdependence of systems and the way in which individuals/communities should be independent/interdependent of those systems."

Excellent point.

I like this NG because of the divergence in thought and the ability to "speak" freely with those who may be going through similar emotions. In a way, this NG is similar to a 12 step program support group.

My thinking has been able to evolve over the time I've spent here. I've gone from someone who looked at the problem with fear and saw an absolute meltdown to someone who looks at the problem with acceptance and the understanding that no one can accurately predict what will happen. So, I don't fear the outcome anymore because I've made the choice to survive no matter what may occur. I'll take it one day at a time.

I'll miss this NG if things go south but I do look forward to fishing with my son, working with my hands more, finding alternate ways to earn a little money, etc. Life is a grand adventure which should never be taken for granted and you've just gotta roll with it, not fear it. If you fear the future then you're already halfway in your grave.

This NG is a great way to get an "attitude adjustment".

Mike ===============================================

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), January 15, 1999.

Yeah, and try using date code scanners when it's a mix of English, French and German. Yummy. With minor changes: ha! (Tman, please debug this for Y2K errors pls):

if ((Milne=fopen(argumentative[1],"r"))==NULL){ printf ("%s You're Toast:\n",argumentative[1]); exit (0); }

if ((Hamasaki=fopen(argumentative[2],"r"))==NULL){ printf ("%s I'm clueless:\n",argv[2]); exit (0); } while(!feof(Milne)){ North = fgets(Milne); if(ferror(Milne)){ printf ("Toast! Toast! Toast!:\n"); exit(1); } Infomagic = fgets(Hamasaki); if(ferror(Hamasaki)){ printf ("Clueless! Clueless! Clueless!:\n"); exit(1); if(North == Infomagic){ printf("%s We're screwed",ch2); } }

fclose (Milne); fclose (Hamasaki)

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), January 15, 1999.

Comparing y2k to a bombing (WWII Allied campaign against Germany) is the wrong analogy. Bombing a country's physical infrastructure is like breaking someone's arm. It messes up one specific area and makes it more difficult, but not impossible, for the person to function. Y2k is like that same guy getting Lou Gehrig's disease. Everything is intact physically, but at the informational level, the signals aren't being sent and received properly anymore. Y2k is informational, not physical. That's why all those claims that the power companies are used to handling hurricanes, ice storms, etc., are meaningless. So what if they have warehouses filled with extra cable and dozens of cherry picker repair trucks? How's that gonna help them solve a non-physical, informational problem? I think I'd rather deal with physical infrastructure break downs. At least we have experience rebuilding that kind of stuff. With y2k, shit, who knows? We have no experience reprogramming half the world all at the same time. We're in uncharted waters.

-- bill dunn (bdunn@snet.net), January 15, 1999.

Is it just me or are all the programmers that GI getting sick of the people that are totally #%%&*ing clueless. All I ask is do some homework on this subject. I have looked at y2k very very closely for 8 months and from afar for 2 years. I dont mean to hack on people because there is no point to it, but go ahead come on take a look. Now what do you see? BigDog thank you for your time. It's people like you that might help wake some of the sleepers up and maybe save their lives! Hey even William Bennett head of the government y2k sub-committee is now saying store some food and water, uh maybe we should listen? BigDog you da man!!!

-- Tman (Tman@theydontgetit.com), January 15, 1999.

Tman/Big Dog - I wish people like you were the majority in management positions of power many moons ago. At least this country would have had a chance of making it and the ripples would have spread to the rest of the world. Not to be.

If anyone else says this BS about "we held together through WW II, we can handle anything" I'll have a good stiff drink - unfortunately this attitude is pervasive amongst the old-timers I speak to about the problem (with a few exceptions from an exceptional few...)

Two digits. A single mechanism. A simple mistake.

Andy

"The conveniences and comforts of humanity in general will be linked up by one mechanism, which will produce comforts and conveniences beyond human imagination. But the smallest mistake will bring the whole mechanism to a certain collapse. In this way the end of the world will be brought about."

Pir-o-Murshid Inayat Khan, 1922 (Sufi Prophet)

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), January 15, 1999.

"More than at any time in history mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness, the other to total extinction. Let us pray that we have the wisdom to choose correctly."

-- mia (woodyallen@.....), January 15, 1999.

"If anyone else says this BS about "we held together through WW II, we can handle anything" I'll have a good stiff drink."

Phew! For a second there I thought you said...

-- ;-) (catsy@pond.com), January 15, 1999.

BigDog/Tman---- I'm a fossil! C++??? or.....VBASIC???? or....?????

cr

ps may not know what it's IN but I still know what it's DOING!

-- Chuck, night driver (rienzoo@en.com), January 16, 1999.

Chuck,

It was just a matter of making the right substitutions and, even then, I blew one of the argv's. Which, come to think of it, is gonna happen to lots of remediated code that doesn't .... quite .... get ... tested.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), January 16, 1999.

Chris --- I'm saying nada, nyet, non, rien ;)

Andy the doombrooder :)

"We're doomed I tell ye, doomed!"

Private Frazer, Dad's Army, Walmington-On-Sea Home Guard, 1939 (Undertaker)

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), January 16, 1999.