I find myself being more and more worried about how much a proof INP files really are. This has been brought up before, but I feel that MAME should have the ability to save the average frame-rate on which a recording was done. As it is now, I could dig up my old 486 SX-25 and beat highscroes that I wouldnt be able to beat on my P2-400. Or, I could slow down my P2 by disabling the internal cache. The general rule with MAME is often : a lower frame-rate WILL give you a higher score, although this does not apply to all games. A good example of frame-rate cheating would be HyperSports and TracknField. I am not accusing anyone of cheating, but I know from experience that on slower computers you get a much higher speed (and thus longer jumps or higher power) on those particular games. Obviously the game-play of just about all arcade games are drastically changed on computers that cant run them on full frame-rate. Consider games that are based on reflexes, a frame-rate of 70% would certainly give you an advantage. Maybee Im paranoid, but I tend to think that quite a few of the scores on MARP should never have been submitted. I have come to a point where I have lost the initial inspiration that MAME recordings used to give me. And the reason is very simple. I have no proof that INP's really are genuine scores, played the way arcade-games was ment to be played.

Jeeees, what a depressive posting! Yeah, I know, but thats how I feel anyway. I hope these issues are solved in the future. If you feel somewhat the same way, please contact the MAME developers and demand some new INP features :)

Frode Gjerde

-- Frode Gjerde (frogjer@online.no), January 14, 1999

Answers

re: Are INP's legit?

I don't disagree with you that INP files allow the ability to conceal low-frame-rate cheaters. Unfortunately, there is just no easy way for MARP'ers to confirm this (yet, anyway).

However, it does sound like there may be some changes being made in the INP file system, as INP compatibility was completely lost between MAMEv34 and MAMEv35b1 due to changes (this was probably due to the changes in the CFG file system).

Maybe Zwaxy can persuade someone on the MAME team to look into AVG FPS logging into the INP file.

The way I see it, AVG FPS is already calculated by MAME (as can be seen when exiting the program). I would think that this information could be tacked onto the end of all INP files that are recorded.

=Angry=

-- Angry (greggg@ix.netcom.com), January 14, 1999.

INPs

All my inps are for real.

No framerates less than 100%. Always start on screen 1. No cheats (of course!!!!)

The only game I didn't use TG settings was sf2, and I post that I used default. If people want to cheat they will.

Back in the TG contest of 1985 I got 80,300 on an arcade Wizard of Wor (yes, the real thing) 8,140,000+ on Punchout (too boring to do now) and 1,416,440 on Dig Dug.

So yes, I'm a bit better with mame, more experienced too. In fact, I'd say that mame is actually a bit harder for games like sf2, because the computer controls really stink.

And I'm older, and I don't have time to burn out on the games all day like when I was a teenager in the summer.

I'll meet anyone with a machine anywhere and play in person. Oh, one more thing, the original arcade Carnival was *EASIER*, mame is much much harder.

I know you could play a slowed down machine, but you do really think Krogman played Galaga slow for over 400 screens??? Do you think I played Dig Dug slow for 120 rounds???

Right. I would never do that because I mastered the game back in early 1983. You are right for games like Track N Field and Hypersports... but like Greg says, the mame dev guys, or even myself for that matter, could easily patch the source and recompile so that framerate is always in the screen.

IT'S NOT THAT DIFFICULT.

-> Mark <-

-- Mark Longridge (cubeman@idirect.com), January 15, 1999.

you said it

well...although i have a crappy machine...i TRY to make it play 95% or over...anythig under is just UNPLAYABLE to me

its sorta DAUNTING thinking that people out there are playing games slower...hell, i am cut out of alot of games coz they just run crap on my machine, ie NEOGEO , mk1, smashtv...

but yeah, i know what you mean

and as for the new frameskipping method and the new inp handling... well, i guess something could be added in there to show what the final recording framerate was when you run mame with -playback...maybe a little info window like on startup of mame :) add details like final score, player and other facts in it

just an idea

Krool

-- Krool (kellyq@ihug.co.nz), January 15, 1999.