Several other threads have mentioned stockpiling antibiotics such as erythromycin, Bactrim (sulfa drug) and ciprofloxacin. Can these be obtained w/o prescription? If so where. If not, what is the best way to obtain them?

-- a (a@a.a), January 13, 1999

Answers

a,

This topic was brought up in a Y2k chatroom and I copied down this address as a place to get prescriptions. It is www.pharmacyinternational.com - I hope this helps!!

-- shivermetimbers (zerodegrees@brrrrrr.com), January 13, 1999.

I forgot to mention that it is my understanding that a dr's prescription is not needed. Good Luck!

-- shivermetimbers (zerodegrees@brrrrrr.com), January 13, 1999.

It's my understanding that some antibiotics are "over the counter" in Mexico. Primarily amoxicillan.

Other, stronger, antibiotics (erythromycin, Biaxin, Cefloxin, Bactrim) are obtainable from Mexican drugstores who have "doctors" who write you a prescription. All you need is money.

-- Bubba (bubba@bubba.net), January 13, 1999.

I have in front of me my copy of Ragnar Benson's "Survivalist's Medicine Chest" {Paladin Press, P.O. Box 1307, Boulder, CO 80306} (which I recommend highly). Through his suggestions, I purchased Procaine G penicillin 100ml bottle for ten bucks from a ranch supply store. The concentration (and quality) is the same as for humans. You can also get oral tetracycline there too [it has to be "cut down" for humans]. One needs to know what one is doing if one goes that route. A ranch/farm/vet supply store is where I plan to do all my medicinal Y2K shopping. . . I live in Texas, and I won't go to Mexico-- even WITH money. Disclaimer: I am not a physician. This is not medical advice.

-- Albert E. Potts (Potts5116@aol.com), January 13, 1999.

Bubba is right. I've purchased amoxicillan and other medication over the counter in Mexico.

Does anyone know a good source for buying Humulin in quantity?

Mike ====================================================================

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), January 14, 1999.

As a pharmacist, I sat here for a few minutes trying to decide if I wanted to comment or not. Since I have concerns about buying in foreign countries or over the net, I felt it best to share them.

First of all, I struggle with the fact that the more laws that are passed in the US, the more restrictive our lives get, BUT I am glad to see that pharmacy laws are in place to protect the consumer. Also, I believe that importing medication from other countries is in violation of FDA laws.

I have personally watched many pharmacists drop pills on the floor and put them back in bottles as well as other "unsafe" handling practices. I can't help wondering if this takes place here, what kind of product can one expect to receive from an international pharmacy that does not operate under the our laws. I would be very suspect. Is there any way to verify that the medications you receive had been stored properly before sent, and that they were not so cheap because they were already outdated? Some medications are absolutely not safe when taken after expiration (a couple antibiotics, penicillin and tetracycline, come to mind. Taking these could cause more harm than good. I was in a pharmacy in Mexico 3 years ago, and saw sitting on their shelf an antibiotic that is required to be refrigerated at all times. It is anyones guess if it had any potency at all or if the molecule had broken down into harmful metabolites.

On a previous thread, it was mentioned that antibiotics should not be taken indiscriminately. They do not work for viral infections, and could, if taken for prolonged or repeated therapy, result in bacterial or fungal overgrowth of nonsusceptible organisms.

That said, I think you ought to try to find a doctor who understands what next year could bring, and obtain legal prescriptions for some items. Be sure to ask them lots of questions about what to look for before deciding to medicate. Also realize that pharmacy law (in most if not all states) mandate patient counseling. Use your pharmacists as a valuable drug information resource. If they won't help you, find another that will.

-- Bill S. (Bill_S3@juno.com), January 14, 1999.

The above info aside, I have found (but not yet tried) a site called medsbymail.com. They claim it IS 100% legal to ship drugs w/o a prescription, but agin, I have done no research, so I can't say that's true. In addition, I believe the meds come from overseas, so, as far as I know, there is no way of knowing if they're safe. On the other hand, they are cheap, so...Just thought I'd add my 3 cents.

-- Warren (WCJaycox@aol.com), January 14, 1999.

Bill S: Thank you for your contribution here. Would you elaborate a bit more on the expiration issue.

If I'm understanding you correctly, some degrade in a way that creates harmful metabolites, others degrade in a way that simply decreases their potenency/effecacy.

Of course we can't all put in the time required to become pharmacists. But I do believe it is possible for many of us to become better informed laypeople when it comes to basic pharmacueticals and

Are there some simple rules of thumb which can be applied here. For example, do all penicillin compounds (Amox, etc) produce harmful metabolites. If so, can we derive simple rules such as (example only) 'Amox should be discarded 'x' months beyond the expiration date?

Also, are there any books you would recommend for those of us who desire to arm ourselves with some basic information on this (I've kept a PDR for years, have recently purchased "Where There Is No Doctor", "Where There Is No Dentist", "Special Forces Medical Handbook" and have now ordered the Merck manual and Gray's Anatomy).

It is important to understand that I am not researching this to become my own doctor. Indeed, I would greatly prefer to have physicians, pharmacists and emergency medical personnel just a phone call away. But in the event that they aren't, I would like to take action now which will increase my odds of responding properly to such emergencies and serious medical conditions.

Thanks .

-- Arnie Rimmer (arnie_rimmer@usa.net), January 14, 1999.

I am an Rn and agree with Bill's note. Most meds do have expiration dates and there is a reason for it! They can be dangerous. Buy a PDR and look up info on any drug you may be needing to store.

-- DAC (Rn@thistime.com), January 14, 1999.

As an RN I applaud Bill's post. I've stated my concerns before on a similar thread.

I've thought long and hard on what to do for my medicine preparations. This is very individual, as everybody's family health is different. So my own preparations, since my family has no serious health problems now, simply consists of over-the-counter medications and well-stocked first aid kit. I decided not to worry about potential future infections requiring antibiotics, but instead go the inoculation route, getting everyone vaccinated as best as possible. (There's a thread in the archives about vaccination.)The chances of harming my family or myself with expired antibiotics or with wrong dosages/bad formulations etc. is greater than that of catching a fatal infection when good hygiene/quarantine practice habits are maintained. Many infections will resolve on their own in time with good nutrition and nursing care (mom's kind of nursing care), and to help that I stockpiled vitamins. (Vitamin C and E strengthen the immune system for example.)

For those with current long-term physical/mental ailments requiring prescriptions, simply tell your doctor that you are stockpiling for Y2K, and if he/she is not receptive to it, then look for one that will understand and agree to help you stockpile. For insulin requiring refrigeration, stockpile it as late as you can.

-- Chris (catsy@pond.com), January 14, 1999.

Arnie,

To clarify, all penicillins (including amoxicillin) will break down into compounds which can cause severe allergic reactions even in those not allergic to penicillins.

Yes, you did understand me correctly regarding expired drugs. Some do simply lose potency, while others can become more harmful. Regarding rules of thumb, unfortunately I am not aware of any. I picked up this information during my years in pharmacy school, and don't remember it being in one concise place.

Expiration dates are dates that the manufacturer can guarantee potency and stability of the product IF properly stored. However, if you have ever looked inside a manufacturers stock bottle, you would not notice any change in the medication the day after the expiration date. One can only speculate as to how long past the expiration date the product is actually good and this could vary between different medications. I don't know how they actually determine individual dates but, given today's litigation happy society, I would guess the dates would be conservative in nature. How conservative is anyones guess.

Today I asked my local drug information center if they could locate any journal articles that have studied this. I spoke with the director who said she would have some students look at it next week. If I find out information, I will pass it along.

It sounds like you have a fairly significant library already. If I were to make a couple recommendations, I would recommend Facts & Comparisons which is available as a hardbound (printed yearly) or loose leaf (updated monthly) edition. Both are pricey. Publisher's number is 1 800 223-0554. You might try to locate Peoples Pharmacy by Joe Gradon (sp?). I haven't seen it in a long time, but remember it being pretty good for lay people. He is still around as I happen to see him on TV a few months back. I therefore assume it is still in print.

Hope this helps.

Bill

-- Bill S. (Bill_S3@juno.com), January 14, 1999.