the Amish are *way* aheadgreenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread
"Aren't the Amish quaint." [sarchasm]
They don't have to rely on anyone else.
We have come to rely on the technology that may be our undoing.
-- Grizzled Programmer (email@example.com), January 11, 1999
Don't ya just love time warps? Lots of puzzle pieces, with lots of "how to" clues.
-- Diane J. Squire (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 11, 1999.
Unfortunately, there is one and only one area where the Amish have failed in their preparation, and it will probably be their downfall if the worst case Y2K scenarios come through: their refusal to fight. All the preparation in the world is worth nothing if you are not willing to recognize this necessary evil.
-- Jack (email@example.com), January 11, 1999.
Jack, you're right about about their refusal to defend.
It is unfortunate.
-- Grizzled Programmer (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 11, 1999.
It is a sad thing because they will be the first to be picked off, many people nowadays are ruthless. I wonder if the Amish will change their way of thinking about this or if they are resolved to the fact that their whole community will perish.
-- bardou (email@example.com), January 11, 1999.
You forget that this "refusal to fight" is in a military.
You ALSO forget that the younger men (under about 21 or 22) are NOT necessarily in the community yet and are NOT bound by any pacifism testimonies (if these exist).
And these younger men are able to shoot with interesting acuracy when we are talking deer.
(If I remember correctly)
-- Chuck, night driver (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 12, 1999.
Perhaps some of them can shoot, and maybe a few will even have guns. I doubt that will be enough to save them for long against many others with guns.
-- Noah Simoneaux (email@example.com), January 12, 1999.
Living in a county with some Amish enclaves, I'll comment on this. Most if not all Amish homes do have several firearms. These guys do hunt very successfully without using all the bells and whistles the average hunter employs. In fact they're almost too successful at hunting, because the deer population in their favored hunting areas are much lower that the rest of the county.
They use simple, open sight, bolt action rifles (30.06 Springfields seems universally popular) or 12-gauge pump shotguns and they do not waste ammunition. If there are armed conflicts between mobs of hostile outsiders and our local Amish communities, my money is on the Amish.
Someone did mention that Amish do not fight in any military. Very true, they do not serve under anyone else besides their God. But start messing with them and you'll be reminded that they follow the Old Testament, not just the New Testament.
-- Wildweasel (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 12, 1999.
Thanks, Wildweasel! That is great news!! Everything that I know about the Amish comes from that "Witness" movie that Harrison Ford starred in back in the 1980s, so I guess it kinda shows....
(P.S. What does "Check six" mean? Just curious....)
-- Jack (email@example.com), January 12, 1999.
Maybe I can shed some light on how the Amish will react to any invasion of their homes. I am a member of an Amish/Mennonite church and, yes, we are non-resistant because we learn it from Jesus in the Bible. We believe that we are to act the same way He did - He never fought back and He rebuked Peter for cutting off the ear of the centurian and put the ear back on. We not only don't fight in the military, but also won't fight in ANY situation. Now, according to man's wisdom, that is foolishness. But we trust God to protect us from evil. We feel that we are OK either way - if we are killed, then we believe that God will take us to heaven if we are believers in Jesus Christ. If we live, then we don't want to sin by harming our fellow man. I respect other's beliefs and hope that all of you will respect ours.
I do think that it's rather ironic that we, who are used to a simple, plain way of life and being mocked for it for years, are getting the last chuckle as those in the world are scrambling to mimick our ways now.
But I pray God's blessings on all of you and hope you can prepare quickly - both materially and especially spiritually!
-- Mary (Beachyfe@hotmail.com), January 12, 1999.
If I didn't read the Januay '99 article in Wired Mag about the Amish, I wouldn't have believed that Mary is one of them. Even though I live an hour away from Lancaster Co. and regularly go there for the past several years, and have read their publications about their way of life.
The article interviewed an Amish woodshop owner, from the Old Order clan. His shop was equipped with all modern tools, rigged and powered by kerosene, and there is a picture of his daughter, in Old Order Amish garb, sitting at the company's computer doing office work. There was also a picture of an Amish wife, from the Old Order, sitting in the garden outside, talking on a cellular phone.
The article is really worth reading. I knew the Amish weren't against technology and were very careful to chose what they incorporated in their lives from "outside", and made sure they weren't "connected" with wires to the outside, but this really blew me.
After reading the article, I was left with the impression that they will not fare as well during Y2K as I first assumed, recognizing how much they so depend on kerosene and other fuel for their local economy. But still, they are certainly the best prepared to survive at the basic level, both mentaly and materialy.
-- Chris (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 12, 1999.
Jack, my guess is 'check six' means 'make sure there's six rounds in the revolver.'
-- Jon (email@example.com), January 12, 1999.
NO NO NO!!
CHECK(ing) (your) SIX translates as looking behind you as something REAL UGLY might just be sneaking up on you and measuring you for pan size!!!
too many pilots in the extended family
-- Chuck, night driver (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 12, 1999.
You hit it on the head, Chuck! If you're flying around paying too much attention to what's going on inside the cockpit, the outside world may provide an extremely nasty, possibly fatal, wake-up call. If your buddies want to make sure you're paying attention, they call "check six".
When I do a "six check" I get a good look all around me and I react accordingly. It's the same for Y2K. I use it to say "Look around at your situation and act accordingly."
Take that look around every so often and be sure to notice the little things moving around far out there. Pretty soon they can grow into great big problems, threateningly close to you. Make certain your plans are fluid enough to allow you to make reactive changes while still getting your mission (getting thru Y2K) accomplished.
Check six! WW
-- Wildweasel (email@example.com), January 13, 1999.
-- Lisa (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 13, 1999.
Thank you Mary, for your comments.
As a young child, my first exposure to religion was The Friends, known as Quakers to most. There are many conscientious objectors to the use of deadly force, for many reasons. And not.
Preparing ones spirt is equally as important as getting the supplies in order. Following the lessons of the great peace makers, down the ages, is another lesson in uncommon sense.
So much to learn ...
-- Diane J. Squire (email@example.com), January 13, 1999.
There are many different "types" of Amish groups. Some use buggies, no electric, no phones, and very minimal technology. There are others who use some technology, but power them with gas. I am in a church that uses cars, electric, phones, and computers, but not TV, radio, or movies. We feel that it's OK to use technology that assists us in a positive way, but not any that is a detriment to our Christian lives. We do homemake all our modest clothes and head coverings, though, and raise and preserve much of our food. Guess you could say that we're sort of "middle-of-the-road" in Amish/Mennonite circles.
But we still hold to the same Biblical doctrines as all the Amish and non-resistance to evil and violence is one of them.
Hope that helps clear up the confusion. BTW, although we have computers at home, we don't allow the Internet, so I have to come to the library to use it and make these posts.
God bless you, Mary
-- Mary (Beachyfe@hotmail.com), January 16, 1999.
Thank you Mary for explaining the Amish/Menonites better. I've always been facinated and admire them (you) greatly. I love the homemade food and goods they make (my kitchen cabinets and pots/pans are Amish made, the quality is unbeatable), and I love going to eat in the homy atmosphere smorgasborgs (sp?)restaurants in Lancaster.
Although the Amish are very religious and I'm not, I find them to be very tolerant and open minded as Christians, and I respect that greatly. I'm a peace loving person myself and don't own guns, although I would defend my family with whatever means I had were they being attacked (call that mother-bear instinct ;-) )
Peace to you,
-- Chris (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 16, 1999.